IRC logs of #tryton for Wednesday, 2009-09-16

chat.freenode.net #tryton log beginning Wed Sep 16 00:00:02 CEST 2009
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vengfulsquirrelcedk: Is there anything else holding up those 2 doc issues?08:31
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cedkvengfulsquirrel: I don't know08:47
cedkvengfulsquirrel: at least a patch08:48
vengfulsquirrelcedk: isn't the patch on coderreview?08:48
vengfulsquirrel*codereview08:48
cedkvengfulsquirrel: you must attach a final patch in roundup with commit comment08:49
CIA-2vengfulsquirrel roundup * #1117/Report Documentation: Final patch.09:00
CIA-2http://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue111709:00
vengfulsquirrelforgot issue number again09:01
vengfulsquirrelevery time09:02
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gourmorning09:04
gouri'm thinking about writing tryton-tutorial, kind of extended version of helloWorld...something like stripped-down version of 'party' module with some other module which iherits and/or modifies it... from it09:06
gourwhat do you think about it?09:06
gouri'd need help from the devs to fill the holes in the 'template' :-)09:06
gours/from it//09:06
vengfulsquirrelgour: I like your enthusiam but why not just extend the helloworld document?  Otherwise there will be two things to maintain.09:08
CIA-2Ian Wilson <ian@laspilitas.com> default * 2016:1108fa9bbe5b trytond/doc/reports.rst: Added basic reports documentation.09:09
CIA-2http://hg.tryton.org/trytond/rev/1108fa9bbe5b09:09
CIA-2ced roundup * #1117/Report Documentation: [resolved] Applied09:09
CIA-2http://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue111709:09
gourvengfulsquirrel: well, helloWorld does not have much 'business' logic in it, the model would have to be reworked anyway. moreover, i'm thinking about tutorial.rst, i.e. something which will become part of official docs and maintained under VCS...i'm not wiki fan09:10
CIA-2vengfulsquirrel roundup * #1118/Doc: Explaination of on_change, on_change_with and default for fields.: Final patch.09:13
CIA-2http://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue111809:13
vengfulsquirrelgour: yeah but the wiki has less privilege restrictons than the trunk, so for example I can make changes to it09:14
vengfulsquirrelgour: Maybe we just need more business logic in that example?09:15
gourvengfulsquirrel: that's right...still i'd post my 'tutorial' as patch for review, so that other devs can fix/add stuff. what do you think?09:15
CIA-2Ian Wilson <ian@laspilitas.com> default * 2017:6cdfd212a1df trytond/doc/models.rst: Added examples of on_change, on_change_with and default for issue1118.09:16
CIA-2http://hg.tryton.org/trytond/rev/6cdfd212a1df09:16
gouri believe it would be nice that tryton has more elaborate tutorial as part of the docs09:16
CIA-2ced roundup * #1118/Doc: Explaination of on_change, on_change_with and default for fields.: [resolved] Applied09:16
CIA-2http://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue111809:16
gourcedk: ^^^ what do you think?09:16
vengfulsquirrelgour: Yeah but we need to take more load off the core developers instead of possibly adding more load onto them. So by putting it in the wiki it means one more thing they don't have to worry about.09:18
cedkgour: I don't like to put tutorial into the doc because it is too complicated/difficult to maintain09:19
gourvengfulsquirrel: heh, but i cannot write it myself, i'm just beginning to learn, so more experienced tryton-devs has to gibe their input as well...even cedk was fixing wiki09:19
gourcedk: what is the difficutly?09:19
gour*difficulty09:20
vengfulsquirrelgour: yeah but he can fix the wiki whenever its not going to possibly break anything in trunk09:20
gourvengfulsquirrel: how could tutorial doc break anything? otoh, i believe that some basic tutorial will be relevant for long time...if the things are changing so rapidly in tryton, then one has to maintain wiki as well09:22
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vengfulsquirrelgour: right the tutorial could not break anything but the documentation would be contained in the same repository as trytond so you can't just apply any patch09:33
gourvengfulsquirrel: hmm, i don't get it...isn't it the policy that every patch is reviewed? i also posted 'my' doc-patch who was applied in trytond's trunk...09:35
vengfulsquirrelgour: yes exactly, they must be reviewed, which is the problem09:36
vengfulsquirrelgour: Do you see what I mean ?09:36
