IRC logs of #tryton for Friday, 2015-10-09 #tryton log beginning Fri Oct 9 00:00:01 CEST 2015
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aroncerois there any way to make a field required (or not) with an onchange function?09:44
aronceroI made it checking "manually" the conditions and raising an excpetion...09:45
aroncerobut maybe there is an framework way "to put red the field"09:45
Timitosaroncero: why not using the states attribute of the field? if i understand your requirement right i think it should do the trick09:53
pokoliaroncero: use a field, which is calculated by the on_change function and use this field in the required states attribute (as Timitos suggested)09:54
aroncerook, that is the solution09:55
aronceroTotal newbie09:55
pokoliaroncero: also if it is a comute flag that depends on other fields you can use a Boolean Function field which is computed by on_change_with09:56
pokoliaroncero: so the condition is evaluated whenever any of the depending fields is modified09:56
aronceropokoli: Depends on other boolean field, so states must be sufficient10:02
cedkaroncero: Tryton is designed to avoid border effect, so most of the thing are declaritive instead of procedural10:04
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aroncerocedk: I am trying to read about Tryton, but there are some functions that I don't find doc10:17
aroncerocedk: So i am trying to understand with other modules10:18
aroncerocedk: But I'm old :P10:19
pokoliaroncero: so do not feel embarrassed for asking questions here :P10:32
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pokolihi, i have some strange behaviour with proteus and this context
pokoliit works on tryton client, but on proteus this values are empty on the context, so defaults values are not loaded11:50
pokolianyone can give me some tip?11:51
cedkpokoli: but the proteus new function set the context11:59
pokolicedk: this line raises a KeyError: 2 (which is sillently catched)12:04
pokoliACTION is investigating12:04
cedkpokoli: I don't see any try/except12:09
pokolicedk: this is the try/except which catches the exception
cedkpokoli: so the context is set but with None value?12:13
pokolicedk: yes, the context is set with None value12:13
pokolicedk: this is the traceback
pokolicedk: it seems it's a bug on the function field (which is used on the context)12:13
cedkpokoli: yeps12:16
pokolicedk: yes, there was a bug on the function field which return and empty dict without ids, so that's why because it broke12:17
pokolicedk: thanks!12:17
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csotelohi! I am starting on tryton, and development on it, my question is, for module developmen and production stage, What do you recomends? I means, for development, virtualenv, it is clear, but for production? do you think is a good idea using virtualenv? I have been using virtual env for twisted and django on production, but reading on google for looking experiences on virtualenv for tryton, I juts found it for development, no for production, what do you thn14:01
csoteloik? thanks a lot14:01
pokolicsotelo: i can not see any drawback fro running virtualenvs in production14:02
pokolicsotelo: but if you only have one environment in the production machine, you can avoid the virtualenv and install the packages directly in the system14:03
csotelopokoli, thanks a lot, on my side, I prefer to use virtualenv instead server side install for keep a clean enviroment14:04
csoteloin this case, I am thinking on prepare avirtual machine with the tryton, using pip ( I always prefer to use pip instead a apt-get , although I am a debian fan ) but most of time, I use virtualenv for kep clean enviroments like my own development, based on your experience, ehat do you think?14:06
csotelonow, I am start thinking on performance, ...14:07
cedkcsotelo: virtualenv has the drawback to not be part of the system update (security)14:07
cedkcsotelo: also virutalenv doesn't necessary optimize the byte code while package of distribution should do14:08
cedkcsotelo: also in production you should run tryton with python -O14:08
csotelohmmmm... then, best choice will be install it as part of the system ( using pip or os distribution packages? )14:10
cedkcsotelo: always prefer distribution packages14:11
cedkcsotelo: otherwise it is the same as a virtualenv14:11
csotelocedk, the last two questions, and probably dumb questions? 1. using os distribution, will have an impact on custom modules? is this a good path to start on development
csoteloabout the first one question. please give me a minutes for explain it14:13
csoteloabout the first one question, I mean, I will take the account module provided, and make some customizations, I guess the best chocice is ranamed for no having issues on updated, right? or what will be the best choice for avoid distrinution updating impact?14:15
