IRC logs of #tryton for Thursday, 2009-01-08

chat.freenode.net #tryton log beginning Thu Jan 8 00:00:01 CET 2009
CIA-8tryton: matb roundup * #735/Update: IntegrityError: duplicate key value violates unique constraint "account_journal_type_code_uniq": [new] On update of an older database: [Wed Jan 07 23:51:59 2009] INFO:init:module:account_statement:loading statement.xml [Wed Jan 07 23:52:01 20 ...00:01
bechamelvengfulsquirrel: stock moves are created from the actual location of products to the output zone, this allow to see in the packing where to go to find the products00:03
bechamelvengfulsquirrel: so visualy you see that moves listed on the first tab change their status from draft to assign (if the product are available in the default location, if not the From Location is also updated00:04
bechamelvengfulsquirrel: if only a part of the product are available on that location the quantity a decreased accordingly and another move is created with a From Location where the same product is avalaible00:06
CIA-8tryton: C?dric Krier <ced@b2ck.com> default * 225:f7073118f76b party/party.py: Change party order for ASC00:07
CIA-8tryton: ced roundup * #728/order_field for party seems not to work: [resolved] It is by name desc but I just change it for asc.00:08
CIA-8tryton: ced roundup * #735/Update: IntegrityError: duplicate key value violates unique constraint "account_journal_type_code_uniq": [resolved] It was due to bad xml files.00:09
bechamelvengfulsquirrel: this may help: http://www.tryton.org/doc/branches/1.0/modules/stock/doc/index.html00:12
vengfulsquirrelYeah I've read that I just don't understand how all these pieces fit together.00:13
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bechamelvengfulsquirrel: the doc is a bit dry, unfortunately00:15
vengfulsquirrelbechamel: When I click assign nothing happens though the state is just stuck on Draft.00:19
cedkvengfulsquirrel: this is because there is not enough product in the stock for assignation00:20
cedkvengfulsquirrel: see https://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue54000:20
vengfulsquirreloh crap nevermind yeah I thought the location was child to Storage Zone but its not00:20
cedkthere is some improvement to do00:20
vengfulsquirrelokay well that's one problem that probably i can solve, I still cna't open the invoice though because it says there is no Period for the date although I've added a Fiscal Year and a monthly Period, does something else need to be done ?00:21
cedkvengfulsquirrel: are you sure that there is a period for the invoice date00:23
vengfulsquirrelHmm yeah but all the periods are closed although the Fiscal Year is open.00:24
vengfulsquirrelCan I re-open a period?00:24
cedkvengfulsquirrel: yes00:25
cedkvengfulsquirrel: there is a wizard00:25
vengfulsquirrelSorry, crap, I didn't realize I had to go to periods and then edit the period and then re-open it.   I was trying to do it from the list of periods provided while editing the Fiscal Year.00:26
cedkvengfulsquirrel: it is an other things on the TODO list, adding actions on one2many list00:28
vengfulsquirrelYeah once you know how to do it though its not that big of a deal since re-opening/closing doesn't happen that often.00:29
vengfulsquirrelOr well I'd imagine it wouldn't happen very often, I really have no idea.00:30
cedkyes, but it is better to have users find stuff where they think they are00:30
vengfulsquirrelYes, of course.00:32
cedkvengfulsquirrel: by the way, you are from canada?00:32
vengfulsquirrelCalifornia, United States00:32
cedkvengfulsquirrel: ha ok, ca in the ip address is for california :-)00:33
cedkvengfulsquirrel: about accounting stuff maybe there is some stuff that doesn't match the america accounting00:34
cedkdon't hesitate to report us00:34
cedkas we have not some much knowledge in america accounting00:34
vengfulsquirrelI honestly know nothing about accounting, but if I learn about US accounting then I will.00:34
cedkvengfulsquirrel: I know that there is not VAT, but it is not a problem with Tryton as you just let the field empty00:35
vengfulsquirrelVAT is for European taxes right ?00:36
cedkvengfulsquirrel: it is used in Europe but also in some other countries00:37
cedkvengfulsquirrel: we have setup a project for vat number: http://code.google.com/p/vatnumber/00:39
cedkI'm going to sleep00:43
cedkvengfulsquirrel: bye00:43
vengfulsquirrelcedk: Thanks, talk to you tomorrow.01:20
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cristi_anif i install the server to one of the clients and i porvide initially only 3 modules10:34
cristi_anthen after 3 months he needs a 4th one10:34
cristi_anis is just enough to copy the module on trytond directory10:34
cristi_anrun the install stuff10:34
cristi_anand it will work10:34
cristi_an?10:34
cristi_anand relate to update ...the same... ?10:36
Timitoscristi_an: yes for new module. for update you need to take care that you do not rename fields or make problematic changes to field types10:36
cristi_anso on update not modifiye existing fileds in the database10:38
cristi_anbut new one may be added10:38
Timitoscristi_an: yes. and there is some possibility to modify existing fields. but be careful with this.10:39
cristi_anthx10:39
Timitoscristi_an: an example of a field modification: http://hg.tryton.org/hgwebdir.cgi/modules/account_invoice/rev/e9ba643f319210:39
Timitoscristi_an: this kind would be a good way for modifying a field i think.10:40
cristi_ani see10:41
Timitosafk10:42
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bepivinhello10:47
bepivinnayone can help?10:48
bepivinanyone can help?10:49
cedkbepivin: for what?10:49
bepivinhi cedk10:49
bepivini would to know if i could install tryton on a pc where is installed also openerp10:50
cedkbepivin: it must have no issue, except perhaps that you will see openerp database in the tryton client10:51
bepivinah ok. are there any doc on installation steps or are the same of tiny?10:52
bepivinserver, then initdb then client10:52
cedkbepivin: yes globally10:53
bepivinok thanks very much10:53
bepivinany italian here?10:53
Timitosbepivin: not today10:56
bepivinok last question :)10:59
bepivinare the binary releases?10:59
bepivini see tryton-setup-1.0.2.exe11:00
bepivinwhat is the last stable version?11:00
bepivini'm on winxp11:00
Timitosbepivin: you can use tryton-1.0.2.exe it is the tryton client. and this one does not need installation. just use it.11:01
Timitosbepivin: for the server there is not exe as installation of the server on windows is not recommended11:01
bepivinmmm11:02
bepivinbad news for me11:03