gourvengfulsquirrel: but every patch is reviewed? doesn't tryton have something like kernel-model?09:37
gourthere can be one dev as leader of the doc-team (which is, anyway) missing and all the patches about the docs go to him09:38
vengfulsquirrelgour: Yeah I have thought about this before, but it seems like too much work just for a tutorial.  Maybe when there are many more developers it would make sense.09:41
gourvengfulsquirrel: heh, catch-22...how will you make more devs without sufficient docs? maybe you're not fans of 'producingoss' :-D09:42
gourvengfulsquirrel: it's not JUST a tutotrial, but THE tutorial ;)09:42
vengfulsquirrelgour: Regardless, a tutorial must exist before either case.  I think extending the helloworld example is the best route, or making it part of a bigger tutorial.09:42
udonogour: for me it is enough to have One good and well maintained introductional tutorial for devs to come into tryton devs.09:45
udonogour: our problems are API docs and user docs IMHO09:45
gourvengfulsquirrel: another point why making tutorial part of the docs...i'd like that it fully explains every line in the *.xml, i.e. what each parameter does and why it is used, giving further links to API docs09:45
gourACTION agrees with udono 150%09:46
gourACTION thinks that http://code.google.com/p/tryton/wiki/ProjectOrganization needs another subsection under 'Sub-projects' called 'Docs'09:48
vengfulsquirrelgour: Maybe not every line but linking to relevant documentation after major explainations would be good.  Well I have to go to sleep, but I'll keep thinking about the what and where of a tutorial.09:48
gourvengfulsquirrel: thanks. g'night09:48
udonovengfulsquirrel: sleep well09:48
gourthe tutorial work can be done only with those interested for it, not bothering other core-devs...until it's ready for review before applying...09:49
udonogour: yes, but tutorial is for me a community generated and maintained documentation. So its best place is in the wiki IMHO. API doc and user reference on the other side is job of tryton project developer.09:54
gourudono: i do not fully agree...for me the tutorial should be part of official docs - it's a bridge  user-docs <---> developer doc09:56
udonogour: you see the coverage of the API doc and user doc, there is enough to do for the project devs. It is not helpful to have another half written document inside Tryton.09:56
udonogour: yes, but only if it is prooved, nearby finished and if it has a maintainer who is responsible.09:57
gourmoreover, tryton is framework, so there is not much to be said about using it, but it requires explanation how to 'use' it by extending the core functionality09:58
gourudono: that's why i said that there is need for Doc-subproject09:58
gourudono: btw, what do you consider user-doc in the present doc?09:59
gourwiki should be for 'side-documents'09:59
gour(imho)09:59
udonogour: Modules doc and client doc.10:00
udono= user-doc10:01
udonogour: our agreement in the project is: high quality reference doc delivered with tryton. Everything else is side-doc, community maintained or not.10:02
gourudono: hmm, considering empty chapters for wizard, reports and workflow :-)10:03
udonogour: so you see, there is no need to have another unfinished document in the trunk...10:07
gourudono: who said to put unfinished document in the trunk? i'm speaking about the opposite - to write basic tutorial for tryton development explaining basic things (with reference to the API) like creating module, about actions, extending the module's functionality by another module which inherits from the 1st one..with some simple 'business logic' (using Model's methods)..all these divided in few incremental10:12
gour steps with few screenshots...and i believe that such basic tutorial can serve for a long time without the need to maintain it much...btw, how old are e.g. (py)gtk+ tutorials?10:12
udonogour: Screenshots needed to be replaced every Version of tryton if the doc is inside the framework.10:17
gourudono: well, that's twice a year, right?10:18
udonogour: tutorial targets mostly dev-user needs. These needs are as flexible as we have users. So it needs to be quickly changed.10:19
udonogour: yes, twice a year. You know what this mean?10:20
udonogour: in uestions of working hours?10:20
gourudono: isn't the above explanation of the use-case some kind of common-denominator to develop in tryton? we're speaking about sufficient docs to make initial learning curve less steep, not about all the intricacies of the platform which one can (hopefully) find out by browsing the API doc10:23
