| chat.freenode.net #tryton log beginning Mon Nov 19 00:00:01 CET 2012 | ||
| 2012-11-19 04:56 <ivangarcia> hello, is there any script to upgrade modules __tryton_.py to tryton.cfg 2.6 format? | ||
| 2012-11-19 07:47 <_droid> hello people, i wanted to ask if there are any java api for tryton | ||
| 2012-11-19 08:36 -!- sharoonthomas(~sharoonth@198.61.199.179) has left #tryton | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:37 <sisalp> hello is communication mode per contact | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:37 <sisalp> ? | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:40 <cedk> sisalp: what do you mean? | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:41 <sisalp> per address or tier ? | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:44 <cedk> sisalp: why is an address need to have a communication mode? | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:44 <sisalp> address vs contact ? | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:44 <cedk> sisalp: what is a contact? | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:44 <bechamel> sisalp: the tier is the contact | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:45 <sisalp> mr or me someone | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:45 <sisalp> who works for tierA | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:46 <cedk> sisalp: it is a party | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:46 <sisalp> company tierA has 10 employees and I need to register them in my database | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:46 <rmu> hehe... that discussion again ;) | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:47 <sisalp> a party is something I make business with | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:49 <cedk> sisalp: no a party is a party | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:50 <cedk> sisalp: what is the goal to of having employees in the DB? | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:54 <rmu> I don't know of sisalp's use-case, i do have e.g. a retailer, and various contacts regarding different categories of products, 2 contacts concerning accounts, and 2-3 addresses where to deliver goods | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:56 <rmu> so with the tryton "stock" party modules, i would have to create a party for each contact, one party for the retailer, and find some mechanism to connect the contacts to the retailer | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:56 <cedk> rmu: addresses are not a problem | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:56 <rmu> no, addresses are no problem | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:56 <cedk> rmu: 2 contacts concerning accounts: I don't understand | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:56 <sisalp> cedk: so how do manage the case when you want to send a newsletter to sales reps of your customers ? | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:57 <cedk> sisalp: add a check on contact mechanims to flag it | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:58 <cedk> sisalp: or make a module party_relationship to have a generic way to link parties | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:58 <rmu> cedk: i have one contact where i would send my customer-invoices, and one other contact i would have to deal with regarding supplier invoices | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:58 <rmu> (this particular retailer is supplier and customer at the same time) | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:58 <cedk> rmu: what do you mean by "send"? | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:59 <rmu> cekd: e-mail or fax | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:59 <rmu> s/cekd/cedk/ | ||
| 2012-11-19 14:59 <sisalp> cedk: what is contact mechanims ? | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:00 <cedk> rmu: create a selection checkbox like on address | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:00 <rmu> cedk: i pimped the address to include "contact-mechanism" | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:01 <rmu> for me, a telephone-number and/or fax is tied to physical location | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:02 <rmu> afk | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:04 <bechamel> sisalp: contact mechanims are shown in the bottom left of the party view (first tab) | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:07 <cedk> rmu: you don't live in 21th century :-) | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:10 <sisalp> In fact I don't understand how it is supposed to work | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:11 <sisalp> How can I add Mr or Me dependind of the person I write to ? | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:11 <cedk> sisalp: how do you write to? | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:12 <cedk> sisalp: you have to store the data depending on how you will use it | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:12 <sisalp> by mail for example | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:12 <cedk> sisalp: why do you need it in the system? | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:12 <sisalp> to build an erp | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:13 <sisalp> and forget excell | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:13 <sisalp> I suppose this has been deeply thought, but I cannot get it | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:13 <cedk> sisalp: what you ask doesn't exist in Tryton, so there is no workflow to do it | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:14 <sisalp> what a workflow would do in my case ? | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:14 <sisalp> I'm just thinking about organising data in my database | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:15 <cedk> sisalp: you can design a database only if you know how you will use the data | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:16 <sisalp> cedk: I don't see how it relates to the question. I need to store data first | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:16 <sisalp> There many other examples | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:16 <bechamel> sisalp: just create one party per employee | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:17 <bechamel> sisalp: you will only miss the relation between employees and their company | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:17 <sisalp> bechamel: I think this is the only way, but it looks odd | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:18 <sisalp> employee is not the right term | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:18 <sisalp> it is a person in my case | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:18 <bechamel> sisalp: the term "party" encompass both companies and peoples | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:19 <sisalp> who don't need to be employed buy the customer/supplier | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:19 <sisalp> employee I meant | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:19 <bechamel> sisalp: the idea is to have an extra module that defined relations, like "si employee of", "is customer of", etc | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:20 <bechamel> but this module is not yet written | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:26 <sisalp> bechamel: but what if I add fields on the address to store commnication modes for the address, and type (mr, me) ? | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:26 <sisalp> I guess this is not done on purpose | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:28 <bechamel> sisalp: the idea is that the communication mode is linked to the poeple/company, not to the adress | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:28 <bechamel> sisalp: think about skype or email | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:29 <bechamel> sisalp: the title (mr, ms) is also linked to the party, not the address | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:30 <sisalp> (mr, ms) is also linked to the party where is it ? | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:31 <cedk> the design comes from http://www.amazon.com/Data-Model-Resource-Book-Vol/dp/0471380237?tag=duckduckgo-d-20 | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:31 <sisalp> if comm mode is not in the adresse, why address is not a comm mode ? | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:33 <sisalp> cedk: I thought there are good reasons for this, my point is to convince someone else that is is good for him | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:34 <bechamel> sisalp: you are right, it's a communication mode, but the information is more complex | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:36 <bechamel> sisalp: if we had an url to describe an address it would be a communication contact | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:36 <cedk> sisalp: it is not only communication mode, we need it for legal aspect, like on invoice | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:39 <sisalp> cedk: I not able to understand you point. | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:40 <rmu> another problem you get is "duplicated" information like accounts, tax rules, price lists, warehouse, that in reality is tied to the organization, and should not be defined on the individual contacts | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:40 <sisalp> as a bottom line can wee say that Tryton is not ready (yet) to be the address book of the company ? | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:41 <cedk> rmu: why? | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:41 <cedk> sisalp: why? Because you can not link parties together, I don't have such functionnality in my address book | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:41 <sisalp> rmu: there are mandatory fields in parties which don't make sens in case of a contact | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:42 <sisalp> cedk: yes unfortunatly | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:43 <cedk> sisalp: moreover such information are not defined in the CardDAV specification | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:43 <cedk> sisalp: what if your contact become a customer? | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:43 <rmu> cedk: if you have my sales-rep as a party and the customer (the legal entity) as a party, i would have to define debit/credit account on both, wouldn't I? | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:44 <rmu> s/customer/supplier/ in this example | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:44 <cedk> rmu: I don't understand | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:45 <sisalp> rmu: yes I think, they are mandatory fields | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:45 <bechamel> rmu: you sell/buy to/from a customer/supplier not to the sale-rep | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:45 <rmu> bechamel: that depends | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:45 <sisalp> but if the sale rep is a party, you must define accounts iiuc | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:46 <bechamel> sisalp: mandatory but pre-filled with default values, so you shouldn't care | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:46 <sisalp> pre-filled with default values, so you shouldn't care : I don't agree. | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:46 <bechamel> rmu: if you sell directly to the sale-rep, than it makes sense to define debit/credit &co wrt to him | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:47 <rmu> pre-filled default-values are usually wrong, because (in my case at least), each supplier/customer has its own account/set of accounts | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:47 <sisalp> cedk: sisalp: what if your contact become a customer? I