IRC logs of #tryton for Friday, 2018-05-18

chat.freenode.net #tryton log beginning Fri May 18 00:00:01 CEST 2018
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jmpoureHello everyone. I am Jean-Michel Pouré and I am willing to contribute some documentation to Tryton, starting with installation issues. I propose to ask questions on the mailing list and then submit and discuss patches to documentation.11:05
pokolijmpoure: Hi, Sergi here (I replied you on mailing list)11:05
pokolijmpoure: feel free to ask the questions here first ass you will probably have faster responses11:05
jmpoureThanks. I will be starting with trytond/INSTALL11:05
jmpoureSee doc/topics/install.rst11:05
jmpourecan doc/topic/install.rst be compiled using a command line or is this the end-user documentation?11:05
cedkjmpoure: you should check the discussion on https://bugs.tryton.org/issue739711:05
cedkjmpoure: and there is a Makefile in trytond/doc11:05
jmpoureThanks, I registered Tryton issue tracker.11:05
jmpoureSorry I am quite unfamiliar with Python documentation. In the doc tree, what make command should I run to display all documentation ? make help shows:11:05
jmpourePlease use `make <target>' where <target> is one of11:05
jmpourehtml      to make standalone HTML files11:05
jmpoureWhen typing make html nothing happens.11:05
jmpoureSorry it is in _build/html11:05
jmpoureThis is quite complex.11:05
cedkjmpoure: this is sphinx: http://www.sphinx-doc.org/en/stable/#11:05
semariethe last line on the console after issuing the "make html" command should be: "Build finished. The HTML pages are in _build/html."11:05
jmpoureOkay, this is what need to be written in INSTALL not simply "See doc/topics/install.rst".11:05
jmpoureI can read Sphinx HTML documentation now, thanks. Is there a default way to read Sphinx documentation from command line?11:05
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nicoejmpoure: I'm afraid I don't understand the question but you can use lynx or firefox11:05
jmpoureOK. This is written in readme: sphinx-build doc/ doc/11:05
jmpourein fact sphinx-build doc/ doc/ fails as source and destination forlders are not the same. On the converse sphinx-build doc/ html/ works and creates a seperate html folder.11:05
Timitoswhy are you not using "make html"?11:05
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jmpourebecause it is written in trytond/INSTALL11:05
jmpoureSorry Trytond/README11:05
jmpoureI am trying to start writting documentation somewhere :)11:05
jmpoureOne issue with Tryton is that it has too many information entry points. A newcomer like me is lost and does not know where to start, even reading documentation is not straightforward.11:05
Timitosi agree. i think it would be good to first have a plan how to change that and to discuss the plan first and after there is an agreement about how to improve the structure of the documentation to start changing it11:05
cedkTimitos: I do not think it will work to have a big plan11:05
cedkdocumentation is created not differently than code11:05
cedkand I think we should improve documentation like we do for the code with small steps11:05
Timitoscedk: but otherwise i see the risk that jmpoure proposes you something and put a load of work in it and in the review you propose a completely different way to solve it. i want to prevent frustration11:05
cedkand I find https://bugs.tryton.org/issue7397 is a good starting point11:05
TimitosIMHO it is always better to have a plan than to start without one11:05
cedka small plan that can be explained in few sentence in the bug tracker is OK11:05
cedkbut a complete strategic plan for Tryton communication will never be achived11:05
cedkso I agree with jmpoure that the README and doc folders are duplicate and https://bugs.tryton.org/issue7397 is about that11:05
jmpoureLet's go simple the way it is done in free software projets. If it is simple to explain, then it is simple to fix and the users understand immediately.11:05
jmpoureI propose to point INSTALL to README writting something like :11:05
jmpoure(this is just a very quick proposal for discussion).11:05
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jmpoureOK. Readme points to INSTALL.11:05
cedkI think as I said in https://bugs.tryton.org/issue7397, it is even better to remove INSTALL and README, and use only doc/11:05
jmpoureIt is also my opinion. There are too many information entry points and it must be a nightmare to handle.11:05
jmpoureINSTALL should point to README.11:05
cedkthey may be some part of README's that should be moved into doc/index.rst probably11:05
cedkjmpoure: what do you mean by "point"?11:05
jmpoureREADME should explain how to make the HTML documentation.11:05
jmpoureI mean a simple phrase like "Please read the file README which explains how to view Tryton complete documentation".11:05
cedkjmpoure: I prefer to not have the file at all11:05
jmpoureOK, but you should explain at least to people like me how to make the documentation. What file is displayed by default by github ?11:05
cedkI do not think building the doc is a very important task, people will read it on doc.tryton.org11:05
cedkjmpoure: github should not be our principal concern, it is just a code mirror11:05
jmpouregithub is a concern because people connect to github like people use Google nowadays.11:05
jmpouregithub shows README. So INSTALL can be safely removed.11:05
jmpourei will write and new README and come back with a nice solution. Just give me some time.12:05
cedkjmpoure: I think README should be removed because it duplicates information with doc/12:05
