| irc.libera.chat #tryton log beginning Thu Jan 26 12:10:02 AM CET 2023 | ||
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| pokoli | cedk: I have the feeling that you prefer if we do not contribute to tryton and you do everything by yourself | 10:43 |
|---|---|---|
| cedk | pokoli: think what you want | 10:47 |
| pokoli | cedk: just wanted to share my frustration because it seems impossible to code something that is good enought to be added on tryton | 10:51 |
| pokoli | If I feel such frustration I can not imagin others that are new to the project | 10:52 |
| cedk | people want quality but not for their contributions, wtf! | 10:56 |
| pokoli | cedk: quality and perfectionism are two different things. | 11:05 |
| pokoli | cedk: for me the problem is following all the process and after two months we are requested other things that where not discussed | 11:05 |
| pokoli | cedk: for example https://foss.heptapod.net/tryton/tryton/-/merge_requests/101 sincerly I do not know what I need to do to accept the MR | 11:11 |
| pokoli | Just breaking them into several commits? In such case why requesting it (which may lead to failure) instead of doing it by your self and accept the MR? | 11:12 |
| cedk | pokoli: that's call development and review | 11:16 |
| cedk | even if you follow everything, I will never give a white card | 11:16 |
| pokoli | cedk: Don't get me wrong, I do not what a white card, just to make it easier for everyone. You included | 11:18 |
| cedk | pokoli: but that's the problem, quality is not easy | 11:28 |
| cedk | for easy stuff, there is an easy tag | 11:28 |
| pokoli | cedk: what will happen if we lower a little bit the quality requirements? | 11:29 |
| pokoli | cedk: maybe making a little bit easier to contribute will allow more people to do the work and we will be able to do more | 11:30 |
| cedk | pokoli: more work to maintain | 11:35 |
| pokoli | cedk: more people mantaining it | 11:35 |
| cedk | ACTION still waiting for someone else to maintain | 11:37 |
| cedk | 99% of contributions are people solving their problem | 11:38 |
| pokoli | cedk: I have most of the contributions already deployed to customers by using custom code | 11:41 |
| pokoli | cedk: so the problem is fixed for us, we just want to fix it for everyone | 11:42 |
| pokoli | I can not agree with such 99% | 11:42 |
| cedk | pokoli: ok show me issue that have been solved by someone else than the reporter | 11:52 |
| pokoli | cedk: https://foss.heptapod.net/tryton/tryton/-/issues/11802 | 11:55 |
| pokoli | https://foss.heptapod.net/tryton/tryton/-/issues/11749 | 11:56 |
| pokoli | But I do not see what is wrong when somebody fixes it issues. Indeed if somebody do that nobody will need to take care of issues created by others | 11:57 |
| cedk | pokoli: that's not what I'm sayin | 11:59 |
| pokoli | cedk: so what are you saying? | 12:01 |
| cedk | that 99% of contributions are people solving their problems | 12:03 |
| cedk | so 1% are only maintaining | 12:03 |
| pokoli | cedk: but anyone contributing is maintaining the software | 12:09 |
| pokoli | if they fix they problem that problem won't be need to be fixed by somebody else | 12:10 |
| pokoli | for me it is expected that most of the people is solving their own problems. As far as it makes the project better that is good for the project | 12:11 |
| cedk | this creates only self centered contributions so do not complaint that it is frustating | 12:14 |
| pokoli | cedk: If I get frustrated when doing my own contributions how can I start fixing somebody else problems? | 12:15 |
| pokoli | Nobody will start fixing somebody else issues if he can not fix their owns | 12:15 |
| cedk | pokoli: no because you are frustating because you are self-fixing | 12:18 |
| pokoli | cedk: my frustration it seems impossible to contribute improvements for requests of our customers | 12:19 |
| cedk | proof is that your arguments against my concerns are "we are using it", "it works for us", "it solved our problem" | 12:19 |
| cedk | pokoli: precisely, you must not contribute requests from your customers | 12:19 |
| cedk | you must contribute general improvements | 12:20 |
| pokoli | cedk: of course we just contribute what we think is generic enought to be used for others | 12:20 |
| pokoli | thats why we share the requests on discuss to find if they are generic enought or not. | 12:21 |
| pokoli | Or at least to have a desing that can be reusable latter | 12:21 |
| pokoli | for example. Same customer requested: Salary Scale and Expenses management | 12:22 |
| pokoli | customer went live 1st of January, we did all the developments from september to december | 12:22 |
| pokoli | Current situation is that we failed to contribute salary scale and I feel frustrated because I will like to have also expenses managemed | 12:23 |
| pokoli | So I do not need to reimplement none of them once another customer request them | 12:23 |
| pokoli | About https://discuss.tryton.org/t/allow-different-invoice-sequences-on-the-same-period/1779 I have like 5 customers using custom code because we never managed to find a generic solution for it | 12:24 |
| pokoli | Each time spent in maintaining custom code is time that we can not invest in mantaining tryton code | 12:25 |
| pokoli | this request is three years old now | 12:28 |
| pokoli | we uploaded a review three years ago (and this is what our customers are using and it works) but then it was decided to implement in another way | 12:31 |
| pokoli | which was never implemented | 12:31 |
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| cedk | so what? | 13:07 |
| cedk | you are just complaining that we do not include your stuffs because they are used by your customers | 13:08 |
| cedk | this happens all the time and for everybody | 13:08 |
| cedk | I have PR pending for 10 years | 13:09 |
| pokoli | cedk: and you complain that you are do only one maintaining the code. So what we do? | 13:13 |
| pokoli | so if we just complain we will never change anything and will never improve | 13:14 |
| pokoli | cedk: When someting is required for several customers I understand this is a general improvement | 13:15 |
| cedk | I stop discussing now because this is going nowhere | 13:16 |
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| pokoli | cedk: ok, we can stop the discussion here. I will think about it and I will like to continue someday in the future | 13:16 |
| udono[m] | It is so sad to read for me, that you are so frustrated, the way it goes. | 13:26 |
| udono[m] | you both | 13:27 |
| udono[m] | In the moment we are in a time of disturbance, because we changed many parts of our old development tools. Everybody needs to learn a lot new techniques and routines. This takes time, understanding and patience. | 13:30 |
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| udono[m] | But some of the pain points are not new: Maintenance is too much work for one person. Contributions taking too long. | 13:32 |
| udono[m] | For me it looks like one and the same problem, viewed from two sides: maintainence (much work) - contribution (long time). | 13:38 |
| udono[m] | Maybe it is helpful, when we collect ideas how to delegate (parts) of the maintenance work to more people and what measurements would speedup contributions. | 13:42 |
| udono[m] | And maybe it is better to wait some time with the discussion, until more people are getting better practice with the new tool set. | 13:43 |
| udono[m] | amen | 13:43 |
| pokoli | udono[m]: I think talking is the only way to improve such thinks. Frustation will go, I'm sure | 13:48 |
| pokoli | udono[m]: I have the feeling that tool set is not rellevant in the discusion. I worked with both new and previous toolset | 13:49 |
| pokoli | But I must adming that I'm very happy with the new one and I do not want to go back | 13:50 |
| udono[m] | pokoli: yes, Iam also very happy with the new toolset, evolve and topics. | 17:31 |
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