IRC logs of #tryton for Friday, 2009-02-20

chat.freenode.net #tryton log beginning Fri Feb 20 00:00:02 CET 2009
vengfulsquirrelX0d_of_N0d: hey do you have a minute now?00:32
X0d_of_N0dyeh, just got back from lunch00:42
X0d_of_N0dsup?00:42
vengfulsquirrelCan we go over one more time the purpose of bom revisions ?  Ha I know its like beating a dead horse.00:47
vengfulsquirrelRight now I was thinking bom's have a valid_from and valid_to date and are readonly once they are moved from Draft to Done.00:50
vengfulsquirrelAdditionally if you can clone an invalid/valid BOM to start a new BOM and there are multiple BOMs already that can be chosen from... what more is there to revisioning than just connecting one bom to its parent when its cloned ?00:50
vengfulsquirrelX0d_of_N0d: ^ (always forget to use labels)00:54
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X0d_of_N0dsorry I was away...01:20
X0d_of_N0dI actually found out that our company uses boms in a different way than my boss had described to me, so I'm actually a little confused right now myself01:22
vengfulsquirrelha terrific01:23
X0d_of_N0dlol01:23
X0d_of_N0dyeah01:23
X0d_of_N0dlemme01:23
X0d_of_N0dlemme think about this for a sec01:23
vengfulsquirrelI'm designing myself into oblivion01:23
X0d_of_N0dbom revisions allow for historical review for one...01:26
X0d_of_N0dbut as far as I can tell at this point, the way we use it here, it's mainly for historical record...01:26
X0d_of_N0dhowever it could be used for product tracking in crm... but I think what you've described would work with all that01:27
vengfulsquirrelWell do you think the explicit linking is even necessary?01:29
X0d_of_N0dbetween a cloned bom... I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about there.01:30
vengfulsquirrelSo like say you have a bom for a product right.01:30
vengfulsquirrelAnd you say well we can't use part X anymore01:30
X0d_of_N0dok01:30
vengfulsquirrelWe can only buy part Y now01:30
X0d_of_N0dok01:31
vengfulsquirrelSo you go to SOME interface and select the bom that is using part X and click clone01:31
vengfulsquirreland that fills out a new bom but that is in state DRAFT01:31
X0d_of_N0dthat01:31
vengfulsquirreland you change out X with Y01:31
vengfulsquirreland then you move it to state DONE01:31
vengfulsquirreland then you invalidate the bom with part X01:31
X0d_of_N0dthat would be a revision01:31
X0d_of_N0dwell...hum01:31
X0d_of_N0dyeah, ok, I see01:32
vengfulsquirrelI feel like revisioning beyond that kind of parent/child linking is excessive unless there is some government mandate.  If its for convenience you can always go back and look at the hiearchy using the parent/children relationships.01:33
X0d_of_N0dthe link between those two would be maintained in an ECR system, which is outside the realm of this module01:34
vengfulsquirrelWhat is an ECR system?01:34
X0d_of_N0dwell, actually plm... ecr would be part of it01:35
X0d_of_N0dproduct lifecycle managment01:35
X0d_of_N0dbasically you don't need to worry about it01:36
vengfulsquirrelHa right, okay well I think we could trivially add a draft editable parent bom field that could be used for history just for convenience01:37
vengfulsquirreland it would just be set to NULL if the parent is deleted of course01:37
X0d_of_N0dok01:37
vengfulsquirrelnothing restrictive01:37
vengfulsquirrelokay cool problem solved01:38
vengfulsquirrelNow I just have to resolve the inventory allocation issue and go over some stuff with cedk.01:40
X0d_of_N0dinventory allocation issue?01:41
vengfulsquirrelwell more like when and what moves should be created01:42
vengfulsquirrelI think I need to find a way to factor out the "putting away" the results of production because you and cedk both haven't liked it.  I feel like it should be addressed somewhere though.01:44
vengfulsquirrelThere are all still in the planning stage and there are a lot of innaccuracies:01:47
vengfulsquirrelhttp://mercurial.intuxication.org/hg/production/file/1b58450595f8/production.py01:47
vengfulsquirrelhttp://mercurial.intuxication.org/hg/production_substitute/file/c45cca6a3740/production.py01:47
vengfulsquirrelhttp://mercurial.intuxication.org/hg/production_phantom/file/279650660b21/production.py01:47
vengfulsquirrel*These are01:47
vengfulsquirrelbbl02:17
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udonocedk: good morning10:23
udonocedk: did you take a look at ldap_base module?10:23