pokolicsotelo: you can place all your customizations in a custom module, and make a package for it14:19
cedkcsotelo: no Tryton comes with a module mechanism which allow to change the behaviour of other modules14:20
csotelothanks, and sorry for this really dumb question, I was looking for been sure on what I was thinking, Thanks a lot14:20
cedkcsotelo: also you must not put initial data in modules but just import them14:20
csoteloHmmm.. I have seen one think thank I have not liked so much, I have tryed to install tryton server on a debian virtual machine ( apt-get install tryton-server ) and it will install libreoffice and some x11 libs, that sounds ok?14:26
csoteloI guess, while it will be a server, what is the reason on need libreoffice, gstreamer or x11 libs? [OT Question but asked before look for it on debian chanel]14:27
cedkcsotelo: it is not a strict dependency (or should not) if configured it can be used to convert standard odt report into other formats14:28
cedkyangoon: is the debian tryton-server depends on libreoffice?14:29
csotelocedk, I guess server installation must no have strict dependence on it too, but a simple apt-get install tryton-server install libreoffice and x11 libs, and I dont needit on a console server machine14:31
cedkcsotelo: don't know the debian package system but it should not be a strict dependency14:32
csoteloI think the same14:32
Pilouit's not a strong dependency ('suggests' dependency field is used)14:32
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Pilouwith apt-get you could use the "--install-suggests=no" parameter14:37
Timitoscedk: its the unconv that depends on libreoffice14:39
csoteloPilou, I have done and apt tryies to install that14:40
Pilouunoconv is listed in 'Recommends' dependency field, --install-recommends=no can be used too14:40
Piloucsotelo: you should try "apt-get install --install-recommends=no --install-suggests=no tryton-server"14:41
csoteloPilou, the last one line runs better for me14:42
csoteloand yes, you are right14:42
cedkTimitos: yes but unoconv is not a strict dependency of trytond14:42
Timitoscedk: like Pilou said. unconv is just a recommends:
csotelothanks a lot to all of you14:44
csoteloPilou, your last line was What I was looking for ( I hope it  is well typewrited )14:46
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yangooncsotelo: the current default behavior for Debian is to install recommends, but no suggests. The parameters for apt-get reflect this with  'apt-get install --no-install-recommends' resp. 'apt get install --install-suggests'15:08
csoteloyangoon, thanks! also Pilou give me a hand, I ma glad with your answer!15:09
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cedkyangoon: should not unoconv be suggested instead?15:29
yangooncedk: it is a trade-off. policy says: The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations.15:33
cedkyangoon: I think installing libreoffice by default is bad15:35
Piloutryton-server doesn't recommend libreoffice15:36
yangooncedk:  libreoffice is also a recommend of unoconv15:37
yangoona Devian package installed with default settings is expected to run out of the box as mauch as possible15:37
cedkyangoon: so when you install tryton-server it install all the modules and all the clients?15:39
yangoonso if someone wants fine-grained control over dependency installation, he is well with going with --no-recommends15:39
cedkPilou: but it recommends unoconv which depend on libreoffice15:39
yangooncedk: of course not: therefore exists tryton-modules-all15:39
cedkyangoon: so it doesn't run out of the box as much as possible15:39
yangooncedk: no, as I said: some libreoffice packages is only a recommend of unoconv15:40
Timitoscedk: so how do you convert your reports into pdf. dont you use unoconv? do you have another report engine for that? we do not have any tryton instance that does not need the usage of pdfs for reports15:41
cedkyangoon: "some libreoffice" it is a big part15:41
cedkTimitos: I don't need trytond to convert to pdf, I prefer an more  open format like odt15:41
cedkif we wanted PDF to be the standard output format, we would have write another engine15:42
Timitosso you can be happy that you do not need to use pdf. unfortunately it does not reflect the needs of our customers15:42
cedkTimitos: we don't care about customer, here we are talking about what should be installed by default when you install tryton-server on debian15:43
yangooncedk: I think the current dependency configuration of the tryton-server package is the best suitable for most situations.15:44
yangoonwho wants better control, goes with --no-recommends15:44
Timitoscedk: like yangoon said. a debian package installed with default settings is expected to run out of the box as much as possible and i think the usage of pdf for reports is something that many people will expect15:44
cedkguys I think you are completly wrong to suggest that on server you should by default install X11 stuffs15:45