bepivinok thanks Timitos11:03
Timitosyou are welcome11:03
Timitosafk11:03
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cedkbepivin: but you can install the server on windows, you just need to install python, postgresql and some python modules11:06
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bepivinthanks cedk11:14
bepivinyou mean i have to compile11:15
bepivinore execute the sources?11:15
cedkbepivin: just execute de source11:16
bepivinok11:16
cedkbepivin: there is win exe for python, postgresql and python modules11:16
bepivinyes i have postrgres already installed11:17
cedkwe should perhaps think about making a exe for the server also11:17
bepivini think it can attract more people11:17
bepivin:)11:17
bepivin(if you want to attract more)11:18
cedkbepivin: the only thinhs is that we don't think it is good to run on windows with production data11:18
cedkbepivin: by the way, if you want first make some tests, you can use the demo server11:19
bepivinmmm i don't know the pros and cons, because i'm not a python expert11:20
cedkbepivin: it is completly useful11:20
bepivinbut i see a server in tiny/openerp11:20
bepivinand then...11:20
cedkbepivin: for me this server is not good, because it doesn't give the power to the user to configure his database server11:21
bepivinwhat you mean 'configure'?11:21
cedkbepivin: yes, postgresql is a server so you must create a system user, give grant access etc...11:22
bepivinok11:22
bepivini've done this11:22
bepivinwith windows11:22
bepivinno problem for me11:23
bepivinpgadmin is ok11:23
oversizehi, as you guys are the only i know that use roundup, i thought maybe one has a hint for why i get this error: http://dpaste.com/106676/  !?  thank you :D11:23
bepivini'm also in adempiere erp11:23
bepivinno problem11:23
cedkbepivin: if we make a server exe, we will not embeded postgresql11:23
bepivinobviously11:24
bepivinpostgres11:24
bepivinserver11:24
bepivinclient11:24
bepivin3 pieces11:24
bepivin3 setup11:24
cedkbepivin: more the modules11:25
bepivinyes11:26
bepivinin tiny base modules are installed with server setup11:26
bepivini remember a year ago i've installed tiny server (with sources): a nightmare11:28
bepivin(on win xp)11:28
udonocedk: hi, is it hard to create an exe file from the current tryton 1.1?11:31
udonocedk: I mean the client only?11:32
udonocedk: its another topic then from bepivin... (but they look similar :-)11:35
cedkudono: you need a python env, and run python setup.py py2exe11:40
cedkudono: and after makensis setup.nsi11:40
udonocedk: I need to create it on Windows?11:41
udonocedk: sh** I can't create by myself... have no python on windows11:43
cedkudono: I try with cross-compile, but it doesn't work11:44
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ikksEy, openerp will use also .rst and sphinx for the new documentation.12:34
ikkshttp://www.openerp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2755312:35
cedkikks: we show their the right way :-)12:43
ikkscedk :)12:43
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cristi_ansince the client acts like a browser it createa a connection on each server side action ? or there is a socket connection active as the app starts ?12:59
cedkcristi_an: only one connection13:00
cedkoversize: which backend do you use?13:27
CIA-8tryton: C?dric Krier <ced@b2ck.com> default * 415:a841f48ad224 stock/location.py: Improve test on product in context and fix some guidelines13:40
oversizecedk: postgresql13:43
cedkoversize: so it is just an error of transaction13:43
cedkoversize: you must have two user that write the same records13:44
oversizecedk: two users try t write to the same record which causes this?13:44
oversizehm strange, as there is just the roundup user accessing this db13:45
cedkoversize: we don't use postgresql as backend13:46
cedkoversize: do you know which kind of connection roundup open to postgresql ?13:46
oversizeyeah, well, i switched to postgres so i can have fulltext search including the issues title13:46
oversizewhat you mean with "which kind of connection" ?13:47
oversizehow many ?13:47
oversizeand, short answer, no :)13:47
cedkoversize: args they use psycopg113:50
oversizewell i use pscyopg2, i think13:50
oversizepy25-psycopg2-2.0.8 The high performance Python adapter for PostgreSQ13:51
oversizewell, thanks, will try on roundup list :D13:51
cedkoversize: yes but they use the old backport13:51
oversizethis has about zero activity thoug, which i thought i just ask here :)13:51
cedkoversize: how do you connect to roundup ? roundup standalone, cgi ?13:52
oversizewhat you mean? i thought when i install psycopg on my path, roudup would use that13:52
oversizestandalone13:52
cedkoversize: /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/roundup/backends/back_postgresql.py line 1813:53
cedkoversize: ok, it will not be a concurent thread access13:53
cedkoversize: we use sqlite, and there is no issue for that13:54
oversizeif i understand it right, its just the timestamp of the session age that gets modified, which i hope wont cause so much trouble for me.13:55
oversizeso roundup uses psycopg2 but handles it as psycopg1 ?13:56
cedkoversize: yes13:57
cedkoversize: I don't think it is just the session, I think it can be any timestamp of any records13:58
cedkoversize: maybe ask on roundup mailling list13:59
oversizeyes i will,  asked here cause i thought i get a faster answer :D14:00
oversizeanyway thank you  8)14:00
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CIA-8tryton: Timitos roundup * #736/AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'id': [new] Traceback (most recent call last): File "/trytond/netsvc.py", line 282, in run res = method(*msg[2:]) File "/trytond/web_service/obj ...14:42
CIA-8tryton: Timitos roundup * #736/AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'id': [chatting] I tried to assign a packing with a consumable product14:43
CIA-8tryton: C?dric Krier <ced@b2ck.com> default * 416:3e4b79e8cd5e stock/product.py: Fix typo in pick_product consumable for issue73614:45
CIA-8tryton: ced roundup * #736/AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'id': [resolved] Fix with changeset 3e4b79e8cd5e14:45
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CIA-8tryton: C?dric Krier <ced@b2ck.com> default * 417:441ec572fe30 stock/COPYRIGHT: Update copyright14:47
cedkenlightx: hi14:49
cedkenlightx: I see your post in the openerp forum about psycopg14:49
enlightxcedk: hi14:50
cedkenlightx: I guess we don't have this issue with Tryton ?14:50
enlightxcedk: it depends on the cursor type you have used14:51
