IRC logs of #tryton for Sunday, 2010-02-21

chat.freenode.net #tryton log beginning Sun Feb 21 00:00:02 CET 2010
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Paynehi , anyone home. I just became aware of tryton and I had a question about possibly using tryton for a Point of sale project22:30
petrusPayne: what do you exactly mean by "point of sale project"?22:44
Paynehi22:44
PayneI have a project22:44
Paynein an industrial setting22:44
Paynethat they need a point of sale terminal22:45
Paynethat backends to the erp system22:45
Payneto input some data22:45
Payneto update parts usage at a remte site22:45
Payneremote site22:45
Paynetryton looks as a good framework to build the solution22:46
Paynehowever22:46
PayneI cannot assume continuous network access between the client and server22:46
Paynethus some kind of disconnected mode would be necessary22:47
Paynedoes that clarify things?22:48
petrusPayne: yes22:48
PayneI think a disconnected mode would be generally useful as well22:49
Payneso I am willing to work on it22:49
Paynemaybe a solution like syncml22:49
PayneI know that openerp has a synchro module22:50
PayneBut as I am relatively new to tryton22:50
PayneI thought I would ask here and on the mailing list list22:50
vengfulsquirrelI don't think such a thing exists but people have talked a few times about working on some point of sale solution.22:51
PayneI think it is critical22:52
Payneto the usability of the project22:52
vengfulsquirrelI wrote a wizard in tryton that kind of works like point of sale but as its in the client it requires an active internet connection.22:52
petrusPayne: I am new here too, just in the evaluating phase22:52
Paynesame here22:52
PayneI actually have an active openerp project22:52
Paynebut I think tryton seems more focused22:53
Paynethan openerp22:53
petrusPayne: what I have seen so far a general disconnect mode would be difficult22:53
petrusPayne: however for you problem, you client may batch up the transactions loacally22:54
Payneusing what mechanism?22:54
petrusPayne: than it can push them up when connected22:54
Paynefrom I see22:55
petrusPayne: I guess you would need some kind of local DB, not necessarily postgres22:55
Payneyes22:55
PayneIt can be done22:56
Paynebut it would be better to have it part of tryton22:56
vengfulsquirrelI think creating an entirely separate interface would be the difficult part.22:56
Payneactually an pos system for amid to large company should support some type of disconnected mode22:57
vengfulsquirrelWhat kind of features would the POS support while disconnected?22:57
Paynejust the ability to function22:57
Paynewith the current data22:58
Payneuntil it reconnected22:58
Paynesyncml22:58
Paynewas designed for this22:58
Payneand I think some form of syncml integration in tryton22:59
vengfulsquirrelAll functions cannot be supported if the database integrity is to be maintained.22:59
Paynewell22:59
petrusPayne:  well you would face very funny roll-back problems from time to time22:59
Payneyes22:59
Paynesyncml supports conflict resolution22:59
Paynealthough sometimes23:00
Paynethere may be the need for manual intervention23:00
cedkpetrus: http://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue142023:12
cedkpetrus: this should improve the install of dev source23:13
petruscedk: hello, yes -- thanks.23:14
cedkPayne: you could have a look at the sqlite backend23:15
cedkPayne: we use it for neso23:15
cedkPayne: I think it could be a good way to create async POS23:16
Payneyes23:16
Paynethe issue is the sync code on the tryton backend23:16
petruscedk: by the way, I have just created a nice dependency graph for trytond modules and a dependency list whit topological order to help module installs and/or distro package maintenance23:16
PayneI think syncml using a python library23:17
Paynewould be ideal23:17
Paynethe issue is proper integration into tryton so it is not a hack23:18
cedkPayne: I don't know syncml but it seems complicate23:19
cedkPayne: what do you want to sync?23:19
petruscedk: they are based on the __tryton__.py files, but the the dependency lists may be longer since they are the transitive closures23:19
Paynewell, I am looking at having a generic synching interface for tryton23:20
cedkPayne: this will be very complicated23:20
PayneI agree23:20
cedkPayne: I worked on the sync module of OpenERP and it was very complicated and not working23:21
PayneI know23:21
Paynebut i think23:21
Payneit is worth investing in23:21
Paynefor POS, mobile sales forces23:21
Payneetc23:21
Payneespecially where I am in the caribbean23:22
Paynewhere sometimes internet is spotty23:22
PayneI am willing to invest in building a proper disconnected mode interface into tryton23:22
PayneIt's either I do that or use ofbiz23:23
Paynesince it has the functionality but it is java23:23
cedkPayne: no problem, you can create a blueprint23:23
Paynewhich I would prefer to avpid23:23
Paynewhere are the tryton blueprints kept?23:24
cedkPayne: on http://wiki.tryton.org/23:25
Payneok23:25
PayneI will do that23:25
PayneI know there is a synchro module for openerp23:25
cedkPayne: if you go with blueprint you will have review and comment from others23:25
Paynecedk: but the feedback does not seem positive. Your thoughts?23:26
cedkPayne: the feedback of what?23:28
Payneyou said you worked on the sync module23:28
Paynewhat was your experience23:28
Payne?23:28
cedkpetrus: how do you make the graph? Did you use the Graph object in modules?23:29
cedkPayne: very bad23:29
Paynecould you elaborate?23:29
cedkPayne: The goals was to be able to sync two DB for 2 companies23:29
Payneyes23:29