cedkACTION maybe I should remove unoconv15:45
Timitosmay be an option15:46
Piloui guess the debian maintainers should choose what to do with the debian packages ;)15:47
cedkI see that on wheezy unoconv was just a recommend15:50
yangoonit still is15:51
cedk* Moving unoconv from Suggests to Recommends.15:52
cedkfor me, the experience of today shows that it is a wrong idea because it gives the wrong feeling to people that trytond is bloated with a lot of X11 stuffs15:53
Pilouwhen PDF reports are needed, trytond is bloated with a lot of X11 stuffs15:56
TimitosPilou: i agree. in the long run we will need a replacement for the unoconv solution15:58
yangoonAs long as pdf conversion is a substantial setting (under reports configuration) and won't work without unoconv, it is correct under recommends. Non-working options give the users the feeling of buggy software.15:58
Timitosyangoon: +115:59
yangoonand as I said: the experienced admin will know anyway what to do15:59
cedkPilou: PDF should not be needed16:01
cedkeveryone until now who said it needs PDF was for a wrong reason16:01
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Timitosit depends on the point of view16:02
cedkyangoon: you are just hurting the experience of users16:02
Timitosbut for the point of view of this channel you may be right16:02
cedkyangoon: so mysql should be in recommend16:03
yangooncedk: what about downward compatibility of saved docs? I remember the case where we had to delete all reports in a database to be able to regenrate them, because they couldn't be opened wit a current openoffice/libreoffice version. I didn't encounter this problem with pdf so far.16:03
yangooncedk: postgresql in recommends is just a kudo at the projects description and the preferred database. Strictly speaking it is a suggest, correct.16:04
cedkyangoon: OK I see your interpretation of recommends or suggests is purly depending on your personal opition16:06
cedkyangoon: because postgresql is an option of the configuration just like mysql or any other backend16:06
yangooncedk: not purely, but a lot16:06
cedkyangoon: please give me a pointer to the downward compatibility issue16:08
cedkyangoon: also bugs happen in software, and PDF reader is not exempted16:08
yangooncedk: it happened, quite some years ago. I have no pointer available and also not the time to search for it.16:10
cedkyangoon: more over, libreoffice is not the only software that can open opendocument, there are Office, AbiWord, Google Docs etc.16:10
cedkyangoon: too bad, it just makes me feel that it is much more base on your personal opinion and usage16:11
yangooncedk: you are completely right16:11
yangoonabout odf16:11
yangoonbut there are still windows users on this world16:12
cedkyangoon: exactly Office opens opendocument not PDF16:13
yangooncedk: sorry, if a customer has the requirement for pdf, he gets pdf16:15
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yangoonno need to discuss that16:15
cedkyangoon: I don't care about your customer and if you can not talk with him16:15
cedkyangoon: I care about the experience people have when installing tryton-server on Debian16:16
cedkyangoon: and I'm very sad that the behaviour is based on your own personal choice without any rational16:16
yangooncedk: it is based on my personal choice as yours in on yours, no difference there16:17
yangoonI will reflect your question to move postgresql to suggests, no problem for me.16:18
cedkyangoon: I have made no choice16:19
cedkyangoon: it is not what I said16:19
cedkyangoon: I take your words about why unoconv is in recommends and so mysql should be in recommends16:19
cedkyangoon: so now if you move postgresql to suggests, unoconv should also16:20
yangooncedk: again and enough for this moment: The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations.16:20
cedkbut all I see here is inconsitant behavour16:20
cedkyangoon: yes exactly unoconv is unusual16:21
yangoonunoconv missing will cause missing functionality, missing postgresql can still use sqlite16:22
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cedkyangoon: OK so what is the proper way to solve this conflict16:24
yangooncedk: as always: find the compromise.16:25
Timitoscedk: how did you manage to send me your last quotation as an pdf if you do not use unoconv in tryton? :-D16:25
cedkTimitos: using my computer16:26
cedkTimitos: but I should have send you in odt16:27
cedkOK release 4.0 will no more use unoconv16:31
yangooncedk: you see, you made a choice, based on your personal opinion16:36
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cedkyangoon: I made a choice to give choice16:39
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rmusending quotations as odf or doc is stupid IMHO, for multiple reasons. first, you can't embed fonts in these formats, so the document will look differently on customer's computers. I do care about such things. Second, you don't want customers to (accidentially) change your documents. Third, reality is that everybody can read PDFs everywhere, and nobody except a countable set can open ODFs.16:46