enlightxcedk: just a sec, i'm going to see14:51
enlightxcedk: yes, tryton is using the right approach :)14:52
enlightxi really don't understand openerp people...14:53
cedkenlightx: I was not aware of this compatibility issue14:54
cedkenlightx: I see that they make many commit to change in the code the encoding14:55
enlightxcedk: yes, but this will be a mess in a not so far future14:56
enlightxeven if you use a utf8 postgres instance you have to manually encode a lot of strings14:57
cedkenlightx: and by the way, I find it was very strange for the stability to switch from psycopg1 to psycopg between rc1 and rc214:57
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enlightxwe will see what is going to happen for the rc3443 :)14:59
cedkenlightx: :-)15:00
cedkenlightx: in 2034 :-)15:00
enlightxhowever, i think they still use the old cursor type just to avoid possible compatibility issues with old tinyerp 4.x instances15:00
enlightxbut i don't think this is a real problem15:01
cedkenlightx: by the way, it is not the only project to do like that, I see today that roundup also use it15:02
enlightxoh yes, i have the same problem with django15:02
cedkenlightx: strange, because psycopg2 is prety old now15:04
cedkenlightx: it was release in 200615:05
enlightxbut the code of openerp is older15:05
cedkenlightx: by the way bepivin was looking for italian people, you are italian, no ?15:06
enlightxyes i am15:06
carlosdoes anyone know an intuxication.org admin?15:29
carlosseems like their DNS server is down so the service is not available15:29
bepivinciao enlightx15:30
cedkcarlos: try the chan #intuxication15:31
enlightxbepivin: ciao15:31
carloscedk: thanks15:31
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carloscedk: hi16:58
cedkcarlos: hi16:59
carloscedk: I forgot to tell you that I got the trytonerp.es domain  a while ago, until we start running a Spanish community on that domain, I'm thinking on redirect it to www.tryton.org/es_ES16:59
cristi_ancedk: i plan to do the same for ro when i will have the ro trnsalation17:00
cedkcarlos: ok, no problems17:00
carloscedk: and btw, I guess my thread about es_ES, fr_FR, etc.. vs. es, fr didn't success, right? ;-)17:01
cedkcarlos: I had thinking about it, but for now it is not urgent17:01
cedkcarlos: but it is not a real issue for the website, but it could be good for Tryton him-self17:02
cedkcarlos: because we had fr_FR and perhaps fr_BE17:02
cedkcarlos: so you idea is good, as I didn't know this specific behavior of gettext17:03
carlosok, I agree it's not urgent, just wanted to know whether is something we may want to do in Tryton at some point17:05
carlosabout the website, www.tryton.org/es is prettier than www.tryton.org/es_ES :-P17:05
carlosnothing else ;-)17:06
carlosACTION moves back to his char of accounts' cave17:07
carloss/char/chart/17:07
cedkcarlos: ok it is in the pipeline :-)17:08
udonocarlos: Hi17:10
udonocarlos but you have other spain languages like catalan and basque? so the es_ES is not the most bad?17:11
carlosudono: well, you are moving to the political field, and that's dangerous...17:12
carlosudono: also, 'es' is for Spanish, the language, not the country17:12
cedkudono: es_ES is linked with es_CO, es_AR, etc.17:12
udonocarlos: as I hit the enter key, I thought of it.17:12
cedkand it is right that globaly they will have all the same translation except for some17:13
cedkso it will be bettre to have only on records for es and some for es_ES, es_CO, etc.17:14
udonocedk: yes, this is a good solution17:14
cristi_anin terms of license if a firm want a custom module17:33
cristi_andoes that custom module has to be public ? may that firm be charged for that module and to keep that for private use ?17:33
udonocristi_an: no need to public the module, but everyone who has the module can public it as he like. charging for keeping private is not legal use of gpl.17:35
udonocristi_an: afaik17:35
cristi_anlet me put the problem differently ,then charging for installing the module ? :)17:37
cristi_anfor example i develop oa very custom module for a firm17:37
cristi_anudono: i have to be able to live out of this...so i may ask money for my services right ?17:38
cristi_anand that module may or maybe made public17:38
cristi_anis this legal ?17:38
udonocristi_an: If they like, they can put it in the internet, even, when they didn't paied for it afaik.17:39
udonocristi_an: afaik, you can charge the developin, installation, courses, written handbooks17:39
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cristi_anok but if i deliver an exe17:41
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cristi_anudono: maybe the sources obfuscate( if such things exists)17:42
cristi_anin python ?17:42
udonocristi_an: no way, ilegal afaik.17:42
Timitostekknokrat: hi. nice to see you again17:43
tekknokrathi timitos, nice to see you too17:44
yangooncristi_an: as long as you use substantial data form tryton, your derived work has to be GPL17:45
udonocristi_an: when you want to "sell" gpl-3 you must guarantee the avail. of the source. Since modules are using the Tryton framework, they must be gpl-3 too. Afaik if you only connect via xmlrpc then you can sell a propritary product, but I don't know exactly.17:45
bechamel`cristi_an: if you create a gpl module you are due to provide sources, but nothing prevent you for creating proprietary modules as long as you don't bundle them with tryton itself17:46
udonohi tekknokrat17:46
bechamel`cristi_an: you must distribute it separatly17:46
tekknokrathi udono17:46
bechamel`there are proprietary module for joomla and firefox for example17:47
cristi_anbechamel`: that is a good sample17:47
yangoonbechamel`: but someone using those modules is entitled to have the sources17:47
yangoonbechamel`: and to publish them, if he likes17:47
bechamel`but if you do so you will loose a lot of advantage of open source17:47
cristi_ani am tallking about an hypotetical problem: a custom odule is developed and istalled on a firm17:48
cristi_anthen if the module is made public...may be used by 100 other firms17:49
cristi_anthat have that profile as original firm17:49
bechamel`yangoon: no, you can see the module as a modelisation of certain needs, and this module respect some api, but one can imagine a foo-erp  that is completely closed source but that provide the api of tryton17:49
Timitosbechamel`: but this is a gpl problem. anybody who has the source can publish it and you need to provide the source if you give the solution to someone other17:49
bechamel`Timitos: i talk about proprietary module not gpl module17:50
