IRC logs of #tryton for Friday, 2008-08-29 #tryton log beginning Fri Aug 29 00:00:01 CEST 2008
-!- yangoon( has joined #tryton05:19
-!- Gedd(n=ged@ has joined #tryton08:21
-!- Timitos(n=Timitos@ has joined #tryton08:29
-!- rli( has joined #tryton09:07
-!- bechamel( has joined #tryton09:09
-!- b52laptop(n=b52lapto@ has joined #tryton10:07
-!- cedk(n=ced@gentoo/developer/cedk) has joined #tryton10:16
-!- nicoe( has joined #tryton10:39
-!- markusleist( has joined #tryton10:58
CIA-53tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 71:e1f39facb766 product/ Fix typo for issue29211:14
CIA-53tryton: ced roundup * #292/tryton client: spell check on tabs?: [chatting] typo fixed with changeset e1f39facb76611:14
CIA-53tryton: ced roundup * #292/tryton client: spell check on tabs?: Would you want a option to activate the spell checking?11:15
-!- markusleist( has joined #tryton11:30
-!- leyoda( has joined #tryton11:57
CIA-53tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 715:a8f72f5775bc tryton/tryton/gui/window/view_form/screen/ If parent domain have child_of, don't replace the domain with id for issue29312:01
CIA-53tryton: ced roundup * #293/error in creating new company: [resolved] Fix with changeset a8f72f5775bc12:01
bechamelcedk: i was doing the config wizard for issue288, and i though about his usage: For the one who want to test tryton: he doesnt care about chosing packing sequence, he just want to test. For the one who want to deploy tryton he will not want to hand-configure his erp, he will learn how to manage configuration with xml and have control over it. So to fix this issue i propose to only allow modification on it.12:50
-!- ruijuan_( has joined #tryton13:07
CIA-53tryton: matb roundup * #292/tryton client: spell check on tabs?: No, there is no sense for me doing spell checking on application tabs, that are not meant for input.13:51
udonocedk: I found the error from yesterday, why the payment_term.description is not printed out: There is a need to have the tag: invoice.setLang( and or 'en_US') If this tag is not given, the payment_term.description is false.13:57
cedkbechamel: I'm not aggree14:16
cedkbechamel: because it is relay part of the configuration14:16
bechamelcedk: and ?14:17
cedkudono: if you have payement term in only one language14:17
udonocedk: yes14:18
cedkbechamel: I find that modify ir.sequence to allow modification from xml, is not good14:18
CIA-53tryton: ced roundup * #292/tryton client: spell check on tabs?: On 29/08/08 13:51 +0200, Mathias wrote: > > Mathias <> added the comment: > > No, there is no sense for me doing spell chec ...14:18
bechamelcedk: and what will happend if i add a config wizard? it will also allow sequence modification14:19
cedkbechamel: but not for every sequence14:19
cedkbechamel: and in this wizard, we can alos propose to modify the location structure14:20
cedkudono: the invoice.setLang make all field from invoice that is translatable to the right language14:21
cedkbechamel: and other things that will come later14:22
bechamelcedk: same answer: new user just want to test, for real install the modification must be made in xml, not by hand at the first run14:22
cedkbechamel: no, we don't write software for test but for real installation14:22
bechamelcedk: of course14:22
cedkbechamel: and it is a way to show to user what he can configure14:23
bechamelcedk: and for a real install i'm sure you will do the config by hand ...14:23
cedkbechamel: otherwise, if we follow your thinks, we must remove the add user wizard, the account chart wizard, etc...14:23
cedkbechamel: because it is not realy usefull for user testing14:23
cedkbechamel: configuration must not be made with xml files14:24
cedkbechamel: it is really a bad idea14:25
bechamelcedk: for user: yes lets remove it, i dont need a wizard to encode simple things like a user, for account chart no, the account chart config wizard is a real plus14:25
cedkbechamel: because the configuration change over the time14:26
cedkbechamel: user wait for this kind of things14:26
cedkbechamel: look at any big software installation, there is always a wizard to configure it14:27
bechamelcedk: and they ancode users by hand at the first run ?14:27
bechamelancode > type14:27
cedkbechamel: we don't care how they will encode, but we must propose to create somes on installation14:28
cedkbechamel: because it is not good to work with admin user14:28
cedkbechamel: and for small buisness, they will encode surely it by hand14:28