cedkudono: quickly10:23
udonoACTION remember cedk did10:23
udonocedk: I have a little problem with States and on_change10:24
udonocedk: On ldap_server we have an anonymous bind checkbox. On change this to true Bind DN and Password should be deleted and set to readonly.10:25
udonocedk: this works so far, when there are some values inside, they are deleted. But on save the record, the old values from before are inserted.10:26
cedkudono: because readonly value are not sended by the client10:26
udonohttp://mercurial.intuxication.org/hg/ldap_base/file/022b6c17141b/ldap_base.py#l8410:27
udonocedk: ah, ok.10:27
udonocedk: so I need to remove the readonly10:28
cedkudono: I think it is better to hide the fields10:28
udonocedk: that's another option. Thanks10:29
cedkudono: and if you want to remove the value in the database, override write and add those fields10:29
udonocedk: yes. With this Iam able to let readonly stay?10:30
cedkudono: yes10:31
cedkudono: but I think more about any security issue to let the password in the database when the user think it was removed10:31
udonoACTION dislike hide often, because it makes jump/hop the view10:32
udonocedk: yes, agree. If someone deletes a password, it needed to delete in database, too.10:33
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CIA-10tryton: matb roundup * #797/Payment of invoices: always marked paid after Write-Off: [new] Supposed you have an invoice for 500,-. - make a payment for 100,-, ok - make a Write-Off for 100,- ok but now invoice is set to state paid ...13:25
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cristi_anwhen a report is done14:03
cristi_anwhat is the mechanism ?14:03
cristi_ani mean if i have to print an invoice14:04
cristi_anthe report is constructed locally ?14:04
cristi_anor the request is passed on server and the report is build there and i get the pdf from server14:04
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cristi_anudono: do you know ?14:25
udonocristi_an: yes, I know14:25
udonocristi_an: see inside module party e.g. there is the odt-template for the labels report on party.14:26
udonotrytond takes this report template odt and fill in all variables (this works over relatorio and genshi as template language)14:27
cristi_anudono: thx...14:29
cristi_anudono: so this is done on server side...14:29
udonocristi_an: then trytond deliver the odt-report to the client. The client opens the odt with an application able to handle odf.14:30
udonocristi_an: yes.14:30
cristi_anhmm not very optimal i say14:30
cristi_anfor all situattions14:31
cristi_anbut i will take a look to undestand better14:31
udonocristi_an: I like it a lot. The best reportparser I've seen. Thanks to nicoe and Gedd from openhex14:31
nicoeACTION blushes14:32
udonocristi_an: the pdf creation is a little bit advanced. There you need an openoffice-headless installation on the serversite. And the module openoffice.interact from htgoebel. Then the tryton server pipes the parsed document to openoffice and receives the pdf. The pdf is then sended to the client...14:33
cristi_anudono: w8 :)14:33
cristi_anso you mentioned : realtorio,genshi,reportparser from open hex,openoffice,htgoebel14:34
cristi_anall this for reporting14:34
GeddACTION blushes too :)14:35
cristi_anwhy tryoton do not use elixir ?14:38
cristi_an(just look ever openhex site)14:38
cristi_anGedd: OpenHexperience IS SOMETHING LIEK OPENOBJECT OR TRYTON BASE ?14:39
cristi_ansorry for caps14:39
Geddcristi_an: yep14:39
cristi_anwow14:39
cristi_anGedd: and withg sql alcehmy14:39
cristi_ani hope14:39
Geddyes14:39
cristi_anhehe14:39
Geddelixir/SA14:39
cristi_ansounds ..niceeee14:39
cristi_anyee14:40
cristi_anmeaning any db engine14:40
cristi_anbehind ?14:40
cristi_annot tight up on postgress14:40
Geddyes14:41
cristi_anand ...what is the status of that ?14:42
Geddhard to say14:42
cristi_anis in project phase not code at all /14:42
cristi_an?14:42
Geddno, we have lots of code already14:42
Geddit's been in development for a while14:43
Geddsee hg.openhex.org14:43
Geddbut it's not yet ready for public consumption14:43
Geddmaybe we should discuss this on another channel14:44
cristi_ani see14:44
cristi_anand the ideea is the same14:44
cristi_anlike a client that act like a browser (a thin client)14:44
cristi_anmuch of the logic on server side ?14:44
Geddyes14:44
cristi_andestop clinet ?14:44