cristi_anbechamel`: i talk about a private module as well17:50
cristi_anis possible to have such thing upon a open source ?17:50
cristi_anframework ?17:51
Timitosbechamel`: so you mean if it only works through xml-rpc with tryton as cedk mentioned? i also don´t know if this layer is basic enough17:51
bechamel`cristi_an: but if it's the firm that want to keep the code private, its ok to provide gpl module. gpl is there to gives power to the customer, not the software companies17:51
bechamel`cristi_an: yes i think it's possible, but i do not encourage you to do so :)17:53
yangoonbechamel`: like Timitos says: AFAIK as soon as you use some code from tryton, you have to use GPL17:53
bechamel`Timitos: i talk about a normal module, not via rpc17:54
bechamel`yangoon: yes if you use code, but not if your module follow the api17:54
cristi_anbechamel`: what do you mean normal module ?17:54
yangoonbechamel`: it is not my understanding of GPL17:54
bechamel`cristi_an: like every modules that have been made17:54
Timitosbechamel`: you cannot have proprietary module if you connect it with tryton. this is not gpl compliant17:54
udonohttp://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#OOPLang17:55
cristi_anTimitos: i guess you are right17:55
udonoTimitos: so you are right.17:55
bechamel`udono: it's the faq not the licence17:55
udonobechamel`: :-)17:55
bechamel`udono: the gpl does tell oo  inheritance is derivative work17:55
Timitosbechamel`: i do not understand?17:56
bechamel`udono: for example i know some java frameworks that have been implemented by several poeple, some implementations are opensource, other are not17:57
yangoonbechamel`: I think as soon as you use in a module __tryton__.py, you have used code from the project17:57
bechamel`yangoon: i'm not sure17:58
bechamel`yangoon: once again look at joomla and firefox17:59
Timitosbechamel`: firefox does not have gpl license!!17:59
udonobechamel`: maybe the API is not GPL?18:00
bechamel`an api cannot be licenced, it's the implentation that is18:00
bechamel`anyway, creating proprietary module is not a good idea, it easy to look the gui to understand how it works, it's the business stuff that are difficult to understand right, the implementation is easy18:01
udonobechamel`: absolutely. I see no more sense in hiding software then bad code quality...18:03
bechamel`udono: :)18:04
udonoand it seems that the XMLRPC is sorted out in gpl V3, too. http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#AGPLv3InteractingRemotely18:05
yangoonbechamel`: from joomla license faq: It is our opinion that most extensions are derivative works of Joomla! and must be licensed under the GNU GPL.18:06
bechamel`but once again if the customer wants to keep the module for him it's ok with the gpl (because the gpl give rights to the customer to get the source but doesn't force him to distributes them)18:06
yangoonbechamel`: If you believe your extension is not a derivative work we strongly recommend that you seek professional legal advice.18:06
yangoonbechamel`: the customer can do what he wants, but not the dev selling the module18:07
Timitosbechamel`: yes. but there are always two parties (the dev and the customer). both can decide to distribute the solution. the other party cannot restrict this right.18:10
bechamel`yangoon: I don't want to create proprietary modules, and I beleive that there is a risk for the one who will do. lawsuit are sometimes a lottery18:10
udonoyangoon: bechamel`is right imho that the customer can hide his module he has the right to contribute, but not the duty18:11
yangoonudono: as long as you don't publish or sell you have of course every right to hide18:12
bechamel`Timitos: if a customer give a developper big money to not distribute a module he created, it doesn't break the gpl imho. But if they want to distribute it the gpl force them to release also the code18:16
bechamel`the same way most of the openerp parnters doesn't publish their modules18:17
Timitosbechamel`: yes. money could help ;-) but you cannot restrict the right of the developer to distribute the solution if he developed it under gpl.18:17
Timitosbechamel`: there is no legal way to restrict this right. you can only try to convince the other party (perhaps with money)18:18
udonoyangoon: for the dev its much more advantageous to contribute the module to the community: Free Bug tracking, free help, finding more new customers for finance the next version... that's the business I see. Not selling the same piece of software again and again. But if the customer still don't want to contribute his paid software development, I would charge him for the loss of community dynamic. The dev need to do everything by himsel18:19
bechamel`Timitos: i don't think so, for example our dev contract state clearly who will be the copyright owner of the future code (b2ck only actualy, but one can imagine the other way around)18:20
Timitosbechamel`: yes. this could be perhaps a solution you are right. but i am not sure18:21
yangoonudono: ack18:22
bechamel`and of course IANAL :)18:22
udonobechamel`: pfui18:22
udono:-)18:22
yangoonudono: we started from the point, if cristi_an is entitled to not publish or obfuscate sources to customers. and there I would state a clear NO.18:23
udonoyangoon: you are right, imho18:23
Timitosthis was a great discussion guys. i think there are many things clear now.18:25
udonoACTION thinks another time we complete our monthly legal discussion. Next one will be in February :-)18:25
yangoonbechamel`: I even can't imagine the other way round. even if you sell your copyright, you still have the sources of some GPL code. and you have the freedom to publish it. if you will do it is another thing.18:26
bechamel`yangoon: not if the module is created from scratch18:26
yangoonbechamel`: IANAL too, but you know my opinion about __tryton__.py18:27
bechamel`yangoon: and also as i said i'm not sure that a tryton module is a derivative work, as i explained with the java framework18:27
udonoyangoon: If he is contracted by the customer, than the contract counts equally. The decision may be easier when you sign: "The dev pay 50.000 EUR to the client when making the source open to the community"...18:28
yangoonbechamel`: do you have a link for the java thing?18:28
cristi_anbtw tryton code is a fork of open erp's18:29
cristi_an?18:29
cristi_anthat was possible because open erp has gpl license18:29
udonoyangoon: bechamel` http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#IfInterpreterIsGPL18:29
yangooncristi_an: exactly18:29