bechamelcedk: yes but it's friendlier to type users inside the user form instead of the wizard14:29
cedkbechamel: next things will be to allow to safe the configuration and put it on an other install14:30
cedkbechamel: we don't care, at first run, user don't know the application14:30
bechamelcedk: yes and what happen: he is welcomed with several wizard that he doesn't understand at all14:31
cedkbechamel: no, we must make understandable wizards14:32
bechamelcedk: even i i'm sometimes lost with them (is it the company form or the user form ?)14:32
yangoonbechamel: cedk: as bechamel says: why not present normal user form at beginning14:33
cedkbechamel: we must add also the title on the forms14:33
yangoonI remember, that I was confused when first trying tryton, if those users will be application users, or members of the enterprise, or...14:34
bechamelcedk: real story: is install all, then "add user" wizard, i don't care => escape, then "add company", don't care, => escape, then "choose account chart" with two field: company and template => damn i forgot that i have to define a company : i was stuck14:34
cedkyangoon: it is the normal form for user14:34
bechamelcedk: every forms looks similar14:35
bechamelcedk: the main problem i think is that they are called automaticaly, so the user get popup that e didn't ask for14:35
cedkbechamel: I will add the title like in any other forms, it was a mistake to not add it14:36
cedkbechamel: sorry, but it is a process, if you don't create a company, you can not use the ERP14:36
bechamelcedk: what should be good is to provide another button (i don't know where) : "configure this moduel"14:37
bechamelcedk: like that the user know what's happening14:37
cedkbechamel: the first things we display is a info box with what it will happen14:39
bechamelcedk: yes but the user has no choice: either he choose to do the config and he msut do all the config for all the installed modules, either he choose not to do it and bye bye the config wizard is lost14:42
cedkbechamel: and so ?14:46
bechamelcedk: so what i see is to provide a new button on module to call the config wizard, that allow to skip it at install14:47
bechamelcedk: and after the install ask the user "call now" "config later"14:48
cedkbechamel: for the button, we need to save from wich modules comes the configuration wizard14:51
yangoonI think tryton won't be functional without some basic data14:51
cedkbechamel: and it can failed because it need to have perhaps an other configuration wizard to be run before14:51
yangooneither you prvide sample data or you force the user to configure them14:52
cedkbechamel: and at first install, the user have the choice to configure or not14:52
cedkyangoon: what do you mean ?14:54
bechamelcedk: the button on a module can call another wizard if needed, and yes the user have the choise but it's not enough, whe must allow the user to miss something, to change his mind, etc (if not it's like an editor without unod button)14:54
bechamel*choice *undo14:55
yangoonif you leave the app unconfigured. tryton probably won't work, correct?14:55
cedkyangoon: there wil be many error message for the user about missing stuff14:55
bechamelyangoon: all you do in the config wizard can be made inside the rest of the app14:56
cedkbechamel: technicaly, it is not really possible, because it is many wizard that are called one after others14:56
bechamelyangoon: you only need to not forget to add enough data (users, account chart, etc)14:56
yangoonall what is absolutely necessary for the application to work should be done at the beginning without the possibility to quit14:57
yangoonor if you quit, sample data should be inserted14:58
cedkyangoon: I'm agreed with you14:58
yangoonbest for my taste:14:58
yangooninform the user, what has to be done at the beginning and the present the wizards/forms14:59
cedkyangoon: except for the sample data14:59
bechamelcedk: and what about a checkbox "configured" on the module, so wizard first  check for the moduls it depend on and see and if they are not configurer return "please configure this module"14:59
cedkbechamel: the way configuration wizard works is not strictly linked to a module14:59
cedkbechamel: you can have many configuration wizard that are set up by one module15:00
cedkby the way, I think we must add to the account setup the create of a fiscalyear15:00
bechamelcedk: so let's show them to the user with a o2m on the module form, like that he now whats happening15:01
bechamelcedk: +1 for the fiscalyear15:01