udonogour: why not build a collaborative wiki document where everyone can participate the easy way in real time?10:24
gourudono: i.e, i believe there is no need to constantly change tutorial...even the shots can remain the same for some time saying they're from the older (still maintained) release, which practically means (depending on the life cycle for the release) changing them once in 12/18/x months10:25
gourudono: first of all i cannot edit wiki, but, yes, we can start on wiki and after finishing moving it to the docs10:28
udonogour: yes, that's the way I try to explain.10:29
udonosend your gmail address to cedk and he will give you project participation10:30
udono/participation/access10:32
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gourudono: it should be already known since i was posting patch for review10:37
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gourudono: to be honest, i'd be more happy that we write in rst and keep tutorial under vcs as one 'module' instead of fiddling with another one wiki syntax :-/11:13
udonoyes, just open a mercurial repos anywhere and tell your ambition, the target audience, goals and the link on the mailing list. Only problem I see are visible screeshots...11:44
udonogour: but expect minor collaboration since creating patches is more work then editing a wikipage11:45
gourudono: ok. we can produce shots and include 'em in the repo? should i write tutorial.rst as part/fork of docs directory, so that's easier to hyperlink or to use external links?11:46
gourudono: ok, but at least is easier to orient with dvcs then fiddling with wiki's history11:47
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udonogour: google wiki is vcs11:50
gourudono: svn?11:50
udonohttp://code.google.com/p/tryton/source/browse/wiki11:50
udonogour: yes11:50
gourudono: another reason to stay with rst ;)11:51
gourhmm11:52
gouri'll reconsider wiki after inspecting wiki syntax a bit...maybe i could write offline and then commit...let's see11:53
udonogour: ok11:53
gourudono: what about http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2009/04/mercurial-support-for-project-hosting.html ?11:58
gourudono: see http://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/ConvertingSvnToHg12:01
gour(step 4)12:01
udonogour: tell cedk, I have no administration account on google.12:01
gourudono: well, cedk is the top-guy and i'm at the bottom...that's why i'm canvassing someone above me, not the bdfl :-)12:02
gourudono: ok, let's make, for the sake of tryton, a compromise...using wiki (converted to hg) as the birthplace for tryton-tutorial. i've installed moinmoin (google's wiki is subset of it) mode for emacs, fetched wiki from svn and it looks good-enough to tolerate it and writing with it so we can instant gratification online and (hopefully) non-minor contribution. is the deal ok?12:20
udonogour: yes, sounds ok for me.12:21
gourudono: cool12:25
udonogour: so the tutorial stays at it place on google?12:26
gourudono: yes, until it's polished enough to be incorporated in the docs...maybe we can start a new page named Tutorial?12:27
udonogour: I don't know.12:28
gourit should provide more than helloWorld12:28
udonogour: Tutorial is to general. Give it a real name what it does. But who know in the beginning of a Tutorial what it does on the end? I would start to extend the hello world, after finishing, the name will be obvious12:30
gourudono: almost every project has tutorial. otoh, if we start fiddling with helloWorld example, maybe there won't be any complete & working example for new people to try. old page would be gone and new one not ready12:32
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udonogour is it a tutorial for users, for sale, for accounting, purchase or development. Is it a tutorial for connecting via XMLRPC ?12:34
udonogour: and I would talk a word with the original author of the tutorial...12:34
gourudono: for starting the development on tryton platform - like a tiny openrep's developer book - tp://doc.openerp.com/developer/index.html#book-develop-link12:36
gouroops - http://doc.openerp.com/developer/index.html#book-develop-link12:37
gourudono: if we start new page, then we can credit the original author12:39
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CIA-2matb roundup * #1179/Category of event is not attached to event: [new] When creating an event with a category in iceowl, this category is created in tryton, (I can select it), but it is not added for this event.13:36