cristi_anand web or wer cleint ?14:44
Geddfor now the most complete client is the web one14:45
Geddbut even that one isn't full-featured yet14:45
Geddnicoe is currently working on a gtk client too14:46
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cristi_anbtw relatorio is used by open erp as well ?14:47
nicoecristi_an, they should but they wont14:49
nicoe:)14:49
cristi_anGedd: teniis ?14:50
cristi_an:)14:50
cristi_ani bet i give you 6-0 ,0-6,7-614:51
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udonocristi_an: relatorio, genshi, openoffice.interact and openoffice is even a better reporting engine than e.g. jasper reports ever can be - for office solutions.14:51
cristi_anpardon me jasper is quite ok...14:52
cristi_anif this is better then i am happy...14:52
cristi_andepsite jasper is very very mature14:52
cristi_ani used it since 200314:52
Geddudono: it's nice to see someone so enthusiastic, but aren't you exaggerating a bit?14:53
udonocristi_an: Is jasper reports able generate presentations, spreatsheets, textdocuments, odf, ods, odt, dox, docx, xls or latexdocuments?14:54
cristi_anmany types...of docs14:55
cristi_anyou can do anything with it (it is done by a romanian guy :) )14:55
cristi_anbte open erp what is usign for reports ?14:56
udonocristi_an: sw2rml2pdf14:56
udonosrry sxw2rml2pdf14:57
cristi_anhave no clue what is that...14:57
cristi_ani assume not as good as relatorio14:57
udonocristi_an: with lost of format informations14:57
carloscristi_an: they use StarOffice documents as the base14:57
carlosthen convert it to rml file format which is an old report format with many limitations14:57
udonocristi_an: they use an intermediate format called rml report markup language14:58
carlosand from there, they convert it to PDF14:58
udonocristi_an: can you create jasperreports in openoffice?14:58
cristi_anGedd: when you desing you gtk client14:58
carlosat least, from my own experience, it's a hell...14:58
cristi_anmake possbile to generate reports on client14:58
carloscristi_an: however, they seem to have now a module that uses jasper14:59
carlosbut not in the core14:59
Geddcarlos: from my experience, RML is a good report format. The problem is the conversion from sxw to RML which is flaky14:59
cristi_anudono: no14:59
carlosGedd: it may be the problem14:59
Geddcristi_an: why?14:59
cristi_anGedd: there are a lot of situatuin where this round trip of data is not necessary15:00
cristi_anassume you print an invoice15:00
cristi_anyou have all data on client side15:00
cristi_anwhy not to generate the invoice there15:00
cristi_anwithout this roundtrip15:00
cristi_anof getting the pds15:00
cristi_anpdf15:00
carloscristi_an: because you then need to move the logic from the server to the client...15:01
udonocristi_an: so using relatorio, genshi, openoffice.interact and openoffice uses only one known application for creating templates AND creating the final documents: OpenOffice15:01
carloscristi_an: with relatorio the only difference is who generates the PDF, either the server or the client using OpenOffice15:02
cristi_ani see15:02
carlosand all the logic to fill the OpenOffice document is in a single place, the server15:02
Geddbecause 1) the client *might* have out of date information 2) you'd have to bundle a hell of a lot of things with the client, and that'd make installing the client a pain 3) there is no real roundtrip for the data (it doesn't come from the client). The only "issue" is the download time of the generated report. In most situations, this is not an issue.15:03
cristi_anGedd: thx...whole my life i built fat clients Swing + Jdbc15:03
cristi_anso i have ion my blood some habbits :)15:03
cristi_anit makes sens what you and carlos said + uduno15:04
udonoGedd: the german accountlist has 250 pages. The parsing part takes just some seconds, but opening the document in openoffice clientsite takes a minute :-)15:05
cristi_ana 250 ,500 pages doc opening in jasper take the same more then 1 min15:05
cristi_an250-50015:05
udonocristi_an: on the CeBIT exibition I will try out how long it takes as pdf...15:06
cristi_anypu go to CeBit15:07
cristi_an?15:07
cristi_anas firm  to sell you services etc ... ?15:07
Timitoscristi_an: Tryton can be seen on cebit: http://www.tryton.org/news.html15:07
udonocristi_an: yes, yangoon, Timitos, bechamel and me are on the cebit with Tryton :-)15:08
udonocristi_an: you like a ticket and meet us?15:08
