IRC logs of #tryton for Sunday, 2008-12-21

chat.freenode.net #tryton log beginning Sun Dec 21 00:00:01 CET 2008
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CIA-53tryton: matb roundup * #658/Make translation of title of invoice report independent from invoice.type: [chatting] AFAIS I provided the patch exactly as pointed out on http://code.google.com/p/tryton/wiki/HowtoContribute.02:26
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CIA-53tryton: ced roundup * #658/Make translation of title of invoice report independent from invoice.type: [resolved] On 21/12/08 02:26 +0100, Mathias wrote: > > Mathias <mathias.behrle@gmx.de> added the comment: > > AFAIS I provided the patch exactly ...12:15
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snowchhi irc!12:31
Timitossnowch: hi12:39
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Cristi_anhi14:19
Cristi_anuninstalling a module feature will be added ?14:20
cedkCristi_an: it is not a priority14:23
Cristi_anoki...14:23
Cristi_anthe fifo stuff ?14:24
Cristi_anand lifo and some average cost ?14:24
Cristi_anmethod14:24
Cristi_anwhen do you think that will be added14:25
Cristi_anapx14:25
cedkCristi_an: average cost is already there14:25
cedkCristi_an: FIFO will come in one or two months14:25
Cristi_anexecellen news14:25
Cristi_anby then i wil be ready with my pyhotn14:25
Cristi_anthx for the python channel tip14:25
Cristi_anthere they respond to any question...no matter how dif or easy is14:26
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snowchlooking through the code base, there seems to be two patterns "execute" and "execute_cr".  why would you choose one over the other.  Is it that "execute" runs within its own transaction (via cursor.commit/rollback) whereas "execute_cr" gives the caller control over what to include in the transaction?16:18
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Cristi_anjust for couriosity: are lambda functions used in tryton ?20:29
snowchCristi_an: a search for 'lambda' in the server code  download returned 87 matches.  Why do you ask?20:35
Cristi_anwell i review now the pythotn tutorial( tryton code is not avalable since i am in windows) and as i said for couriosity (in java i did not saw such things)20:36
snowchcristi_an: I am also a java developer and getting into python for the purpose of tryton.  By the way you should be able to get the source for Windows.  However, I use eclipse on linux.  I'm currently running the code through the debugger trying to build a mental picture of how things work.  The main things i'm struggling with python is the lack of static typing.  Sometimes, you can be reading code and have to do a lot of searching to understand what type an o20:41
Cristi_anthx..when i said i am in wind..( if orgot to mention that i have the ubuntu as weel installed ,where i have tryton)20:43
Cristi_anbut...i am doing serveral things in windows now.20:43
Cristi_anYes interesting for a java developer to start using python20:43
Cristi_anthe layers are also in my opinion not separtated.20:44
Cristi_anjava apps is how do i say..build upon the design patterns (GOF)20:45
snowchcristi_an: i find the layers to be very coupled and difficult to understand - lots of jumping around.20:45
Cristi_aneasier to understand harder to develop :)20:45
Cristi_anin tryton ?20:45
Cristi_anyes layers are coupled...from what i asked and understood20:46
Cristi_andid not had time to actually analize the code since i am newbie in ptyho (statted to learn)20:46
snowchcristi_an: have you taken a look at groovy - all the benefits of java structure, ide support, yet very clean dynamic language20:46
Cristi_anyou are tired of java too ?20:47
Cristi_angroovy ,ruby on rails,jruby on rails ...all these are nice...20:47
snowchcristi_an: no, I would love to see something like tryton ported to grails20:47
Cristi_anwell that would be nice...20:48
Cristi_anthey are wuite ahead...but with a strong comunity effort is possible...20:48
Cristi_ani asked cedk the same thing...20:48
Cristi_anand he answered logically.....20:48
snowchout of interest, why did you choose tryton over openerp?20:49
Cristi_anwhat would be the added value to this ?20:49
Cristi_ani did not know to asnwer to him  :) (just because i am java dev ?)20:49
Cristi_anto answer to you....20:49
Cristi_ani started with open erp ... did not know about tryton20:50
Cristi_anask on forums..20:50
snowchno support from forums?20:50
Cristi_anNOT20:50
Cristi_annot on irc20:50
Cristi_antoo many modules ...i say20:50
Cristi_anfor s begginer is better to stick to something that just started....20:51
snowchsame here.  I think OE aren't interested in community, only selling SAAS offering.20:51
Cristi_anYEP20:51
Cristi_ani hope the guys will be as responsive as they were...:)20:51