cedkPayne: by keeping some objects synchronized23:30
Payneserver to server openerp sync23:30
Payneok23:30
cedkPayne: and the result was that I needed to sync almost every thing23:30
cedkPayne: because the module is generic and so there is no business logic23:31
Payneright23:31
vengfulsquirrelPayne: Hi, I think you should just try to make a limited point of sale interface that only writes simplified versions of new sales and customers via a batch process.  Do you think you would need more features than that?23:31
cedkPayne: it was two years ago but I don't think they have made any progress on it23:32
PayneI thought about those suggestions23:32
cedkPayne: by the way, if you want to have write access to the wiki send me an email with your google account23:33
Paynethe issue is that it would be nice to have an elegant bidirectional sync capability so we repurpose it for different projects23:33
Paynemore work upfront23:34
cedkPayne: the main difficulty is the references like the many2one etc.23:34
Paynebut I think the community would have a more robust solution in the long term23:34
Payneyes23:34
Paynebut it is a legitimate use case for SMBs23:35
cedkPayne: there is two solutions, force to have the same ids on both side or having a translation table23:35
Payneyes23:35
cedkPayne: and the other problem is concurrency23:35
Paynethat is where a sync engine based on syncml23:36
Payneseems the best option23:36
cedkboth are really difficult issue in relational world23:36
cedkPayne: I don't see how a protocol could solve this issue23:37
Paynenot a protocol23:37
Paynebut there are implementations23:37
Paynethat handle conflict resolutions that are open source23:38
Paynegranted23:38
Payneit is still complex23:38
vengfulsquirrelI think a generic sync would not be possible its too complicated.23:38
Paynewhat I am thinking is that it may not be possible to sync the entire system23:39
petruscedk: I didn't use the Graph object, just wrote a short script which uses uses pydot to generate pdf and jpeg23:39
Paynebut an interface in tryton may allow specific data to be synchronized23:39
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cedkPayne: sync two records is not complicated, it is the UI and behavior that are complicated23:41
cedkby the way is there anybody that have an other idea of the usage of sync except for a POS?23:44
vengfulsquirrelI don't see why a POS needs to sync really, or it needs very limited sync, just for new customers(which potentially might not even be necessary if a generic customer is used).23:45
vengfulsquirrelNew sales can just be written, without needed any sync'ing.23:45
cedkvengfulsquirrel: I think POS doesn't create parties nor sale orders23:47
cedkvengfulsquirrel: and yes, I think for a POS it is not really a sync that is needed but almost23:47
cedkbecause POS needs to have the latest info about products23:48
cedkand it needs to push sales (but it is not Tryton sale orders)23:48
vengfulsquirrelRight, i meant the POS would create sales when it pushed them and it would pull products and pricing.23:50
cedkvengfulsquirrel: yes but for me it is not sale orders because you don't know the party and you don't need the all shipment workflow23:50
vengfulsquirrelYes, but you just autofill those because they happened implicitly.23:51
cedkit must be something else that create accounting moves and stock moves without the upper level models (invoice, shipment etc.)23:51
vengfulsquirrelI think the existing framework is sufficient, do you mean from some sort of Legal perspective or merely technical ?23:52
petruscedk: I have placed the module dependency files at http://petrusit.com/tryton/23:52
vengfulsquirrelI mean that's pretty much exactly what i'm doing now except I use a wizard in the tryton client.23:52
cedkvengfulsquirrel: I think about performance23:52
cedkvengfulsquirrel: you don't need any workflow when pushing from POS to the ERP23:52
vengfulsquirrelWell inventory still needs to be tracked to shipments must be created.23:53
cedkvengfulsquirrel: and workflow is slow23:53
vengfulsquirrelYeah tell me about it.23:53
cedkvengfulsquirrel: and I expect that POS will create a lot of lines per days23:53
vengfulsquirrelFrom a programmer's perspective though workflow is nice, it allows me to let the worflow check conditions and move things along is larger blocks.23:53
petruscedk: I plan to write up the install procedure for Ubuntu, as I do it with - it may be put into the wiki later23:53
cedkvengfulsquirrel: you don't need of shipment as the customer is gone with the product23:54
cedkvengfulsquirrel: all you need is stock moves and the best will have to group all moves of a product in one move23:54
vengfulsquirrelYes I run shipment to Done in order to allocate inventory to Customer location.23:54
cedkpetrus: ok, send me an email with your google account to have write access to the wiki23:55
vengfulsquirrelcedk: I see what you are saying but its more work that would just break on upgrades, whereas depending on existing tryton functionality is more stable.23:55
cedkvengfulsquirrel: yes it is a little more work but it is for speed, and it will be build on existing tryton functionality but at a lower level23:56
vengfulsquirrelDo you think it would be possible to use the tryton clients interface somehow to create a different program that runs POS ?  So that the widgets do not have to be recreated, etc.23:56
cedkvengfulsquirrel: I think it must be possible but it will require some improvement on widgets23:57
cedkvengfulsquirrel: and perhaps new widgets23:57

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