think we understand in this case there are two parties | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:48 <cedk> sisalp: yes but you will have duplicate information if you stored the contact first in a separate form | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:48 <bechamel> rmu: this is why they are defined per party and not globally | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:48 <rmu> bechamel: i know, but nevertheless, if the default values don't really help ;) | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:48 <rmu> s/if// | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:50 <cedk> rmu: there are any required field on party except name (which I think should not be) | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:50 <bechamel> rmu: it depends of your business | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:51 <sisalp> cedk: required : what about accounts ? | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:52 <sisalp> my prospect has about 20 customers, with an average of 20 persons per customer. | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:52 <cedk> sisalp: accounts is not really required, it is only if you are in a company | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:53 <cedk> sisalp: so you could create them without defining accounts if you unset your company | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:53 <cedk> sisalp: ok but what does he need? | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:53 <katr> cedk: Hi! Can you shortly comment on my response to http://code.google.com/p/tryton/wiki/DunningModule ? | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:54 <sisalp> cedk: first move excell content in Tryton and use it to find info about all contacts | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:54 <katr> And of course I appreciate input from anyone else as well. | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:55 <sisalp> when someone is not in, who is his manager and who is his assistant | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:55 <cedk> sisalp: so you need a module like party_relationship | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:56 <rmu> cedk: +1 | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:56 <cedk> sisalp: indeed, it is what many people call CRM | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:58 <rmu> cedk: it should be easy to organize and find all contacts associated with a specific organization. that is currently missing | ||
| 2012-11-19 15:58 <sisalp> cedk: party_relationship, may be this could solve, but a simple list of contacts with a field for comments is what he has today | ||
| 2012-11-19 16:00 <sisalp> cedk: as comments he can have : assistant to mr A and Ms B and out on wednesdays | ||
| 2012-11-19 16:01 <sisalp> cedk and this fits the need for very big business sometimes ;-) | ||
| 2012-11-19 16:04 <sisalp> cedk: I think party_relationship will not be simple enough for this need | ||
| 2012-11-19 16:05 <rmu> this party_relationship, would this be a One2Many, or should it rather be a Tree? | ||
| 2012-11-19 16:20 <sisalp> cedk: about CRM: yes it makes sens to me | ||
| 2012-11-19 16:20 <sisalp> cedk: more than party_relationship | ||
| 2012-11-19 16:32 <cedk> sisalp: CRM is a garbage name | ||
| 2012-11-19 16:33 <cedk> rmu: it will be a tree made by m2m | ||
| 2012-11-19 17:54 <sisalp> cedk: to give some feedback : it will be a problem | ||
| 2012-11-19 17:55 <sisalp> cedk: if I could understand how people use Tryton on this aspect, I would be more effective | ||
| 2012-11-19 17:56 <sisalp> cedk: the bad news is that this is required by all small companies I've been speaking to | ||
| 2012-11-19 18:00 <rmu> it seems everybody is cooking their own solution now... e.g. https://bitbucket.org/zikzakmedia/trytond-party_communication | ||
| 2012-11-19 18:00 <rmu> https://bitbucket.org/zikzakmedia/trytond-party_type | ||
| 2012-11-19 18:06 <sisalp> rmu : the first one adds the fields I need to the address | ||
| 2012-11-19 18:06 <sisalp> rmu: the second one adds mr and ms to the party. | ||
| 2012-11-19 18:07 <sisalp> rmu: exactly what was said before | ||
| 2012-11-19 18:08 <sisalp> rmu: I'm not convinced this is the way to go, even if it is the simplest one | ||
| 2012-11-19 18:08 <sisalp> rmu: I feel frustrated because I don't understand how Tryton is supposed to work in a real case | ||
| 2012-11-19 18:10 <sisalp> rmu: I must admit I only use tryton for official documents, if I had to implement my business rules, I need to enter three people per customer in the general case | ||
| 2012-11-19 18:11 <sisalp> rmu: instaed of this my business is run with another home-made tool | ||
| 2012-11-19 18:23 <cedk> sisalp: we could help you if you give some cases | ||
| 2012-11-19 18:24 <cedk> sisalp: otherwise the only answer if what you want is just put data about relationship, it is the future party_relationship | ||
| 2012-11-19 18:33 <sisalp> cedk: here is my own example : I sell hosting. For each customer I get three contacts : contractual (order, invoice, cancelation, renew), technical expert and functionnal expert | ||
| 2012-11-19 18:34 <sisalp> cedk: the party is often a school | ||
| 2012-11-19 18:35 <cedk> sisalp: so you just need to be able to create a relashionship between the school and 3 others parties which each one having a specific role | ||
| 2012-11-19 18:35 <sisalp> cedk: I don't see what party_relationship would do for me in this case | ||
| 2012-11-19 18:37 <sisalp> cedk: It will create 4 parties instead of one, then I will have to customize to know who is who | ||
| 2012-11-19 18:37 <cedk> sisalp: you will create 3 parties and link them to the school | ||
| 2012-11-19 18:39 <sisalp> cedk: zz module is going the opposite | ||
| 2012-11-19 18:42 <cedk> sisalp: yes, but they just reproduce the OE behavior | ||
| 2012-11-19 20:13 -!- pokoli(~pokoli@218.Red-79-146-135.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has left #tryton |
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