cristi_ani just asked because i want to know hwat kind of bussines models can be built aroung tryton18:30
bechamel`yangoon: no i don't even remenber the name18:30
udonocristi_an: ... and they changed the license of openERP to GPL3, too. For better 'collaboration' with Tryton...18:31
cristi_anif a do a custom module for ro and i made it pullic..then i do a good thing for comunity but i will do not have anything to eat :)18:31
cristi_ansorry for asking since i do not have time to check what is the big dif between gpl and gpl3 ?18:31
bechamel`cristi_an: your customer will pay you for new module, it's your value added18:32
cristi_anbechamel`: but the other companies will get it for free18:32
yangooncristi_an: and other customization work to do18:32
yangooncristi_an: all kind of support18:32
bechamel`cristi_an: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/rms-why-gplv3.html18:32
bechamel`cristi_an: a company with an erp but without any support for it is not very serious18:33
udonobechamel`: or its called SAP...18:34
bechamel`cristi_an: yes other will do, but if another company want some improvement they will pay you, and they will be ok to pay you because those imporvement will appear on top of something that they have got for free18:34
cristi_ani got it18:35
cedkcristi_an: most of the time companies haven't IT staffs, so they need you to setup Tryton, make backups, etc...18:35
bechamel`cristi_an: in the open source business customer pay for a real service not for some proprietary chain18:36
cedkcristi_an: and they will need update and fix18:36
cristi_anfor sure !18:36
cedkcristi_an: of course to start your business you need to invist some of your time18:36
cristi_ani have some customers...and they pay a monthly fee for my services18:36
cedkcristi_an: if it is too much for you, try to find other people that want also make an ro account module18:37
cristi_anfor new legal updates ,for backup,for some custom stuff18:37
cristi_ani guess i will keep this model with tryton as well18:37
cedkcristi_an: so they paid for your services18:37
cristi_anhopefully18:37
cristi_anservices..right...but initally they paied the program too many years ago18:37
cristi_annow they will pay instaltion :)18:38
cristi_anand get the sourcer for free18:38
bechamel`cristi_an: nothing is free :)18:38
cristi_an+ subscription for my services18:38
cedkcristi_an: most of the time, if you do your jobs right, company will not switch or try to make the job out of you18:38
cristi_ancedk: they do not have a chioce unfortunately for them....18:39
carlosHmm, I'm having some problems with the chart of accounts terminology in English, In tryton there are 'payable', 'revenue', 'receivable', 'expense' and 'other' (I think 'view' is just to represent an account parent). However, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chart_of_accounts I see 'Asset', 'Liability', 'Equity', 'Revenue', 'Expense' and 'Contra-accounts'. The Spanish chart of accounts uses 'Asset' and 'Liability' but I don't know how to map that into tryton18:39
cedkcristi_an: but opensource is a matter of choice18:39
cristi_anhaving a it stuff is mucm much more expensive then a subciption to a contractor18:39
Timitoscarlso: those terms of tryton are only for internal use18:40
Timitoscarlos: Asset Liablity Equity: these are account types18:40
cedkcarlos: this is type not kind18:40
carlosOk, I thought kind == type18:40
cedkcarlos: it is two different things, kind for internal use, type for balance sheet18:41
cedkcristi_an: don't understand?18:41
carloscedk, Timitos: Which 'kind' should I select for each account?18:42
Timitoscarlos: need to leave. sorry18:42
cedkcarlos: it depends of the use18:43
cristi_ani say it is better for a company to have a subscription with a contractor for a ERP rather then having a full time it stuff as employee18:43
cedkcarlos: view: prevent of having move on it18:43
cristi_anand to pay the contractor for his services18:43
carlosTimitos: np, thanks18:43
carloscedk: yeah, view is the only one I'm sure when should be used ;-)18:43
cedkcristi_an: yes, that is the key point :-)18:44
cedkcarlos: expense and revenue are used to filter account on product form18:45
carloscedk: I think that expense and revenue is more or less clear too (phone bill, electricity are expenses and revenue what you get from your customers / selling goods)18:45
carloscedk: what you sell and what you buy, right?18:46
cedkcarlos: payable and receivable are used to compute the respective amount on party18:46
cedkcarlos: yes18:46
cedkcarlos: kind is just a way to prevent to select wrong account in some place18:46
carloscedk: so with payable and receivable, you detect the accounts that you can use to calculate what owns you a party or what owns you to a party, right?18:47
cedkcarlos: yes18:47
carlosok, I got it18:47
carloscedk: thanks18:47
carlosso I need to create the account types in my chart of accounts with account.account.type.template ?18:48
bechamel`yangoon: the java framwork i talked about is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knopflerfish, which was a proprietary implementation of a protocol. It have been open sourced and i can tell you that proprietary componant exist for it. but knopflerfish is not gpl, it's a bsd licence. But a i said nothing prevent somebody to create a proprietary framework that will mimik the tryton api.18:48
udonobechamel`: so its BSD and free for propritary use: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_licenses#Proprietary_software_licenses_compatibility18:52
bechamel`udono: yes, i thought it was gpl18:53
cedkcarlos: yes18:57
udonobechamel`: but you are right. In german we say something like If there's no claimant, there's no judge. cristi_an ('Wo kein Kläger da kein Richter') :-)18:58
cedkfor the proprietary module, one thing that can not be done is to distribute it with Tryton. It must be separated packages18:59
cedkwhat bechamel` try to say, it that you can write your own software (any license) that will be able to run Tryton modules19:00
carloscedk: ok, thanks for your input, let's see what I get with all this information ;-)19:00
cedkbecause there is no patent on the API19:00
cedkcarlos: you're welcome19:00
cristi_an:)19:02
carlosgod, API patents...19:02
cristi_an"The Stunnel source code is available under the GNU General Public License, meaning it is free to use in both commercial and non commercial applications as you see fit, as long as you provide source code (and any modifications) with the software"19:06
cedkcristi_an: yes, you can sale Tryton if you want19:06
