IRC logs of #tryton for Wednesday, 2010-08-25

chat.freenode.net #tryton log beginning Wed Aug 25 00:00:02 CEST 2010
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phellercedk: good morning08:04
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yangooncedk: ping10:23
yangooncedk: for me it is slightly different10:24
cedkyangoon: what?10:24
yangooncedk: tycho.b2ck.com follows rules, that forbid to relay with another address10:25
yangoonit should question freenet SPF rules, the relay10:25
yangoonnot gmx.de, the sender10:26
cedkyangoon: http://www.openspf.org/Why?s=mfrom;id=mathias.behrle@gmx.de;ip=2001:748:100:40::2:7;r=cedric.krier@b2ck.com10:27
yangooncedk: yes. thats what I am talking off10:27
yangoonHowever, the domain gmx.de has declared using SPF that it does not send mail through mout5.freenet.de (2001:748:100:40::2:7). That is why the message was rejected.10:27
yangoonbut gmx.de didn't send the message10:27
cedkyangoon: gmx.de said that email with from *@gmx.de should be send from ip4:213.165.64.0/23 ip4:74.208.5.64/26 a:mout5.freenet.de and reject any others10:28
cedkyangoon: so as you did not send it with gmx.de servers, your email is rejected10:29
yangooncedk: yes, I know how it works10:29
yangooncedk: but those rules are quite strict and IMHO useless10:30
yangoonwhy asking for the domain of the sender?10:30
yangoonyou have to ask for the envelope10:30
cedkyangoon: which envelope?10:33
yangooncedk: MAIL FROM: , not FROM:10:35
cedkyangoon: but you used relays10:37
yangooncedk: yes, why not?10:37
cedkyangoon: I checked the server log and the envelope is ...@gmx.de10:41
yangooncedk: hmm, strange, will have to check this later, thx for your time so far10:45
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phellerhello16:51
phellerHas there ever been any thought of installing a URL handler within Tryton?  So that URLs like tryton://party.party/1 would cause the client to display an appropriate form?16:53
phellerI started on this with the Mac app yesterday, and just wondered what others might have done.16:53
paepkepheller, it would be great to have something like this. especially for the mail-gateway sharoon is working on.16:58
paepkepheller, there were some discussions about it. but i can't remember where. irc, groups or somewhere...16:59
phellerpaepke: yes, I was thinking of it exactly for the mail gateway17:06
phellerpaepke: and also for "screen pops", for something like a call center17:06
phellerpaepke: caller identifies themself to the Automatic Voice Response, and when they get to an agent, the pbx will send a message to the agent's computer with a url like tryton://sale.order/1234517:07
paepkepheller, there are several use cases for it. i highly recommend such a url handling.17:10
paepkepheller, but don't forget the  database ;-)17:10
phelleryou prefer something like: tryton://[username[:password]]@database/model/id   ?17:11
phellerpaepke: the problem is that the client only supports a single database connection at a time....  so what if you are running a wizard or something, and in the middle of it, you get an email with such a url that goes to a different database?17:12
paepkeusername/password is useless and should be avoided. the client is already authenticated if it is running.17:12
phellerpaepke: agreed, that is why I wonder if database is needed17:13
phellerpaepke: or did you mean something else by "but don't forget the database" ?  :-)17:14
paepkepheller, yes, youre right with the client. but its an issue anyway if you would work for different companies on the same machine.17:14
phellerah ha, ok17:14
phellerI see.17:14
paepkeone option could be to have two instances running which are authenticated to different databases. but that tryton-url handler should know which one to trigger.17:15
paepkei'm not in that kind of message queue stuff. bit i remember on linux there is that dbus interface where different applications could listen. and if ther pops up a tryton-uri with a specific database it could decide for its own to parse that url.17:16
paepkeand if that uri does not go out of that queue there would be spawned a new tryton client with a login prompt to the right database.17:17
paepkebut i'm pretty sure there will be better approaches.17:17
paepkethis one came just to my mind.17:18
paepkei had such an issue (working for different companies) with a client which cannot handle different logins at once. its a real life example.17:19
paepkebut thanx god i had not to implement that uri, cause it was closed source software ;-)17:19
phellerHmmh, making it spawn the client might not be easy -- at least on the Mac.17:19
phellerBut, if there were two instances running, each with a different database, that can work.17:20
paepkepheller, yes, i know.i have one. you can run two instances. but its not apple's intention.17:20
phellerwell, I'll keep working on it.17:21
paepkewe should take care of it. its not that common but i had it already in my life. 80% of the customers don't get concerned by such a situation17:21
phellerprobably not a 1.8 feature.  maybe 2.017:22
paepkepheller, well. depends on the time. its not a framework internal, its an helper feature.17:23
phellerpaepke: right...  I'm just saying that I think it will take some more time for the gtk-osx framework to be ready on the Mac.17:24
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paepkepheller, for that email-module its an must have in my eyes. otherways you break the workflow17:24
phellerpaepke: so the email module -- do I understand correctly that it will implement an IMAP server?17:25
paepkepheller, you made a huge step forward by youre changeset on the mac. it is really really great.17:25
paepkepheller, yes.17:25
paepkeand an input queue for smtp with an helper script17:26