Cristi_ani told them that the comunity wiull grow...20:51
Cristi_anwoner how they will behave then :)20:51
Cristi_anin terms of suport ...20:51
snowchIt was a pleasant surprise to come to this forum and get excellent support20:52
Cristi_ani hope the same20:52
Cristi_anYEP....but now there are not many people who ask20:52
Cristi_anthey may still have time to answer20:52
Cristi_anwhat about aver a year from now....i hope other that will elarn still give suppor t:)20:52
Cristi_anwhere are you from ?20:53
snowchI'm looking for a framework to offer my customers.  I found OE to be to proprietary and lacking in support, so the only way forward was to learn the code and support it myself.  I think that it may be easier to understand the architecture of OE and then implement similar in java.  Location wise i'm from the uk.20:56
Cristi_ani just figured that,after ip20:57
Cristi_ansorry for my non-native english :)20:58
snowchnp: where are you from?20:58
Cristi_anRomanua20:58
Cristi_anRomania20:58
Cristi_anbtw: this is one of the things that i searched for as well20:58
snowchare you learning tryton for yourself or on behalf of an organisation20:59
snowch?20:59
snowchI did think about using adempiere, but felt that creating addons would not be as easy and quick as tryton.21:00
Cristi_anwell i work as a contractor,but , since my hobyy are erp appilcations21:00
Cristi_anin adempiere i spent like 2 weeks21:00
Cristi_anbrowsing the code21:00
Cristi_anunderstading architecture21:00
Cristi_anthey have like a very nice App Dictionary stuff built by Jorg Janke or so ....21:01
snowchbut?21:01
Cristi_anbut it is an OLD plain jdbc stuff21:01
Cristi_ancode generation based.21:01
snowchyep - very clunky! in much need of modernising.21:02
Cristi_anand it is too complicated for my potential customers21:02
Cristi_ani searched for a framework...that looked like that and i found open erp21:02
snowchwhat are your timescales for learning?21:02
Cristi_anand tryton21:02
Cristi_anpfff, since day by day i work as a contractor i have my free time for this...(+ a 2 year kid)21:03
Cristi_anso i ahev no clue :)21:03
Cristi_anbut i struggle to do this as fast as i can21:03
Cristi_ansince i want to adapt this for romania21:03
Cristi_ani plan to have this in MAY21:04
snowchI have nearly 3 year old + another due in Feb.  I'm not looking to rush maybe over the next year.21:04
Cristi_an:)21:04
snowchI quick like the idea of implementing this in grails though!21:04
Cristi_ando you have your won bussines ?21:04
Cristi_anwon = own21:04
snowchI'm a contractor too.  So work on tryton in my free time.21:05
Cristi_ani have an  old erp custom made...that i have spreade in ro 4 years ago...21:06
Cristi_anthat is why i want to come with somethiong new21:06
Cristi_annever know how this contracting stuff will last21:06
snowchhave you seen plazma - spring based, not as complex as adempiere?21:06
Cristi_ansure...21:07
Cristi_ani talked to Oleh21:07
snowchwhat did you make of it?21:07
Cristi_anhe's from Ukraine21:07
Cristi_ansorry ?21:07
snowchplazma - what were your findings?21:07
Cristi_anwell....it is RCP ,Spring based...as you said...it has a feature that i wante d to tryton to have as well21:08
Cristi_anit works with an embedded database.21:08
Cristi_anas well as with a server21:08
Cristi_andrawbacks:21:08
Cristi_anthe ui is fsat but not adapted to ease of use...21:09
Cristi_anjus trun it and you'll figured that out21:09
snowchI tried it a year or two back and found it to be a bit clunky!21:09
Cristi_ansomething like that21:11
snowchI have thought about a piecemeal approach to porting tryton to grails.  Keep the same XML-RPC api, keep the datamodel, keep the clients, but rewrite the server in grails.21:12
Cristi_annice ideea21:12
Cristi_ani told you already21:13
Cristi_anbut you want only web interface ?21:13
Cristi_anBUt if i ask you the what beck asked me21:13
Cristi_anwhat would be the value added to this ?21:13
snowchIf you keep the XML-RPC api the same, both GTK and WEB interface will work unchanged.21:14
Cristi_anmayeb the a RCP interface may be built :) or swing :)21:14
Cristi_antryton do not have right now web interface21:15
Cristi_anopen erp has (some indian company built that)21:15
snowchSWT/JFACE is nice.  OE web clients talks to server using same XML-RPC api.  Hopefully, tryton haven't changed the API.  In which case, OE web interface will work ok.21:16
Cristi_ani do not hting that these are compatible21:19
Cristi_anbut why grails21:21
Cristi_anand not app server from java21:22
Cristi_anlike jboss21:22
Cristi_anEJB 3.021:22
snowchgrails has a nice ORM layer based on hibernate, very similar to tryton ORM, + the use of groovy would make addons very similar to code to the python equivalents.21:23
Cristi_angrailsssss21:24