jmpoureYou are right, but doc is a subfolder and people to have to look in subfolders unless it is requested from README.12:05
jmpoureEvery free software project has a README file, so it does sound normal for Tryton to have a very simple README file.12:05
jmpoureWe are more  of the same opinion.12:05
jmpoureYou advice people to read the documentation online or in the doc folder.12:05
jmpoureI am of the same opinion.12:05
jmpoureBut the readme should inform people where to find documentation: online or in the doc folder.12:05
nicoeCan github display something else than the README file ?12:05
jmpoureI don't know.12:05
nicoehttps://help.github.com/articles/about-readmes/12:05
nicoe"If you put your README file in your repository's root, docs, or hidden .github directory, GitHub will recognize and automatically surface your README to repository visitors."12:05
jmpoureyes, but people downloading Tryton also need a simple README in the main directory.12:05
jmpourePersonnaly, I like github guidelines, why not stick to them.12:05
cedkjmpoure: why? if there is a doc folder12:05
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jmpoure\/doc inside trytond12:05
cedkjmpoure: I'm talking about all repositories12:05
jmpoureI understand.12:05
cedkfor me, trytond should be treated like others repositories12:05
jmpoureOK, but I was only speaking of trytond at first.12:05
cedknicoe: it will be better if github would also use doc/index.rst12:05
nicoewhile I agree that github is a major factor when searching for softwares, the README file don't have to be in the root of the repo to be displayed12:05
nicoecedk: yes but they don't12:05
cedkI do not care about where the README is, I do care about duplicate information between doc/ and README12:05
jmpoureLet's agree there should be no duplicates.12:05
cedkalso for me, the description on PyPI is more important than the Github mirror12:05
jmpoureThe README should only contain a very general presentation and then point to documentation on website or in the \doc folder. That's it.12:05
jmpoureSo we all agree, give me 30 minutes to write a proposal.12:05
cedkand if we can not find a working solution it is still possible to remove tryton mirror from github12:05
jmpoureof README file.12:05
jmpoureThis is a separate issue. Are you jocking :)12:05
jmpoureOne issue I found was that it was easier to use hgnested.12:05
jmpoureI would have preferred a single repository with all modules available.12:05
jmpoureThis is another issue, let's discuss later with github.12:05
cedkjmpoure: but we already have a general README text in all modules which as it is general is not helpful12:05
jmpoureWhat do you mean ?12:05
cedkjmpoure: generic/general does not provide information12:05
cedkdevelopers care more about the doc/ folders than the README which is almost never updated12:05
cedkso I prefer to have only one file which is updated12:05
jmpoureOK.12:05
cedkalso having a README that just says look at the doc/, I find this inderection quite annoying12:05
cedkI got such case for some software12:05
jmpoureLet me have a look.12:05
cedkand I would prefered to not have a README file because I would have looked directly to the doc folder12:05
jmpoureOK. If you look directly on the \/doc folder, what file to you open first?12:05
jmpourePersonnaly, I had to read MAKEFILE to understand where to start in \/doc folder.12:05
jmpoureand then I typped "make help" which is complicated.12:05
jmpoureIf you preffer to have only online documentation, this is also a choice. Just write in the README that all Tryton documentation is online at doc.tryton.org12:05
cedkjmpoure: index.rst12:05
jmpourecat index.rst is written in some wiki syntax. It is not suitable from command line.12:05
jmpoureExample:12:05
jmpoure* Looking for specific information? Try the :ref:`genindex`, :ref:`modindex`.12:05
cedkindeed I'm wondering if we should keep the sphinx manchinery in the repositories only trytond and tryton has one12:05
pokolijmpoure: rst is for restructured text which is what you cal wiki syntax :)12:05
pokolicedk: but other respositories are nested inside the trytond docs on doc.tryton.org12:05
jmpoureOK.12:05
cedkpokoli: doc.tryton.org is built from http://hg.tryton.org/doc.tryton.org/12:05
jmpoureAhhhh!12:05
cedkindeed it will be good to have an index.rst which minimal rst command so it can be used as README on github and as description on PYPI12:05
jmpoureThis is becoming too complicated for me. Make it simple and point the README to http://doc.tryton.org12:05
jmpoureThe main focus is to fix the documentation and remove duplicates.12:05
cedkjmpoure: but this may point to the wrong version of the documentation12:05
cedkwe could use include directive to separate them: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/ref/rst/directives.html#including-an-external-document-fragment12:05
cedkmaybe we could keep the README and indeed include it in the doc/index.rst12:05
jmpoureSounds nice.12:05
jmpoureOn my side, I would like to give more information about the installation process and I will focus on that.12:05
jmpourePlease go ahead with simplications and remove files if needed.12:05
jmpoureTalk to you soon.12:05
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andrespolitiis is possible to modify a translation of an existing module with an extension?16:05
andrespolitii mean modify a translation in a module from another module16:05
cedkandrespoliti: http://doc.tryton.org/4.8/trytond/doc/topics/translation.html#override-translations17:05
andrespolitithanks17:05
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