IRC logs of #tryton for Tuesday, 2008-12-16 #tryton log beginning Tue Dec 16 00:00:01 CET 2008
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2008-12-16 00:33 <CIA-53> tryton: ced roundup * #674/Modules: Userside switching language doesn't work any longer: Can you put the logs of the server?
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2008-12-16 09:29 <CIA-53> tryton: Timitos roundup * #676/cannot cancel install wizard: [new] i tried to create a new db with newest changesets. everythings was ok at creation. when i logged into the new db user creation wizard popped ...
2008-12-16 09:34 <CIA-53> tryton: Timitos roundup * #677/error in tax code creation from tax code templates: [new] i updated our account chart module account_de_skr03_2008 with a more complex structure of tax codes. the tax codes are imported correctly in ...
2008-12-16 09:39 <CIA-53> tryton: Timitos roundup * #676/cannot cancel install wizard: [resolved] sorry. my fault. forgot hg fupdate.
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2008-12-16 10:08 <CIA-53> tryton: Timitos roundup * #678/validation error in xml of purchase module: [new] i tried to install purchase on a ubuntu 8.04 machine. i get this validation errors: i do not get theses errors on a ubuntu 7.10 machine [Tu ...
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2008-12-16 10:13 <CIA-53> tryton: udo.spallek * r383 /wiki/ including Tryton attribute to field descriptions
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2008-12-16 10:40 <Cristi_an> <Cristi_an> yesterday rvalyi said :
2008-12-16 10:40 <Cristi_an> <Cristi_an> mean, to manage to build a full blown generic ERP, you have no choice be also master a modular plateform, like Eclispe. Else it's not modular, it's monolithic and hererogene like SAP, but that second option means a LOT of money to maintain it
2008-12-16 10:40 <Cristi_an> <Cristi_an> from what i see tryton seems to be modular....
2008-12-16 10:40 <Cristi_an> <Cristi_an> something like eclipse...
2008-12-16 10:40 <Cristi_an> <Cristi_an> what was his point then ?
2008-12-16 10:41 <cedk> Cristi_an: i don't know
2008-12-16 10:42 <Cristi_an> cedk, from modularity poin of view Tryton stays very well....
2008-12-16 10:42 <Cristi_an> maybe ...removing modules will not hurt to have
2008-12-16 10:42 <CIA-53> tryton: Timitos roundup * #679/KeyError: 'salable': [new] Traceback (most recent call last): File "/tryton/gui/window/view_form/view/form_gtk/", line 329, in sig_new window=self._wi ...
2008-12-16 10:43 <CIA-53> tryton: Timitos roundup * #679/KeyError: 'salable': [chatting] tried to create a product from invoice line form
2008-12-16 10:45 <udono> Cristi_an: in the long run I think we need a completed modules management not only with state 'depends'. More over with states like 'conflicts' and 'provides' like a distribution management like dpkg/apt or portage have...
2008-12-16 10:46 <Cristi_an> yee but now there are more important things to be done....
2008-12-16 10:46 <Cristi_an> like some very good and stable basic modules...
2008-12-16 10:47 <Cristi_an> that what you said is the nice to have but not mandatory
2008-12-16 10:47 <udono> Cristi_an: I think so, too.
2008-12-16 10:48 <udono> Cristi_an: it will become mandatory when we have a lot of more modules to maintain like openERP. They have massive problems with a missing modules management, I think...
2008-12-16 10:48 <Cristi_an> agree
2008-12-16 10:54 <udono> Cristi_an: on the other side, the modules of B2CK are constructed like we have already a completed modules management. They are builded generical, so they could be reused ealsily with or without a module management, I think. If you say for example, the Party module 'depends' on the Country module, or the Country module 'provides' country resource to Partner module is just a small change to the modules self...
2008-12-16 10:55 <Cristi_an> last part i did not understoot "Partner module is just a small change to the modules self.."
2008-12-16 10:55 <Cristi_an> uderstood
2008-12-16 10:55 <Cristi_an> /understood/understood
2008-12-16 10:56 <Cristi_an> you mean Country may be used for other modules easily ?
2008-12-16 11:02 <CIA-53> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 1118:d8360e183d08 tryton/tryton/gui/window/ Fix typo
2008-12-16 11:02 <CIA-53> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 1119:bf41f7ef5a3d tryton/doc/usage.rst: Add doc for email
2008-12-16 11:04 <udono> Cristi_an: no, I talk about the 'complete' module management in future. country and party module can easily transformed to another relationship then actually 'depends' when we have them. But what you say is right, too, Country may be used for other modules easily...