udonoanyone like tickets for the cebit?15:08
cristi_ani would like to go there to meet you15:08
cristi_anbut time....15:08
cristi_anbut being on cebit is really gr8 for tryton15:09
cristi_anthe only drawback on tryton...is that only 2 persons know the core...and sicen docs there are a few realted to this...15:10
cristi_anif they leave,or who knwos....15:10
cristi_anthe project is too dependent on them....15:11
cristi_anso no plan for docs related to core ?15:11
udonocristi_an: see trytond/doc15:11
Timitoscristi_an: so lets support cedk and bechamel. if they have work with tryton they won´t leave the project. and with time there will be some more people knowing the core15:12
cristi_anTimitos: that is my only fear...15:12
cristi_ani hoep you are right15:12
udonocristi_an: So we have two more persons knowing the core then some other known projects ;-)15:13
yangoonudono: :D15:13
cristi_anudono: you master core ?15:14
cristi_anthat is excellent15:14
udonocristi_an: me? no I am just stupid15:14
cristi_anudono: common don;t play the modest role15:15
cristi_ani just want to know if ai can rely on something....15:15
udonocristi_an: but cedk and bechamel are two more persons than other known projects have.15:15
cristi_anon a stable base (foundation)15:15
udonocristi_an: like you say with the cebit, it's a matter of time to master the core15:16
udonocristi_an: I know module API well and some three monts client coding.15:16
cristi_an"but cedk and bechamel are two more persons than other known projects have" ?15:16
cristi_anudono: that is exceleny15:17
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CIA-10tryton: ced roundup * #797/Payment of invoices: always marked paid after Write-Off: [need-eg] How do you make a write-off 100 ?18:50
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CIA-10tryton: Timitos roundup * #798/patch for moving price computation of invoice into product.product: [new] as discussed with cedk yesterday this is my patch for account_invoice. I saw that there are already functions for sale and purchase on prod ...19:43
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vengfulsquirrelcedk: Hey what do you think of this ?  http://www.laspilitas.com/tryton/production-order-states.png20:50
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udonovengfulsquirrel: this looks very good21:25
udonovengfulsquirrel: I investigated a bit about the assembly of products we discussed before some time. Finaly the BOM is the part of your model, which we can share if it is an own module without dependencies to production and stock.21:27
vengfulsquirrelOh you wouldn't use the stock or production modules ?21:28
udonovengfulsquirrel: for production it is good.21:29
udonovengfulsquirrel: but for the assembly out of goods and services its bad.21:29
udonovengfulsquirrel: But bundle products are made of a BOM too.21:30
udonovengfulsquirrel: so when we have a generic BOM Module for all kinds of Products, we both can use it21:30
vengfulsquirrelHmm yeah that might be like trying to make one thing be two things at once.21:31
vengfulsquirrelI think we should probably create a different module for bundles.21:31
udonovengfulsquirrel: No, because a product is a product, one thing. With your idea you try to separate products in goods and services.21:33
vengfulsquirrelHmm I think bundles are trying to serve a different purpose though.21:34
vengfulsquirrelEspecially if you are not using the stock and production modules.21:35
vengfulsquirrelBundles seem to be just for accounting and/or stock purposes.21:35
vengfulsquirrelCan you explain to me again exactly what you would need ?  Like in the format of a Use-Case.21:37
vengfulsquirreludono: ^21:37
udonovengfulsquirrel: when we have general BOM for products, and specialities for goods (production) and services (timesheet), its more clean for me. But BOM of a product is everytime a collection of all pre-products. Some pre-products are produced (Goods, resource), some are bought (foreign-services), some are made by employees(own-services, human resources).21:39
udonovengfulsquirrel: or is your BOM a something like a production plan?21:41
udonovengfulsquirrel: I need a BOM without strict dependencies to stock and production.21:48
