IRC logs of #tryton for Monday, 2012-11-19 #tryton log beginning Mon Nov 19 00:00:01 CET 2012
ivangarciahello, is there any script to upgrade modules to tryton.cfg 2.6 format?04:56
_droidhello people, i wanted to ask if there are any java api for tryton07:47
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sisalphello is communication mode per contact14:37
cedksisalp: what do you mean?14:40
sisalpper address or tier ?14:41
cedksisalp: why is an address need to have a communication mode?14:44
sisalp address vs contact ?14:44
cedksisalp: what is a contact?14:44
bechamelsisalp: the tier is the contact14:44
sisalpmr or me someone14:45
sisalpwho works for tierA14:45
cedksisalp: it is a party14:46
sisalpcompany tierA has 10 employees and I need to register them in my database14:46
rmuhehe... that discussion again ;)14:46
sisalpa party is something I make business with14:47
cedksisalp: no a party is a party14:49
cedksisalp: what is the goal to of having employees in the DB?14:50
rmuI don't know of sisalp's use-case, i do have e.g. a retailer, and various contacts regarding different categories of products, 2 contacts concerning accounts, and 2-3 addresses where to deliver goods14:54
rmuso with the tryton "stock" party modules, i would have to create a party for each contact, one party for the retailer, and find some mechanism to connect the contacts to the retailer14:56
cedkrmu: addresses are not a problem14:56
rmuno, addresses are no problem14:56
cedkrmu: 2 contacts concerning accounts: I don't understand14:56
sisalpcedk: so how do manage the case when you want to send a newsletter to sales reps of your customers ?14:56
cedksisalp: add a check on contact mechanims to flag it14:57
cedksisalp: or make a module party_relationship to have a generic way to link parties14:58
rmucedk: i have one contact where i would send my customer-invoices, and one other contact i would have to deal with regarding supplier invoices14:58
rmu(this particular retailer is supplier and customer at the same time)14:58
cedkrmu: what do you mean by "send"?14:58
rmucekd: e-mail or fax14:59
sisalpcedk: what is contact mechanims ?14:59
cedkrmu: create a selection checkbox like on address15:00
rmucedk: i pimped the address to include "contact-mechanism"15:00
rmufor me, a telephone-number and/or fax is tied to physical location15:01
bechamelsisalp: contact mechanims are shown in the bottom left of the party view (first tab)15:04
cedkrmu: you don't live in 21th century :-)15:07
sisalpIn fact I don't understand how it is supposed to work15:10
sisalpHow can I add Mr or Me dependind of the person I write to ?15:11
cedksisalp: how do you write to?15:11
cedksisalp: you have to store the data depending on how you will use it15:12
sisalpby mail for example15:12
cedksisalp: why do you need it in the system?15:12
sisalpto build an erp15:12
sisalpand forget excell15:13
sisalpI suppose this has been deeply thought, but I cannot get it15:13
cedksisalp: what you ask doesn't exist in Tryton, so there is no workflow to do it15:13
sisalpwhat a workflow would do in my case ?15:14
sisalpI'm just thinking about organising data in my database15:14
cedksisalp: you can design a database only if you know how you will use the data15:15
sisalpcedk: I don't see how it relates to the question. I need to store data first15:16
sisalpThere many other examples15:16
bechamelsisalp: just create one party per employee15:16
bechamelsisalp: you will only miss the relation between employees and their company15:17
sisalpbechamel: I think this is the only way, but it looks odd15:17
sisalpemployee is not the right term15:18
sisalpit is a person in my case15:18
bechamelsisalp: the term "party" encompass both companies and peoples15:18
sisalpwho don't need to be employed buy the customer/supplier15:19
sisalpemployee I meant15:19
bechamelsisalp: the idea is to have an extra module that defined relations, like "si employee of", "is customer of", etc15:19
bechamelbut this module is not yet written15:20
sisalpbechamel: but what if I add fields on the address to store commnication modes for the address, and type (mr, me) ?15:26
sisalpI guess this is not done on purpose15:26
bechamelsisalp: the idea is that the communication mode is linked to the poeple/company, not to the adress15:28
bechamelsisalp: think about skype or email15:28
bechamelsisalp: the title (mr, ms) is also linked to the party, not the address15:29
sisalp (mr, ms) is also linked to the party where is it ?15:30
cedkthe design comes from
sisalpif comm mode is not in the adresse, why address is not a comm mode ?15:31
sisalpcedk: I thought there are good reasons for this, my point is to convince someone else that is is good for him15:33
bechamelsisalp: you are right, it's a communication mode, but the information is more complex15:34
bechamelsisalp: if we had an url to describe an address it would be a communication contact15:36
cedksisalp: it is not only communication mode, we need it for legal aspect, like on invoice15:36
sisalpcedk: I not able to understand you point.15:39
rmuanother problem you get is "duplicated" information like accounts, tax rules, price lists, warehouse, that in reality is tied to the organization, and should not be defined on the individual contacts15:40
sisalpas a bottom line can wee say that Tryton is not ready (yet) to be the address book of the company ?15:40
cedkrmu: why?15:41