yangoonif an unconfigured module will leave the app (partly) unfunctional, the user should be urged to do it15:01
bechamelcedk: the problem is the "now or never" behaviour15:01
cedkbechamel: we don't have the information about configuration wizard before installation15:02
yangoonperhaps really good idea to present unconfigured modules at login15:02
yangoonif you permit unconfigured modules15:03
cedkyangoon: that is what it is done15:03
cedkbechamel: we can add instead of only one "Cancel", a "Later" button15:03
yangoonI think I wouldn't permit unconfigured modules15:04
bechamelcedk: yangoon: you see it's difficult to understand what is done by the config wizards15:04
cedkbechamel: I see nothing15:04
bechamelcedk: """<yangoon> perhaps really good idea to present unconfigured modules at login if you permit unconfigured modules <cedk> yangoon: that is what it is done"""15:05
cedkbechamel: because I suppose that yangoon never leave unconfigured modules :-)15:06
yangoonbechamel: cedk: a message at the beginning (first setup): The following things have to be configured for tryton to work... and not start the app until it is done15:06
yangooncedk: me not, but as bechamel says15:07
bechamelcedk: i don't want to impose a solution, i just want to say that for the moment the config stuff is to rough and need to be improved15:07
yangooncedk: many users just quit to look fast into the application, and configuration is forgotten or misdone15:08
bechamelyangoon: exactly15:08
cedkwe can add an entry menu in the adminstration to run all the configuration wizard that are not yet done15:08
cedkyangoon: we can remove the cancel button15:09
yangoonbechamel: cedk: I would propose to force some basic configuration, it probably doesn't have to be done for each module15:09
yangooncedk: Yes!15:09
cedkyangoon: but it doesn't prevent for a force quit by the user15:09
yangooncedk: but then the app should do a logout: cu next time;)15:10
cedkyangoon: yes we have only 3 modules for now that have configuration wizard on total of 23 modules15:10
bechamelcedk: yangoon: removing cancel button is a bad idea15:10
cedkyangoon: with newer version of gtk it is possible to disable the close button (but it doesn't work on windows)15:11
cedkbechamel: in fact we must define what does cancel button15:12
cedkbechamel: it can just stop the wizard and let the user login15:12
udonoHi all, Why not following different paths? First Configuration of a module is a documentation thing, Second Configuration could be made by hand or via XML-data, last a wizzard makes first install easyer for new users... Unconfigured modules only show their Configuration Menuentry...15:13
cedkor it can make this configuration wizard concidered as runned15:13
cedkor both15:13
cedkudono: I'm not sure it is good to make configuration with xml file15:14
bechamelcedk: stop the wizard and let the wizard conciderred "unrun"15:15
cedkudono: I talk about the xml file from modules because we can implemented an other xml file for configuration15:15
cedkbechamel: so this means that it will run on the next login15:15
cedkudono: I like the idea of disable menu, but I don't see how to do for now15:16
bechamelcedk: talk about harassment.. :)15:17
bechamelcedk: to disable menu: active false maybe15:17
udonocedk: maybe the configuration wizzard creates the menuelements after checking the requirements...15:18
cedkudono: this will no more work with the update process15:18
cedkI think the best will be to add a kind of rule on ir.ui.menu15:19
cedkand add a link between menu and configuration wizard15:20
cedkand the rule will be don't show menu that have configuration wizard not runned15:20
udonocedk: maybe we need two different function of what we name Configuration wizzard...15:21
bechamelcedk: udono: i think it's a good idea, but this mean that user mus have the possibility to ask to see the menu anyway15:22
udonocedk: the idea with rules seemes good, but we need maybe a configuration checker (for checking if all config requirements fulfilled) and a configuration wizzard (for easy configuring)15:22
udonocedk: so we can make configuration by hand/by script or at least by wizzard...15:23
cedkbut in fact, it will be very hard work to do, because if you don't have account configured, you must have sale, purchase, analytic, ... disable15:23
udonocedk: the wizzard becomes a tool, which just put all configitems together...15:24
cedkudono: that is not a problem as there is a table where you set if the configuration has run15:24