udonocristi_an: exactly it is with Tryton...19:06
cristi_ani will sell only my services19:09
cristi_anthat will be enough for me :)19:09
cedkcristi_an: it will be difficult to sale Tryton as any body can download it :-)19:11
cristi_anhehe :)19:13
udonocristi_an: ... and your customer will no longer trust you if he recognize :-=19:13
cristi_ani did no know that :)))19:13
cristi_anit is public ?19:13
cristi_an:)19:13
cristi_anmaybe you did not know exactly the situation....i asked this because there is A LOT of work LOT for makeing it comatible with ro19:14
cristi_anif i made public my work....19:14
cristi_anthen be sure...that i will be left without revenue...19:15
udonocristi_an: Its the same than for Germany, Belgium, spain, Romania19:15
cristi_ansince RO is not belgium or france19:15
cristi_anudono: NO19:15
cristi_anro and est european countries mentalities are very much different19:15
cristi_anbut that is politics19:16
udonocristi_an: its your entry card for romania, because you are the author of the romanian implementation, nobody can steal it from you....19:16
cristi_ani hope that will be enough...19:16
cristi_annow these are only dreams19:17
udonocristi_an: and the knowledge you build is yours, too.19:17
cristi_anthee si a lot of work in that19:17
udonocristi_an: just start with the visuals: translation, chart of accounts19:17
cristi_ani started ...19:17
cristi_anin parralel with doin my own modules19:18
cristi_andemo ones19:18
cristi_anbut only in spare time19:18
carloscristi_an: look at it in this other form, your work is a not so much as the work for the whole product (Tryton) and your contribution is the way to 'pay' for the other parts of Tryton that you got for free. In addition, other people from Romania will be able to help you to improve your localization once it's released19:18
cristi_an:(19:18
cristi_ancarlos: agree with you19:18
carlosthere will be people that will not contribute with you, but there will be others that will do it and it will be cheaper for you to maintain it in that way than going you alone19:19
carloshmm, many uses of 'it'... sorry ;-)19:20
cristi_aneh :)19:20
carloscedk: how could I get write access to http://code.google.com/p/tryton/w/list ?19:21
cedkcarlos: just ask and provide google account :-)19:22
carloscedk: I would like to document the chart of accounts creation process19:22
carloscedk: please, could you give me access to it? :-P19:23
cedkcarlos: ok, done19:24
carlosthanks19:25
cedkcarlos: try to keep the same way of creating document19:25
cedkcarlos: try to not duplicate informations19:25
carlosok19:27
udonocarlos: ... and don't to forget to enrich and clean up all the existing documents with your advice and our opinion :-)19:34
carlossure, however, I'm not famous for my documentation skills... ;-)19:35
carlosbut when there is nothing or my documentation... my documentation is good :-P19:36
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cristi_an"Stateless design. Rails wins here because it's also fully HTTP REST compliant while OpenERP doesn't benefit yet the idempotence of most of HTTP methods and use HTTP POST instead to tunnel its XML/RPC, while also supporting the fast NetRPC protocol (similar to Java RMI) or HTTP via eTiny, more specifically a thin Turbogears/CherryPy layer), but that's not as RESTful as Rails yet. "19:48
cristi_anif instead of rails we put tryton this sentece is still valid ?19:49
cedkcristi_an: I don't understand every sentence, but Tryton is no HTTP REST compliant19:51
cristi_ancedk: thx for pointing this19:52
bechamel`ACTION don't think etiny is a thin layer 19:53
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cedkenlightx: did you see the OpenERP answer?19:55
enlightxcedk: yes, right now19:56
enlightxbut if that is true, what is causing those problems?19:57
enlightxevery export ends in a 'ascii can't decode'19:57
enlightxi think i'm going to work harder on tryton :)19:58
cedkenlightx: any way, in the code of psycopg2, it is said that using psycopg1: It should be considered a temporary hack to run old code while porting to psycopg 219:58
cedkenlightx: I think the issue comes from the switch to psycopg219:58
cedkenlightx: in psycopg2 strings are unicode by default, and in psycopg it was str19:59
enlightxboth of them (cursor styles) works the same19:59
enlightxthe big difference is that the psycopg1 version doesn't keep the correct encoding19:59
enlightxbut i didn't investigated19:59
enlightxforcing openerp to use psycopg2 the problem disappear20:00
cedkenlightx: but doesn't seem that they will change it :-)20:01
enlightxeheh, yeah i think so :)20:02
enlightxcedk: does tryton provide accounting charts?20:04
cedkenlightx: for now, only a minimal20:05
enlightxis it hard to port an existing one from openerp?20:06
cedkenlightx: I don't think so, but there is some new functionnality in Tryton20:06
cedkenlightx: so you must know how accounting works20:07
cedkenlightx: at least a little20:07
CIA-8tryton: C?dric Krier <ced@b2ck.com> default * 1452:f436d1853d06 trytond/setup.py: Fix guidelines20:08
CIA-8tryton: C?dric Krier <ced@b2ck.com> default * 1453:41a21b9030b6 trytond/TODO: Add todo for context in xxx2xxx operation20:08
CIA-8tryton: C?dric Krier <ced@b2ck.com> default * 1454:3cee85555b87 trytond/: merge20:08
CIA-8tryton: C?dric Krier <ced@b2ck.com> default * 418:2a36e0c10075 stock/inventory.py: Add ondelete CASCADE on inventory lines20:09
CIA-8tryton: C?dric Krier <ced@b2ck.com> default * 419:495eaa0b4870 stock/inventory.py: Order inventory lines by product name20:09
CIA-8tryton: C?dric Krier <ced@b2ck.com> default * 420:007d06b0bb81 stock/ (inventory.py inventory.xml): Allow to filter on category and product to complete inventory20:09
enlightxcedk: that's not a problem in my case, i have people with good knowledge20:12
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LucaSubhallo.20:21
enlightxLucaSub: hi20:22
LucaSubhi20:23
enlightxcedk: is someone of you already working on something similar to the openoffice extension they made for openerp?20:23
enlightxeven if it is not so useful :)20:25
bechamel`enlightx: in tryton, report templates are odt documents, so one can edit them easily, but maybe the extension provide other features20:27
enlightxbechamel`: i mean an extension which fetch from tryton the fields available20:28
cristi_anbechamel`: i saw in open erp a feature (not needed as feature) ..there is a demo in which they import some uml diagram and ==> a module (crud operations)20:29
cristi_anbechamel`: is that hard to have in trytons as well in the future20:29