cedksisalp: why? Because you can not link parties together, I don't have such functionnality in my address book15:41
sisalprmu: there are mandatory fields in parties which don't make sens in case of a contact15:41
sisalpcedk: yes unfortunatly15:42
cedksisalp: moreover such information are not defined in the CardDAV specification15:43
cedksisalp: what if your contact become a customer?15:43
rmucedk: if you have my sales-rep as a party and the customer (the legal entity) as a party, i would have to define debit/credit account on both, wouldn't I?15:43
rmus/customer/supplier/ in this example15:44
cedkrmu: I don't understand15:44
sisalprmu: yes I think, they are mandatory fields15:45
bechamelrmu: you sell/buy to/from a customer/supplier not to the sale-rep15:45
rmubechamel: that depends15:45
sisalpbut if the sale rep is a party, you must define accounts iiuc15:45
bechamelsisalp: mandatory but pre-filled with default values, so you shouldn't care15:46
sisalppre-filled with default values, so you shouldn't care : I don't agree.15:46
bechamelrmu: if you sell directly to the sale-rep, than it makes sense to define debit/credit &co wrt to him15:46
rmupre-filled default-values are usually wrong, because (in my case at least), each supplier/customer has its own account/set of accounts15:47
sisalpcedk: sisalp: what if your contact become a customer? I think we understand in this case there are two parties15:47
cedksisalp: yes but you will have duplicate information if you stored the contact first in a separate form15:48
bechamelrmu: this is why they are defined per party and not globally15:48
rmubechamel: i know, but nevertheless, if the default values don't really help ;)15:48
cedkrmu: there are any required field on party except name (which I think should not be)15:50
bechamelrmu: it depends of your business15:50
sisalpcedk: required : what about accounts ?15:51
sisalpmy prospect has about 20 customers, with an average of 20 persons per customer.15:52
cedksisalp: accounts is not really required, it is only if you are in a company15:52
cedksisalp: so you could create them without defining accounts if you unset your company15:53
cedksisalp: ok but what does he need?15:53
katrcedk: Hi! Can you shortly comment on my response to ?15:53
sisalpcedk: first move excell content in Tryton and use it to find info about all contacts15:54
katrAnd of course I appreciate input from anyone else as well.15:54
sisalpwhen someone is not in, who is his manager and who is his assistant15:55
cedksisalp: so you need a module like party_relationship15:55
rmucedk: +115:56
cedksisalp: indeed, it is what many people call CRM15:56
rmucedk: it should be easy to organize and find all contacts associated with a specific organization. that is currently missing15:58
sisalpcedk: party_relationship, may be this could solve, but a simple list of contacts with a field for comments is what he has today15:58
sisalpcedk: as comments he can have : assistant to mr A and Ms B and out on wednesdays16:00
sisalpcedk and this fits the need for very big business sometimes ;-)16:01
sisalpcedk: I think party_relationship will not be simple enough for this need16:04
rmuthis party_relationship, would this be a One2Many, or should it rather be a Tree?16:05
sisalpcedk: about CRM: yes it makes sens to me16:20
sisalpcedk: more than party_relationship16:20
cedksisalp: CRM is a garbage name16:32
cedkrmu: it will be a tree made by m2m16:33
sisalpcedk: to give some feedback : it will be a problem17:54
sisalpcedk: if I could understand how people use Tryton on this aspect, I would be more effective17:55
sisalpcedk: the bad news is that this is required by all small companies I've been speaking to17:56
rmuit seems everybody is cooking their own solution now... e.g.
sisalprmu : the first one adds the fields I need to the address18:06
sisalprmu: the second one adds mr and ms to the party.18:06
sisalprmu: exactly what was said before18:07
sisalprmu: I'm not convinced this is the way to go, even if it is the simplest one18:08
sisalprmu: I feel frustrated because I don't understand how Tryton is supposed to work in a real case18:08
sisalprmu: I must admit I only use tryton for official documents, if I had to implement my business rules, I need to enter three people per customer in the general case18:10
sisalprmu: instaed of this my business is run with another home-made tool18:11
cedksisalp: we could help you if you give some cases18:23
cedksisalp: otherwise the only answer if what you want is just put data about relationship, it is the future party_relationship18:24
sisalpcedk: here is my own example : I sell hosting. For each customer I get three contacts : contractual (order, invoice, cancelation, renew), technical expert and functionnal expert18:33
sisalpcedk: the party is often a school18:34
cedksisalp: so you just need to be able to create a relashionship between the school and 3 others parties which each one having a specific role18:35
sisalpcedk: I don't see what party_relationship would do for me in this case18:35
sisalpcedk: It will create 4 parties instead of one, then I will have to customize to know who is who18:37
cedksisalp: you will create 3 parties and link them to the school18:37
sisalpcedk: zz module is going the opposite18:39
cedksisalp: yes, but they just reproduce the OE behavior18:42
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