cedkudono: so you just need to update it15:24
udonocedk: you can find out the dependings via the modules graph. If an parent element is not configured, all childs needs to be disabled...15:25
cedkand what about module that modified other object15:26
cedklike account that add accounting properties on product15:26
cedkis product must be disable as soon as the acocunt module is not configured ?15:27
udonocedk: interesting question15:28
bechamelcedk: it's the same problem if i install only relationship, use it some times and after i install account15:28
cedkI think we must make the application without configuration working without crashing15:28
cedkbut with many error messages15:28
bechamelcedk: the app already run without config i do it all the time15:28
cedkbechamel: yes but if you try to make a purchase, you will have many error messages about missing stuff15:29
cedkthat is not a problem, it is just that we make well the test15:29
bechamelcedk: yes and i add them by hand if needed, and sometimes i blame myself not to have used the wizard (and that why i think that it would be cool to provide a way to call config wizard anytime)15:31
udonocedk: bechamel: But we need to know what is required to configure for each module, the wizard is for me just an instrument to make configuration process easy...15:32
cedkbechamel: somes can not be run twice15:32
bechamelcedk: yes, so they are disabled when used once15:33
cedkbechamel: but which one do you want to run after cancel it ?15:34
cedkbechamel: not the user creation :-)15:35
cedkif it is account chart creation, you can run it from account>configuration15:35
udonoother idea, installing modules with unconfigured dependencies is forbidden15:36
bechameludono: the first idea about config came  from camp2camp (a tiny partner): they provided an extra menuitem "configure" who was containing other menuitem: "1.create partner", "2; define foo", etc. And it was working, non-obstrusive15:37
cedkbechamel: for the packing sequence, I find what is the problem15:37
bechamelcedk: :)15:38
cedkbechamel: you must create on sequence but without prefix nor suffix15:38
cedkbechamel: just like other one for purchase15:38
cedkbechamel: this allow the user to modify it15:38
cedkbechamel: but not remove it :-)15:38
cedkbechamel: it is not from c2c, it is from me :-)15:39
bechamelcedk: yes ?15:39
cedkbechamel: yes15:39
udonobechamel: I told, for me configuration checking and configuration wizzard are completely different functionalities15:40
cedkbechamel: and the wizard idea comes by discuting with dominique15:40
bechamelcedk: so, what about providing such a menuitem, which will contain all the wizards in the right order ?15:40
cedkbechamel: go to Administaration>ir>module>configuration wizard15:41
cedkbechamel: we just need to add a button that run the right wizard15:42
cedkudono: for the configuration test, I think it is difficult to say if the system is configured or not15:43
cedkudono: because it depends of the usage of each module15:43
bechameludono: from a technical pooint of view there is no need to check the config, everything is check when needed (because it's always possible to mess up things created by the config wizard), but i agree that the app can be very painfull to use if one don't use the config wizard15:43
cedkespacially for accounting stuff because others generaly works without configuration15:44
bechamelcedk: +1 for the wizard list. So the only thing the is laking is to provide a way to call them "by hand" :)15:45
bechamelcedk: hey and the list already contain a state: "Done", "Open"15:46
cedkbechamel: I fixed the sequence on packing15:46
cedkbechamel: I assign the issue to me :-)15:46
CIA-53tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 196:fdd5fcdfdd8a stock/packing.xml: Remove prefix from sequence for issue28815:47
CIA-53tryton: ced roundup * #288/cannot change customer packing sequence: [resolved] Fix with changeset fdd5fcdfdd8a15:47
cedkbechamel: of course, it is why I say that the login process will call back wizard that are not be runned15:48
cedkbechamel: and why we can have cancel and later button15:48
bechamelcedk: the problem with leaving the sequence empty is that .. they are empty15:48
cedkbechamel: it is not a problem15:49
cedkbechamel: user will customize it15:49
bechamelcedk: yes later +1, and a way to call them when i want15:49
bechamelcedk: when the user want15:49
bechamelcedk: :)15:49
cedkbechamel: that's all, mister ;-)15:50