2008-12-16 11:05 <Cristi_an> cool !
2008-12-16 11:07 <udono> Cristi_an: I am just dreaming. Not more.
2008-12-16 11:09 <Cristi_an> udono, i hope your dreams come true...
2008-12-16 11:10 <rvayi> udono: I already tought about a web2.0 portal for users to report conflicts and everything they think about modules; how to improve them, if they are dead, if an other is better...
2008-12-16 11:10 <Cristi_an> rvayi, good you are here
2008-12-16 11:10 <Cristi_an> i wanted to ask you something
2008-12-16 11:10 <Cristi_an> #tryton :[freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you.
2008-12-16 11:10 <Cristi_an> <Cristi_an> <Cristi_an> yesterday rvalyi said :
2008-12-16 11:10 <Cristi_an> <Cristi_an> <Cristi_an> mean, to manage to build a full blown generic ERP, you have no choice be also master a modular plateform, like Eclispe. Else it's not modular, it's monolithic and hererogene like SAP, but that second option means a LOT of money to maintain it
2008-12-16 11:10 <Cristi_an> <Cristi_an> <Cristi_an> from what i see tryton seems to be modular....
2008-12-16 11:10 <Cristi_an> <Cristi_an> <Cristi_an> something like eclipse...
2008-12-16 11:10 <Cristi_an> <Cristi_an> <Cristi_an> what was his point then ?
2008-12-16 11:11 <cedk> rvayi: for use it is roundup
2008-12-16 11:13 <rvayi> Cristi_an: well; IMHO both OpenERP and Tryton achieve something that is less polish, may be less consistent, but probably just as effcient if not more (because it is simpler)
2008-12-16 11:13 <rvayi> Cristi_an: and for sure, I've been looking at others oss ERP's no one have something coming close
2008-12-16 11:13 <rvayi> Openbravo is just running after modularity now...
2008-12-16 11:14 <Cristi_an> ii saw som erps myself as well
2008-12-16 11:14 <rvayi> but I fear it's only a buszzword for them, they are VERY VERY far from that kind of modularity
2008-12-16 11:14 <Cristi_an> not deep but on surface
2008-12-16 11:14 <Cristi_an> Tryton seems to have the best modularity (open erp as well i guess)
2008-12-16 11:15 <rvayi> Cristi_an: weel, I had the oppportunity to go deeper sa the company were I'm working ( funded a 9 man month comparison/study around oss ERP's
2008-12-16 11:15 <rvayi> Cristi_an: sure
2008-12-16 11:15 <Cristi_an> rvayi, i use eclipse every day...and indeed it;s modularity is stable and quite nice done
2008-12-16 11:15 <Cristi_an> rvayi, really
2008-12-16 11:15 <Cristi_an> ?
2008-12-16 11:16 <Cristi_an> rvayi, why did ythey do that ?
2008-12-16 11:16 <rvayi> Cristi_an: OpenERP and Tryton are lacking some static constraints Eclipse have, but on the other hand the OpenERP/Tryton extension system is very efficient
2008-12-16 11:17 <Cristi_an> rvayi, by comparing ERP systems can you make some public results out of that study ?
2008-12-16 11:17 <rvayi> Cristi_an: because they wanted to choose the best tool for an their ERP consultancy and also because we had to tell the world now we also integrate ERP's
2008-12-16 11:17 <rvayi> I wrote this during that time (French):
2008-12-16 11:19 <rvayi> Tryton came too late for it. yeah, in the report Openbravo tends to be overestimated, that's for sure. But could couldn't come and say: hello: unfortunately I'm sad to say that only one product is correct and it's called TinyERP, others are just plain crap...
2008-12-16 11:20 <rvayi> Note I'm not telling OpenERP is perfect, but it's really not too bad either
2008-12-16 11:20 <Cristi_an> i see
2008-12-16 11:20 <rvayi> I guess Tryton should be auite as good then. From now one, I would certainly rate Tryton as the second best oss ERP after OpenERP
2008-12-16 11:21 <udono> rvayi: :-)
2008-12-16 11:21 <Cristi_an> what about Adempiere,compirer,Jfire
2008-12-16 11:21 <rvayi> Cristi_an: also concerning Openbravo, they raised 18M$ in total, so may be they come up with something one day, so we gave them a chance I should say.