udonovengfulsquirrel: E.g. on Sales you sell a computer for $999, the computer is made of different parts (goods) and services (HR). Your production plans the goods. and a HR module plans the services. Only with this all tis informations together we can find out the cost price of a product.21:52
vengfulsquirrelYeah that makes sense to me but you still need production and stock for that to work.21:53
udonovengfulsquirrel: but not for services21:53
udonovengfulsquirrel: only for goods21:53
vengfulsquirrelRight yeah the production module would just ignore services21:53
vengfulsquirrelSo maybe a bom could be used by either production and/or hr.21:54
udonoso the question: is that what you name a BOM a 'production plan'?21:54
vengfulsquirrelThe production module is just going to ignore srvices since nothing needs to be allocated.21:54
udonoor is it a BOM21:54
vengfulsquirrelI don't really know the difference21:54
vengfulsquirrelIts just a list of products needed to make another product.21:54
vengfulsquirrelIf one of the products in the list is a service it will just ignore it since right now it only handles pulling and pushing from storage and managing the start/stop times.21:55
udonovengfulsquirrel: that's good. I can include services in the BOM but production don't care?21:56
cedkvengfulsquirrel: looks good21:57
vengfulsquirrelHa well remind me when I actually write it but that seems simple enough right ?  If its mentioned in the bom and its a service I won't even have to pull it into the production input.21:57
cedkvengfulsquirrel: except that I don't see the use of assigned moves from prodcution to storage21:57
udonovengfulsquirrel: When you make bom as an own module everything will be easy21:57
cedkudono: BOM = bill of material21:57
cedkudono: it is used only for stockable product21:58
udonocedk: hump21:58
vengfulsquirrelcedk: Well instead of doing it automatically I just assumed people would want to review the moves before they are done.  That way I can add that optional "put it away where it should go" functionality.21:58
cedkudono: the time spend for the production can be added on the BOM put it must be on an other module21:59
vengfulsquirrelcedk: Yeah you think it should intentionally exclude non-stockable products ?22:00
cedkvengfulsquirrel: but it doesn't need to be a assignation of product22:00
cedkvengfulsquirrel: it is just a state of the production order22:00
cedkvengfulsquirrel: yes, production is only move product22:00
udonocedk: so we need something on a higher level for this... but how is it named?22:00
cedkvengfulsquirrel: you don't produce services22:00
vengfulsquirrelYeah but production would just ignore the services.22:01
cedkvengfulsquirrel: you can imagine added services information on BOM with an other module to compute the cost price22:02
cedkudono: I don't think except if you have a case22:02
vengfulsquirrelcedk: Are you saying I should just leave the moves in draft state for review ?22:03
cedkvengfulsquirrel: yes22:04
vengfulsquirrelcedk: Okay, also I think I'm a little confused still about the to/from.22:04
vengfulsquirrelShould there just be exactly one location of type production per warehouse and moves are made to and from that ?22:04
cedkvengfulsquirrel: assignation means in Tryton I "book" those products22:04
cedkvengfulsquirrel: and normally you must not change assigned moves22:05
cedkvengfulsquirrel: they must be considered like done22:05
vengfulsquirrelRight so to assign a move on some products is to block another move from being assigned to those products.22:05
cedkvengfulsquirrel: yes22:05
cedkvengfulsquirrel: by default one production location, but it can have many locations22:05
vengfulsquirrelcedk: Well I've made some notes about lowering their quantities but not increasing them, for example if you turned out using less of a material than was expected for some reason.22:05
cedkvengfulsquirrel: it depends of each one22:06
vengfulsquirrelyikes, why many ?22:06
cedkvengfulsquirrel: I think for extra/under product quantity, it must be better to create a new move22:06
cedkvengfulsquirrel: like that we keep history of what happens22:07
cedkvengfulsquirrel: I don't know why many, perhaps to separate different production lines22:07
vengfulsquirrelHm, so move 10 into production and then what you don't use move back ?22:07
cedkvengfulsquirrel: but it must be a configuration choice22:08
cedkvengfulsquirrel: and by default there will be only one22:08
cedkother topics: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openobject-addons/+bug/33124522:09