bechamelcedk: the idea of a "configure" menu was good it think, and this menu (and submennu) disapear when wizards are completed15:50
bechamelcedk: now that all :D15:50
cedkbechamel: I don't think so because at Tiny no body never use it15:51
bechameludono: what do you think about that ?15:51
bechamelcedk: there was such a menu in tiny ?15:51
bechamelcedk: it must be the first menuitem15:52
cedkbechamel: it is not very functional15:54
bechamelcedk: functional ?15:54
cedkbechamel: udono will answer, it needs DOCUMENTATION :-)15:54
udonobechamel: The Idea is good ;-) Maybe we can hide the compleate Tryton Menu if not all Modules are configured. Like a parallel menustructure...15:55
udonoI think its to complicated to find out which is configured, which not, so disable all until they are all configured...15:57
cedkudono: and what about module installed during the used15:57
udonocedk: just update the menutab automatically after installing a module no need to Ctrl-T-R. All open Tabs stay open15:59
bechameludono: why force the user to use the wizards ?16:00
cedkI think the best is make every thing possible to force user to run the configuration but if he really don't want let it go16:00
bechamelcedk: has yangoon said the user will skip all the popup asap without reading16:01
udonobechamel: I told you the wizard is just a quick configure thing. If a module _is_ configured need to be decided in another mechanism.16:03
cedkudono: by default there are configured, you can use it directly like that16:04
bechamelcedk: except the account stuff16:05
cedkudono: but you will have message about missing this or that16:05
udonocedk: yes, I understand. But then everything is fine like it is. The wizzard is alternative to configure by hand or importing data via a custom module...16:07
cedkudono: yes16:08
udonocedk: so what we need on the accounting stuff to do that it runs unconfigured?16:09
CIA-53tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 716:97ae0a1dcfcf tryton/tryton/wizard/ Add title on wizard dialog16:10
CIA-53tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 893:2d4fe6e3a206 trytond/trytond/ (ir/module/module.xml res/user.xml): Remove separator on wizard as there is now a title16:10
CIA-53tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 183:fcd2e2587d46 account/account.xml: Remove separator on wizard as there is a title now16:10
CIA-53tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 51:62d519821242 company/company.xml: Remove separator on wizard as there is a title now16:10
udonocedk: I think fiscal year can be created via another wizzard, same periods, same sequences.16:10
cedkudono: yes, I already think about that16:11
cedkbechamel: with this push, I think you will no more confuse user creation with company creation :-)16:11
bechamelcedk: ;)16:12
cedknicoe: for the graph in tryton, it is there: tryton/gui/window/view_form/view/graph_gtk16:12
cedkthere is still one issue opened, for issue29216:14
cedkwhat do you think about spell check?16:14
cedkI was thinking about adding a button to activate it or not16:15
nicoecedk: I already noticed it ... it is indeed very similar to pycha16:15
cedkand allow to specify the language with an attribute instead of the user language16:16
bechamelcedk: i'm not sure to understand the issue292, the screenshot doesnt show that the tab is underlined, is it the case somewhere ?16:16
cedkbechamel: I don't think that he talk about the tabs16:17
cedkbechamel: but more about information that comes from the system16:17
bechamelcedk: so the problem is only with textarea ?16:18
cedkso there is no need for spell checking there or at least activated it by default16:18
cedkbechamel: spell check is only on textarea16:18
bechamelcedk: and the button will be where ? on the user preference ? on the form itself ?16:19
cedkbechamel: don't know that why I talk about here16:19
cedkmaybe it must be on the xml view with an attributes16:20
cedkbecause on purchase, there is a textarea but normally you must write in it in the language of the party and not in your language16:20
bechamelcedk: yes16:20
cedkso I think it will be good to have an attribute that canbe used to provide the language16:21
cedkand so the activation of spell check will be made on the fact that this attributes has a value or not16:21
bechamelcedk: seems ok16:22
cedkand for others16:22
cedkyangoon: ping16:22
bechamelcedk: and was thinking "and what about the user who want to change the langage by hand" but imo it's a bit overkill16:22