CIA-2http://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue117913:36
CIA-2matb roundup * #1177/UUID and recurrence must be unique in a calendar!: [closed] Reading http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/releases/lightning0.9.html#issues it is quite possible, that I ran into one of those bug ...13:38
CIA-2http://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue117713:38
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CIA-2ced roundup * #1179/Category of event is not attached to event: [need-eg] Could not reproduce.14:13
CIA-2http://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue117914:13
CIA-2matb roundup * #1179/Category of event is not attached to event: Screenshot uploaded to clarify issue.14:22
CIA-2http://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue117914:22
CIA-2ced roundup * #1179/Category of event is not attached to event:14:27
CIA-2I understand.14:27
CIA-2When I said I can not reproduce, it is because I can not reproduce because it is working.14:27
CIA-2http://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue117914:27
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CIA-2Bertrand Chenal <bch@b2ck.com> default * 2018:42520022f85c trytond/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Handle sequence and history renaming when renaming table15:04
CIA-2http://hg.tryton.org/trytond/rev/42520022f85c15:04
CIA-2Bertrand Chenal <bch@b2ck.com> default * 338:3396e36728e5 purchase/ (8 files): Migrate packing* objects and tables to shipment*15:05
CIA-2http://hg.tryton.org/modules/purchase/rev/3396e36728e515:05
CIA-2Bertrand Chenal <bch@b2ck.com> default * 213:0c34052bb9c3 sale/ (7 files): Migrate packing* objects and tables to shipment*15:05
CIA-2http://hg.tryton.org/modules/sale/rev/0c34052bb9c315:05
CIA-2Bertrand Chenal <bch@b2ck.com> default * 592:2ec77957bc57 stock/ (18 files): Migrate packing* objects and tables to shipment*15:05
CIA-2http://hg.tryton.org/modules/stock/rev/2ec77957bc5715:05
CIA-2Bertrand Chenal <bch@b2ck.com> default * 203:75ada7a1205a stock_supply/ (10 files): Migrate packing* objects and tables to shipment*15:05
CIA-2http://hg.tryton.org/modules/stock_supply/rev/75ada7a1205a15:05
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MarkusBok, i'll give my best ^^17:31
MarkusBhi17:31
udonoMarkusB: hi.17:31
udonoMarkusB: this channel is logged on http://www.tryton.org/~irclog/17:32
udonoFYI17:32
MarkusBok17:33
MarkusBudono, i still try to understand what groups are for. are they for controlling the visibility for user or admins?17:36
udonoMarkusB: yes, they are controling the menu access17:37
MarkusBfor example: what happend, if i remove in account.xml the "group_account_admin" from the menuitem "Financial Management"?17:37
udonoBTW MarkusB: gour and me talked today about improvments for the devel docs. especially http://code.google.com/p/tryton/wiki/HelloWorld maybe you find some helpful hints inside the document17:38
MarkusBudono, ok17:38
udonoMarkusB: gours goal is to create a Tutorial which show the first steps for coding in Tryton17:39
MarkusBudono, than you need to explain for example, what a model is. I have some ideas, but it's not enough17:41
MarkusBbut let me reed the tutorial17:42
udonoMarkusB: maybe this helps a bit: http://doc.tryton.org/1.2/tryton/doc/glossary.html17:43
MarkusBa bit17:44
udonoMarkusB: then this: http://doc.tryton.org/1.2/trytond/doc/models.html17:44
MarkusBudono, the tutorial has the same problem as many other tutorials. It shows you step by step how to create a a Module, but it did'nt explain anything. It should minimum link words like view or model to the Glossary. Because nobody finds the Glossary on tryton.org if the tutorial is on google.com17:54
udono...and the Glossary is user-oriented, not deep enough for the devs...17:56
MarkusByes, but it gives a minimum information for the tutorial reader. I know, what a view is, but i dont know, if Tryton means the same18:00
jerojasrowoakas: /part18:01
MarkusBand maybe you can link from the Glossary to the more detailed documentation.18:01
jerojasrooops, sorry18:01
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udonoMarkusB: yes, that's one goal gour mentioned in the morning. see the chatlog...18:02
MarkusBok, reading chatlogs is booring and takes to much time ;)18:05
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gourACTION returned back home and reading the backlog19:53
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