cedkdid you see I find bugs in OpenERP without using it :-)22:10
vengfulsquirrelHa nice work22:11
vengfulsquirrelhey I was reading about the left/right22:13
vengfulsquirrelI think that is commonly referred to as the Nested Sets model, does that sound right ?22:13
vengfulsquirrelversus Adjacency List model22:14
cedkvengfulsquirrel: I know it with this name: Modified Preorder Tree Traversal22:17
udonocedk: another topic: module ldap_base and ldap_auth: did I need to be aware of company?22:19
vengfulsquirrelcedk: I still need to update the state/location information we have talked about on the original model but I started the other modules so you could see what I meant by making them as extensions:22:20
vengfulsquirrelhttp://mercurial.intuxication.org/hg/production/file/23196e765ec0/production.py22:20
vengfulsquirrelhttp://mercurial.intuxication.org/hg/production_phantom/file/279650660b21/production.py22:20
vengfulsquirrelhttp://mercurial.intuxication.org/hg/production_substitute/file/c45cca6a3740/production.py22:20
cedkudono: I don't think except if you want to store company information on LDAP22:20
udonocedk: I don't think so, because all companys are mastered in one database on one machine.22:21
udonocedk: yes, that's right22:21
udonocedk: for storing company information you can create another ldap_resource.22:22
CIA-10tryton: cedric.krier@b2ck.com * r439 /wiki/Release_1_2_0.wiki: Edited wiki page through web user interface.22:23
udonocedk: but ldap authentication to a ldap resource is better on company side, I would say. One authentication method for all company users.22:23
udonoACTION winks X0d_of_N0d22:24
cedkvengfulsquirrel: I don't think it is good to create phatom product.product22:25
cedkvengfulsquirrel: I would prefer a new model22:26
vengfulsquirrelWell it just kind of complicates everything to have a different model.22:27
cedkudono: I think if you use one database for many companies then it is not a problem to have one LDAP for authentication of users22:28
cedkudono: and by the way, user can switch from one company to an other22:28
vengfulsquirrelcedk: You mean like new model as in 'production.phantom' ?22:33
cedkvengfulsquirrel: yes22:33
vengfulsquirrelWhat if it has to be stocked ?22:33
cedkvengfulsquirrel: it can not because it is phatom22:34
vengfulsquirrelcedk: I think almost all of the time yes, but when we start doing work in progress stuff, I think sometimes if a production is stopped early you could be left with phantom assemblies that you have to stock.22:36
vengfulsquirrelWhat are the problems of using the existed product.product model ?22:36
cedkvengfulsquirrel: so you create the product and you make moves like for over/under quantity22:37
cedkvengfulsquirrel: it is bad because you can not sale it, you normally don't stock it22:37
cedkvengfulsquirrel: it is not a real product22:38
vengfulsquirrelYeah but you already can have products you cannot sell22:38
cedkvengfulsquirrel: and sometimes it is something that doesn't exist22:39
-!- cristi_an(i=5978d3ce@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3fc3275936cfa16f) has joined #tryton22:41
cristi_ancedk: nice ideea22:43
cristi_anwith the shop !!!22:43
cedkcristi_an: it is bechamel's idea22:44
vengfulsquirrelcedk: Yeah okay well that definitely will ruin the existing model so I'll have to think about it I guess.22:56
vengfulsquirrelget_db_and_pool has been removed and replaced with ?  (db, pool) = (Database(dbname), Pool(dbname)) ?23:11
cedkvengfulsquirrel: yes23:12
cedkbut normally on module side you don't need it23:12
vengfulsquirrelThanks, its for an import script.23:13
vengfulsquirrelcedk: Sorry, what about wkf_service.WorkflowService()?23:21
X0d_of_N0d udono: hey23:21
cedkvengfulsquirrel: the workflow function are now on the models23:21
cedkvengfulsquirrel: see trytond/model/modelworkflow.py23:22
vengfulsquirrelHmm so I don't have to start any sort of service?23:24
vengfulsquirrelI'm trying to use the API directly from python.23:25
cedkvengfulsquirrel: no23:25
vengfulsquirrelhttp://paste.lisp.org/submit23:25
vengfulsquirrelopps23:25
cedkvengfulsquirrel: just call register_classes23:25
vengfulsquirrelhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/7588423:26
cedkvengfulsquirrel: you can remove wkf_service.WorkflowService()23:26
vengfulsquirrelOkay thanks23:27

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