bechamel`enlightx: no there is no such stuff20:29
cristi_ansince is not practical right now but is nice to impress customers :)20:29
enlightxcristi_an: it's a DIA extension20:29
cristi_ani geuss that is !!!20:30
bechamel`cristi_an: for which purpose ? what's happend if you add something in the source ? you cannot use the generator anymore20:30
enlightxi tryed it, and it works well20:30
cristi_anbechamel`: what you can;t  ?20:30
cristi_ando anymore ?20:30
enlightxbechamel`: it is useful just to build the initial frame of your code20:31
cristi_anbechamel`: "you cannot use the generator anymore"20:31
cristi_an?20:31
bechamel`cristi_an: it will write over your modifications20:32
bechamel`cristi_an: a real solution should be able to work the both way: if you add a class in the code the dia is updated accordingly, but for the moment it's a dump convertion from xml tag to python class20:34
enlightxwe (plone developers) have a similar plugin wich convert uml diagrams built with argouml and convert them to plone plugins20:34
enlightxbut keeping your changes20:34
bechamel`enlightx: and it's really usefull ?20:34
cristi_anplone developers ?20:35
cristi_ani google it right now :)20:35
enlightxbechamel`: yes, we use it a lot, but just to build concepts of course20:35
enlightxcristi_an: www.plone.org20:35
cristi_ani am there20:36
cristi_anso you build cms ?20:36
enlightxcristi_an: plone is more than a cms, is a framework you use to build your own cms (or portal, or intranet or whatever you like :-)20:37
cristi_anplone is like drupal for phpp ?20:37
cristi_anbut in python i guess20:37
enlightxyes it is written in python :)20:37
cristi_anor joomla like ?20:37
enlightxthey aren't frameworks20:38
enlightxthey are pure cmses20:38
cristi_anheheheh20:38
cristi_an"A light-hearted confession from an ex-Java junkie about why he switched to Python and Plone after several years of mainlining java beans"20:38
enlightxplone is similar to oracle portal for example20:38
cristi_ani see20:38
cristi_ani am java junkiee but not that happy as the above confesioner :)20:40
cristi_ani wish io would like to rent "cedk or bechamell for 1 week " (jokeing) to spend time and try to understand more and more from tryton20:41
enlightx:)20:42
cristi_anbtw cedk ,bechamel` you work in the same office ? or from home ?20:43
cristi_anor the german ones ?20:43
bechamel`cristi_an: home20:43
bechamel`cristi_an: if you want one can organise some trainings20:44
cristi_anwell i would love it !!!!!!!20:44
cristi_anme too...that sucks :)....bed ,kitchen,computer neverending lifecycle20:44
bechamel`cristi_an: ... but they are not free :)20:44
cristi_anok i can pay you in nature :)20:45
bechamel`cristi_an: hum, thank you, money is ok :)20:45
cristi_ani can give you potatos,drinks (home made)20:45
cristi_an:)20:45
cristi_anreally,maybe some trainings are welcomed :)20:46
cristi_anbut first time for free ,second time for money ....20:47
enlightxACTION thinks that tryton channel is funnier than openerp one20:47
bechamel`cristi_an: the first free time is the chan actualy20:47
cristi_anwhat can i say you are right ...20:48
cristi_anbut a meeting this year will not hurt20:48
bechamel`cristi_an: btw neverending lifecycle is better than neverending traffic jam20:49
cristi_ando you have kids ?20:49
bechamel`cristi_an: i don't know when i will find time for that but i would like to add some tuto or intorductional documentation, it's really missing20:50
bechamel`cristi_an: no kids, just two cats :)20:50
cristi_anthen i understand you....when you have the kids you'll understnad me and say traffic jam rules20:51
bechamel`lol20:51
cristi_anwell i can do that docs...of course english will be revisited20:52
cristi_anbechamel`: you know some java right ?20:53
cristi_anfor me the hardest thing is to make analogies between what is in tryton with some java20:53
bechamel`cristi_an: yes as student20:53
cristi_anfor example there is NONE (except a stupid comercial thing ) in java that is similar to tryton client20:54
bechamel`cristi_an: i see python like java but without constrains20:54
cristi_ani mean the client is with desktop widgets but is a thin client it has not logic in it20:55
enlightxcristi_an: this is because java is not the right choice to develop such softwares :)20:55
cristi_anenlightx: plz elaborate.20:55
cristi_ananything that is in puthon you find in java20:55
enlightxcristi_an: no, really...is not the right language to develop client software20:55
carloscristi_an: AFAIK, OpenBravo's web client is supposed to be something like tryton's client20:56
enlightxeven if depends on the gui libs you use20:56
enlightxcarlos: but it's a web software20:56
cristi_ancarlos: excuse me (that is bull sh..)20:56
cristi_anopenbravo20:56
cristi_anslow as hell20:57
carloscristi_an: I said it's something like, not that is the same ;-)20:57
cristi_anconfiguration mess20:57
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cristi_anhttp://www.canoo.com/ulc/20:57
carlosenlightx: I know, but it's a client for a remote server20:57
enlightxcristi_an: perhaps compiere has a client gui written in java20:57
cristi_ani stuidied compier,adempiere20:57
carlosenlightx: I think it used to have one20:57
cristi_anin adempier i entered in the code20:57
cristi_anit is a nice piece of software for year 200020:58
cristi_anin 2000 it was the crown...20:58
cristi_annothing new was addded on top of Jorg;s code20:58
cristi_anexcept new modules20:58
enlightxhowever, the base framework is more important than the language itself20:58
cristi_anenlightx: i agreee with you...20:59
cristi_anbut adempiere has a thick client20:59
cristi_anvery heavy one20:59
enlightxi'v been a java developer for a lot of years but i never found a good object framework20:59
cristi_ani search weeks to find somethign similar in java20:59
enlightxcristi_an: you can use eclipse for instance21:00
cristi_anbut i did not found somehting similar with tryton .open erp21:00
cristi_anenlightx: what do you mena by object framework21:00
cristi_anso my question is WHY ?21:00
cristi_ansou to language ?21:01
cristi_andue21:01
cristi_ani doubt that nobody think of that21:01
cristi_anyou mean RCP ?21:03
enlightxcristi_an: if you have to develop something complex you can start from a blank page21:03
enlightxyou need ready classes21:03
enlightxready objects which describe users for example21:03
cristi_ancan or can't21:03
enlightxcan't sorry :)21:03
cristi_anyes there is hibernate ,jpa21:04
cristi_anyou may create the orm stuff in days for complex applications21:04