cedkrmu: this doesn't require trytond to generate PDF16:49
cedkrmu: more over if you want to prevent modification, PDF is not the solution, only a digital signature can16:49
cedkrmu: embed font in opendocument:
cedkrmu: also I'm not sure if unoconv embed the font when converting from odt16:56
rmucedk: PDF is sufficient for accidential modification. if customer modifies your quotations on purpose, which he has if it is in pdf format, digital signature won't help you either.16:57
cedkrmu: you can accidentaly modify a PDF for example if you open it with libreoffice16:57
rmucedk: IMNSHO, editable document formats are unsuitable for quotations, invoices etc..., you want something like PostScript for that, and PDF is sufficiently close to that16:57
cedkrmu: PDF are modifiable16:58
rmucedk: i also don't know if unoconv embeds fonts, libreoffice export to pdf does embed16:58
cedkrmu: more over in Tryton we set all odt as readonly16:58
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rmucedk: pdf is not intended to be modified, and it does not work really well. feels like modifying OCRd document. I doubt that normal users are using libreoffice to open PDFs regularly17:00
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rmucedk: in that sense, everything is modifyable; e.g. you can manually path a .dvi file, but that also would not happen accidentially, and nobody in their right mind would do that except in "desparate" situations.17:02
cedkrmu: so I see no valid point to prefer PDF over OpenDocument17:02
cedkfont embedded supported in libreoffice since 3.3.1
rmucedk: pdf is the only document format that is capable of producing identical-looking documents among different computer systems and platforms that is widely available and accepted.17:08
cedkrmu: where does that come?17:09
cedkrmu: what about images? :-)17:09
rmucedk: linebreaks and pagebreaks are not stable from one computer to another, not with microsoft .doc files and not with openoffice documents17:10
rmuimages would work too, but 300dpi+ PNGs are a bit too large for the information contained in text17:10
cedkrmu: so it is not the *only* format17:10
udonocedk: Will it be possible to re-integrate unoconv as a module?17:11
cedkrmu: any way, it is not a requirement that most of users have17:11
cedkudono: see #503217:12
rmucedk: i said the only format that is available and accepted. sending quotations as 300dpi PNGs would surely be interpreted as unfriendly act, i would certainly do so.17:12
udonocedk: #5032 looks promising.17:14
rmucedk: I agree that unoconv is not reliable and i would not want it running on the server.17:16
cedkrmu: also it is quite utopic to talk about linebreak position for a generated document17:17
rmucedk: you think it's ok discussing a quotation with your customer over the phone to look at differently looking documents? where maybe not even the number of pages don't match? TeX goes to great lengths to ensure stable page- and line-breaks on different systems. with word, line breaks depend on system printer resolution (at least in word 2000 era, don't know what it is like now). with libreoffice/openoffice, I don't know what it depends on, sometime17:26
rmus/don't match/do match/17:26
cedkrmu: I guess it is mainly for the font which is fixed if you embed it17:27
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cedkrmu: also you should have reference/code on your lines instead of talking about relative position17:29
rmucedk: I very much doubt that the rendering of open document files by word resembles the rendering of libreoffice, even if fonts are embedded.17:35
cedkrmu: but most usage doesn't care about that17:36
rmucedk: most usage just relies on it implicitly17:37
cedkrmu: like you rely on HTML email to be rendered17:38
rmucedk: if i want to have responsive documents that looks differently everywhere, adapting to screen, i would send html17:38
rmucedk: and not pre-paginated document intended for print17:39
cedkrmu: have you an example of ODT that doesn't render the same?17:39
rmucedk: which .odt is17:39
rmucedk: yes, i can probably find one, in this case it was font issue17:40
cedkany way, I don't care anymore of the discussion as most users don't care of this level of details abotu rendering17:40
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rmucedk: regarding fonts, usually, you are allowed to embed fonts into pdfs, but not necessarily to embed them in an editable format that would allow you to reuse the font17:40
rmuyeah. nevermind. normal user should not have to care.17:41
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cedkfor those who wants to improve the Debian package installation experience:
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