Cristi_ansoryyyyy21:24
Cristi_ani thought groovy....21:24
snowchIt may be more appropriate to build the core framework in spring, yet allow plugins in groovy/grails/gorm, etc21:24
snowchcan we paste code to this IRC do you know?21:26
Cristi_anno21:26
Cristi_anbut ehre is some www.21:26
Cristi_anhttp://paste.pocoo.org/21:27
snowchexample data PartnerAddress data mode: http://pastebin.com/m3a45ff6a21:28
Cristi_annice21:28
snowchAnd corresponding service like code: http://pastebin.com/m5256c84921:29
snowchWhy use python when groovy probably does the same, is cleaner and has full java support?21:29
Cristi_andid you build something in grails until now ?21:30
snowchno, I was just playing around with it while learning tryton.  I started getting more interested when spring bought grails a few weeks back.21:31
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snowchalso grails already has a data driven view layer (called scaffold) that may be possible to adapt to create data dictionary driven forms.21:32
Cristi_anbut what web server is behind grails ?21:32
Cristi_anor how it works (with an app server) ?21:33
snowchany j2ee web container i think.  within netbeans there is a "create war" target.21:33
Cristi_ancool.21:34
Cristi_antomcat ,grizlly...etc21:34
Cristi_anno need for a app server21:34
snowchso grails has all the framework in place for building tryton without having to write code for doing orm etc!21:35
Cristi_anyes but tryton framework code has like 8000 lines od code21:35
Cristi_anthat was the thing that scared me21:35
Cristi_anand cut my wings when i though what you have in mind now21:36
snowchorm.py is approx 3200 lines of code!21:37
Cristi_anBTW21:38
Cristi_anusing a XML RPC protocol...21:39
snowchit would be wise to replace the orm layer with something like sql alchemy (similar to hibernate), but it is so embedded.21:39
Cristi_anis not slower then ...21:39
Cristi_anusing an app server for eaxample21:39
Cristi_an?21:39
Cristi_anthis is like using xml21:40
Cristi_anbut standard...formats21:40
Cristi_ancompared even to RMI (not mentionig ) an APP server....21:41
Cristi_anhow do you see that is behaving......21:41
snowchxml-rpc is just a layer on top of a service.  when you have the service working for xml-rpc, it should be possible to swap out the xml-rpc layer with something else.  especially if using spring, the service could be exported into may different formats.21:43
snowch... if the design is clean that is.21:43
Cristi_anthat is a better architecture21:43
Cristi_anbut i still do not understand why you want to change only the server code ?21:44
Cristi_anif you do that...why not make a complete solution21:45
snowchthe server change is the first step.  for me the server code is the biggest risk as it stands.  ideally replace the whole lot, but one step at a time.21:45
Cristi_anand youare ready for this by yourself ?21:46
Cristi_ana gut named ralvi or so sugested that is better to go with jrubuy on rails...he has pretty much the same arguments you have...21:46
snowchI have time (unless my contract gets terminated) and nothing to lose.21:47
Cristi_anbut you do this ...for you contract ?21:47
snowchgroovy feels much better aligned with java than jruby (after all it did follow a JSR)...21:47
Cristi_anor in free time ?21:48
snowchmy contract is something completely different.  this is just an interest for my free time.21:48
Cristi_ani got iy21:48
Cristi_anit21:48
snowchthat's why I'm not looking for big wins in the short term.  In the short term, if I have mastered the tryton code base, I've won also because I can offer tryton/OE based frameworks to other clients with the peace of mind knowing that I can support it.21:49
Cristi_anthat is my main fear !!!!21:50
Cristi_ani asked cedk how many people know the core21:50
Cristi_anwel on tryton there are 2 persons21:50
Cristi_anhim and bechamell21:50
Cristi_anat least now...21:50
Cristi_anthat is why i had the same thought as you have21:51
Cristi_anto rewrite something in my language (java)21:51
Cristi_anor related at least21:51
Cristi_anhaving a core you master is easier to maintain...etc.etc21:51
snowchthat's too much of a risk for me.21:51
snowchimagine though if tryton manage to swap out orm for something like sql alchemy, suddenly the core becomes much smaller.21:52
Cristi_ani do not knw details from pyton world but from what i understood that is something like hibernate or jpa21:53
Cristi_anso ...indeed the core will become smaller21:53
Cristi_ancan we continue on private ?21:53
Cristi_anguys maybe are not interested...21:54
snowchyes, that would be good21:54
snowchwhat are your contact details?21:56
Cristi_ani wrote to you on private ?21:57
Cristi_anyou did not get my questions...?21:57
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