enlightxcristi_an: i don't want to build an orm :) i just want to reuse an existing one :)21:05
enlightxopenobject for example is a nice approach21:05
enlightxsimilar to the plone one21:05
cristi_anagree21:06
cristi_antryton has a similar base21:06
enlightxyes21:06
cristi_anbut there are orm in java21:07
cristi_ani just told you hibernate and jpa (eclipse link)21:07
cristi_anso you do not have to build them21:07
enlightxyes, but they aren't so flexible :)21:07
cristi_anjust use it21:07
cristi_anenlightx: i got you now :) what do you mean by that....21:07
cristi_antell me one thing that can be done in open object and can;t be done with a java orm21:08
cristi_ananyway tryon and open objects are differnt21:09
cristi_anthen hibernate21:09
enlightxit's not a matter of what you can or can't. the difference is the time you need to implement those things :)21:09
cristi_ando you know something similar with open object and tryton in java ?21:09
enlightxcristi_an: ibm lotus domino has a similar philosophy21:11
cristi_anlet me google it21:11
enlightxbut it's more than a framework21:11
cristi_anit would be very very nice to have such a thing in java....BUT21:12
cristi_anenlightx: what can be the reason not having such a thing ?21:12
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enlightxdevelop something similar to tryton from scrach requires a lot of time, with every language21:14
cristi_anenlightx: but my question was why this was not developed long time ago in java21:17
cristi_an?21:17
cristi_anmaybe starting now from 0 can take some time21:17
cristi_anbut i doubt it will not be a success21:17
cristi_ansince there is not such thing !!!21:17
cristi_annot that i know of  !!!!21:18
enlightxbecause they started a client side software and java is not the best choice in this case21:18
enlightxand also because python is the language of this century :)21:19
cristi_anbtw lotus domino is a monster...may be good for nike or addidas but not for us :)21:20
enlightxcristi_an: and it's not an erp :)21:20
enlightxi've started a comparison between dev framework21:20
cristi_ansounds interesting21:21
cristi_anany results ?21:21
enlightxyes... it relays on your needs :) ihih21:22
cristi_an:)21:23
cristi_anso where that comparsion may be seen :)21:23
cristi_an?21:23
enlightxbtw, it's not possibile to compare them... every framework has its own pros and cons21:24
carlosikks: hi21:59
ikkscarlos, how is it going?22:00
carlosikks: fine thanks, what about you?22:00
ikkseverything flowing :)22:00
carlosikks: I have some comments about the Spanish translation. Why did you use 'Manejo Financiero' and 'Gestión de compras' instead of using consistent translations like 'Gestión Financiera' and 'Gestión de compras' ?22:01
carlosACTION is talking about 1.0 version22:02
carlosI'm not sure whether you already fixed it with 1.122:02
ikksI haven't moved anything to 1.1 version.22:04
ikksBut you are certainly right.22:04
ikksIt should be 'Gestión'22:05
ikksA lot better22:05
ikksYour review is really important.22:05
ikksand makes sense.22:05
carlosikks: ok, I'm just starting using the client so now, I'm going to be able to give you some input22:06
ikksACTION have to rearrange all the environment to be able to get synced22:06
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carlosikks: btw, I'm not sure whether account_es (http://mercurial.intuxication.org/hg/account_es/) is a good name for the char of accounts in your country22:16
carlosikks: as far as I know, even if it's using lower case (lots of confusion... :-( ), the chart of accounts are for countries not languages22:16
carloscedk: couldn't we use capital letters instead of lower case ones to prevent confusions with language code vs country codes so we are consistent with other country codes usage?22:17
ikksthat's true, maybe better to look at it on the mailing list?22:18
carloshmm, anyway, what's account_es exactly? it doesn't look like a chart of accounts, but an account branch22:19
carlosikks: yeah, good idea22:19
carlosmail sent22:22
vengfulsquirrelCan anyone think of any major blockers to having assignation process choose substitutes for a given product ?(with custom code)  And also if there is anything that parallels that type of idea in an industry?22:51
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bechamel`vengfulsquirrel: i think it should be too difficult to overide the default behaviour for product assignation23:23
vengfulsquirrelbechamel`: should or shouldn't ?23:24
bechamel`vengfulsquirrel: all assignation work is mare in assign_try() in stock/product/py, one can imagine to inherit it (based on substitute relation between products)23:25
bechamel`vengfulsquirrel: sorry, should'nt23:25
bechamel`hem, shouldn't23:25
vengfulsquirrelYeah I was looking at assign_try, but I guess I wasn't sure what would happen when I was selling product A but when doing the packing I was substituting with product B.23:27
vengfulsquirrelI was more worried about it maybe confusing other modules, like I was selling 10 of product A but _really_ I was shipping 10 of product B.23:27
bechamel`vengfulsquirrel: maybe there could be a problem if the invoice is generated after the packing23:29
bechamel`vengfulsquirrel: but this can be easily tested, by changing "by hand" the product on the packing before assigning23:32
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bechamel`vengfulsquirrel: i tested and effectively if the invoice are created "On Packing Sent", the sale order consider that all product haven't been sent yet and it doesn't create the invoice. And it re-create an new customer packing with missing products (wrt the sale order)23:39
vengfulsquirrelbechamel`: Thanks! So that means I'd have to do more than just change around assign_try to plug in substitute products.23:41
vengfulsquirrelI think I was actually over-thinking my problem and I can do it with how tryton works now just with a little more work on the user's side.23:44
bechamel`vengfulsquirrel: yes, but i don't see what to change on the sale order to handle this23:44
bechamel`vengfulsquirrel: the biggest problem I see is:  which price to put on the invoice ?23:45
vengfulsquirrelbechamel`:  Oh well the substitute products wouldn't be saleable, I think I'm trying to solve my problem in the wrong area.23:47
vengfulsquirrelWhat does it mean for a product to be Consumable ?23:48
bechamel`vengfulsquirrel: it's a product that is stored (not a service) but on for which we do not want to track stock quantities23:49
bechamel`vengfulsquirrel: like small office furniture23:50

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