phellerpaepke: glad it's useful.  I set out only to fix the problem where quitting the application blocks exit.  I thought "why not keep going" :-)  I'm still working on the quit from the dock menu problem.17:26
phellerpaepke: so why implement an IMAP server?  why not just send the email and allow the client to receive it with an existing account?17:26
paepkecause you can assign more information to it inside tryton. or have tracking of the communication between you and the customer.17:28
paepkethere is already a messaging subsystem inside tryton.17:29
paepketo be more generic it will be based on email. for example exposing an imap interface to the outer world.17:29
paepkejust the next level of exposing an calender via caldav.17:30
paepkeor the attachments via webdav17:30
phellerpaepke: yep, I can understand wanting to have more interaction with the client17:30
phellerpaepke: I think there should be an option per user, though, to send requests to internal imap server, or via external email17:31
paepkeits good to have a central tracking of the information you send around.17:32
paepkefor example inside tryton on the party view: show me the last 10 mails the company sends to this customer.17:33
paepkeits a step forward for a CRM system.17:33
paepkebut anyway. The concepts are great. But i have some doubts if it can be deployed in real life to a customer.17:34
paepkefor example: i spoke today to a friend. they will drop their linux based groupware in favour of exchange, cause for that system there will be an email-archive solution which fits into outlook.17:35
phellerpaepke: oh absolutely.  I think that many internal users would use the IMAP system, though many would prefer not to add another email acount.17:35
paepkethe main idea is, if I understand it right to replace the email system of the customer with the tryton mail/groupware system.17:36
phellerpaepke: it is great to have this option, but in reality, there must be the ability to send requests to a standard email address.17:37
phellerpaepke: It will be a hard sell to a company to put an ERP system in charge of their email17:37
phellerbut I like having it as an option17:38
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paepkepheller, yes, you could archieve this by having a virtual email-address like user@tryton.company.tld17:40
paepkepheller, as additional service.17:40
phellerpaepke: I think most users would initially implement it so they can get:17:41
paepkesending mails can be rewritten to show the users real identity17:41
phellerfrom: tryton@tryton.company.tld17:41
phellersubject: purchase order approval17:41
phellerYou have a new purchase order for approval at tryton://server/database/purchase.order/1234517:42
phellerI think that is the most important use case.17:43
phellersecond most important is probably communication in the support module, when it's ready17:44
paepkepheller, think about a ticket system. someone is working on it. answering the email, which is generated from tryton, will lead to an update of the issue.17:44
paepkeyes, right :-)17:44
phellerand third most important (maybe tied for second) is to be able to have all sale opportunity email routed via tryton17:44
paepkepheller, i agree with you. but the routing of the mails is not a tryton issue.17:45
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paepkeits an mta issue.17:45
phelleroh, I don't mean routing in the MTA sense.  I mean for the email to at some point touch tryton, so that it can be associated with a party, or a sale, etc.17:45
pheller... and so years down the road, someone can see what was said to some party a long time ago....17:46
pheller... by an employee that is maybe no longer with the company.....  with normal email, this history would be long gone.17:46
phellerso I understand it from that perspective17:47
paepkepheller, and yes, for that you need an mail server inside tryton.17:47
paepkepheller, totally agree.17:47
phellerpaepke: It will be interesting to do some load testing on the tryton mail server, when it is implemented17:51
paepkepheller, of course.17:52
paepkepostgres will do the trick its pretty scalable.17:55
paepkepheller, i'm currently playing around with an nosql backend for the attachment module. it looks very promising.17:55
paepkeand scaleable.17:56
phellerneat17:56
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pepeucedk, you here?21:27
pepeui asked yesterday if there is a project for the POS module?21:28
cedkpepeu: yes, but I'm leaving for launch :-(21:28
pepeuok, how I can participate in this project21:30
pepeuPOS I am doing depends POS module, but is an independent client21:32
pepeuto improve the interface, and as you told me use pygtk, far right21:33
pepeucedk, see you tomorrow21:39
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phellercedk: question about key accelerators in the client23:40
phellercedk: there is a collision between "N" for "New Form", and for "No" (in save dialog).  Should I do something like make New Form Ctrl-Shift-N?  (rather than just Ctrl-N)?23:42
cedkpheller: it is alt in dialog and ctrl for shortcut23:43
phellercedk: hmmh, ok, this must be a gtk-osx thing.  For me, it is Ctrl in dialog.23:44
phellercedk: I'll see if I can fix that too.23:44
cedkpheller: shortcut are editable23:45
phelleryou mean via the accel.map ?23:45
cedkpheller: by typing it in the menu23:46
phellerah23:47
yangoonpheller: after activating Menubar/Change Accelerators23:47
phelleryangoon: ah, ok.  I'm just changing the default from alt to cmd for Mac.23:48
phelleryangoon: but for some reason, mac doesn't default to alt accelerators for dialogs.23:48
yangoonpheller: should be a gtk-osx issue, as you say23:49
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