bechamelruijuan_ markusleist nicoe cedk b52laptop bechamel Timitos Gedd yangoon CIA-53 FWiesing @ChanServ udono irclog : ping16:23
bechamelcedk: ;)16:23
cedkbechamel: you are going to be banned !16:24
bechamelcedk: why ?16:24
Geddbechamel: pong16:24
Geddwhy pinging everybody?16:24
cedkbechamel: because of that :-)16:24
yangoonhi everybody:) pong16:25
cedkGedd: it is bechamel that makes the child16:25
bechamelGedd: to have the point of view of everybody about the spellcheck stuff16:25
Geddwhat spellcheck stuff?16:25
cedkyangoon: it is you that fill the issue292?16:26
yangoonI don't can see any sense in spellchecking on areas, that are only for display (and not for editing/inserting)16:26
yangooncedk: yes16:26
cedkyangoon: what do you think about the proposition?16:27
yangooncedk: to make it configurable?16:27
bechamelyangoon: cedk: yes, first think to do is do disable spellchecking on readonly fields16:27
cedkyangoon: to just enable spellchecking with an attributes on the tag of the view16:27
cedkbechamel: we will fix all that stuff in one step16:28
cedkso think first and make after16:29
yangoonor should I say: sinking16:29
cedkwe have some field where the language will not be the user language but the party language16:29
yangooncedk: if someone wants spellchecking he ha to live with that...16:30
cedkyangoon: why?16:31
cedkyangoon: if we can make it better16:31
yangooncedk: as you say: different language for user or party related fields16:32
yangoonspellchecking IMHO is a feature for input of text snippets, so I don't see the purpose in tryton16:33
cedkyangoon: one used, is for the textarea in purchase or sale where you can add comments that will be on the report16:34
cedkas it is for clients, it can be good to have spellchecking on that16:34
yangooncedk: yes, there it could be of some use, but only there16:35
yangooncedk: names are often marked by spellcheck, but they are correct16:35
cedkyangoon: ok, so the solution of a tag attributes seems good16:35
yangooncedk: you are the chief;)16:36
yangooncedk: I am not so deep yet in tryton: if this means, that it will be configurable for certain fields on user base: great!16:37
cedkyangoon: yes by field but not by users16:38
yangooncedk: the user himself is able to mark the field as "spellcheckable" field?16:39
cedkyangoon: not with an attributes solution, it will be the developpers that say if the field is spellcheackable16:40
yangooncedk: ok, and if marked by the developper, is there a way it can be turned off by the user/admin?16:41
cedkyangoon: by a module16:42
cedkyangoon: or we can add also a configuration options on the client to enable or not the spellcheck16:43
yangooncedk: second would be great!16:43
cedkyangoon: I will do both16:44
yangooncedk: =d>16:45
yangoonhave to go, bye to all16:57
-!- udono( has left #tryton17:08
-!- udono( has joined #tryton17:27
-!- udono( has joined #tryton17:30
-!- udono( has joined #tryton17:47
CIA-53tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 894:0406af77372e trytond/trytond/res/ Fix typo19:07
CIA-53tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 895:63241e28e9fc trytond/trytond/ir/ Add constraint on decimal_point thousands_sep19:07
CIA-53tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 896:1d9fb7de7f61 trytond/trytond/ir/ui/ (form.rnc form.rng): Add spell attributes for textarea19:07
CIA-53tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 717:0a0528f8d625 tryton/ (4 files in 4 dirs):19:07
CIA-53tryton: Handle spell attributes on textarea19:07
CIA-53tryton: Add option for spell checking19:07
CIA-53tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 76:a30d7d5bb369 purchase/ ( purchase.xml): Add party_lang for spell checking on comment fields19:07
CIA-53tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 77:81a68b7be68a purchase/purchase.xml: Fix set spell on wrong field19:07
CIA-53tryton: ced roundup * #292/tryton client: spell check on tabs?: [resolved] Spell check on readonly field fixed with changeset 0a0528f8d62519:08
CIA-53tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 197:6230f0326b0c stock/ Add stock_date_end in context if no one is given for forecast_quantity22:38
CIA-53tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 718:edc8e544629e tryton/tryton/gui/window/view_form/view/form_gtk/ Show dialog before instanciate screen to have the login window popup correctly22:38

Generated by 2.11.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!