2008-12-16 11:21 <rvayi> Cristi_an: Adempiere: it's a bit the Tryton of Compiere
2008-12-16 11:22 <Cristi_an> OpenBravo had some EU funding received
2008-12-16 11:22 <rvayi> Cristi_an: IMHO Compiere is acceptable but very expensive and the techno is very stupid compared to OpenERP, the abstraction level is just too low
2008-12-16 11:22 <rvayi> Admepier doens't really do better. They just open a space for the old compiere customers/intergartors fed up with Compiere costs
2008-12-16 11:23 <rvayi> JFire and a few other ones might have a better tech basis, but I think they are very far in term of features and it will take them really too long to come even close
2008-12-16 11:24 <Cristi_an> I would like to do ...but i gave up to the ideea to do somethign simlar that Tryton is
2008-12-16 11:24 <rvayi> BTW, May be they will be stopped by OpenERP. I mean, now that the world will understand that their is an ERP that doesn't suck, they will try it, I really doubt they will change for something else (may be Tryton)
2008-12-16 11:25 <Cristi_an> but in JAva usign Eclispe RCP...
2008-12-16 11:25 <Cristi_an> and Spring
2008-12-16 11:25 <rvayi> Cristi_an: sure, but IMHO; it takes like 3 years to build an ERP. And OpenERP is already their, will be like free, so I think their is no more space
2008-12-16 11:26 <rvayi> BTW, I would rather use JRuby on Rails than the J2EE bloated stack
2008-12-16 11:26 <Cristi_an> i figured that also
2008-12-16 11:26 <rvayi> I started an ActiveResource OpenERP wrapper BTW, only a prooof of concept
2008-12-16 11:26 <Cristi_an> Tryton seems to be ...for me at least
2008-12-16 11:26 <Cristi_an> the best choice...,but since i developed in java for lat 10 years...
2008-12-16 11:27 <Cristi_an> is difficult to understant details in the code (python)
2008-12-16 11:27 <rvayi> Cristi_an: IMHO: OpenERP/Tryton could be like 10% more productive using JRuby/Rails (+java where it makes sense at the low level, like webservice, XML, not for the funbctionnal layer)
2008-12-16 11:27 <Cristi_an> but as you said...there is no space
2008-12-16 11:27 <rvayi> but even running 10%, by starting from scratch, one will never come close to them
2008-12-16 11:27 <Cristi_an> and time...
2008-12-16 11:27 <Cristi_an> BTW
2008-12-16 11:28 <Cristi_an> ruby is not only WEB ?
2008-12-16 11:28 <rvayi> Cristi_an: I was myself a Java progarmer since 2003
2008-12-16 11:28 <rvayi> not at all, have a look to monkeybars or JRuby swing dev
2008-12-16 11:28 <Cristi_an> it follows the pythons path ?
2008-12-16 11:28 <Cristi_an> 2 years ago...
2008-12-16 11:28 <rvayi> Cristi_an: Ruby is just the best langague to model business things
2008-12-16 11:29 <Cristi_an> hmmmm....:)
2008-12-16 11:29 <Cristi_an> your are evengelist of ruby ?
2008-12-16 11:29 <Cristi_an> :)
2008-12-16 11:29 <Cristi_an> you know pyton as well ?
2008-12-16 11:30 <rvayi> So I was saying: I was coding Java since 2003? I first started my study with Openbravo, while disregarding TinyERP which I was thinking their is not enough code, how could this be serious. Aftyer a Fabien Pickaesr demo, I said: wow there are MUCH more features in Tiny than any others I've seen
2008-12-16 11:31 <rvayi> Then gave it a try and I could do things very advanced very quickly while I couldn't to the most basic stuff with Openbravo, lost in their build process, hugly code generation stuff and all that crap
2008-12-16 11:32 <Cristi_an> nice to hear about you experience
2008-12-16 11:33 <Cristi_an> but how come you come to the conclusion the ruby is best for bussines models ?
2008-12-16 11:33 <rvayi> Cristi_an: I guess my Ruby on Rails experience with dynamic languages helped me to get used to dynamic languages
2008-12-16 11:34 <Cristi_an> rvayi, but for enterproise appications....nobody use ruby
2008-12-16 11:34 <Cristi_an> rvayi, until Tryton
2008-12-16 11:34 <Cristi_an> i did not even heard about python being used for such things
2008-12-16 11:35 <rvayi> Cristi_an: it's very cannonical: very easy to read and you'll always find a way to model things with less words than you need to explain it in plain english. Somthing you really can't do in Java were boiler code willa arrise (decorators, factories, Spring; XML and all that pluming crap)
2008-12-16 11:35 <rvayi> Cristi_an: Python is almost as good a Ruby IMHO
2008-12-16 11:35 <rvayi> not as good, but quite close, so I'm mean it's ok
2008-12-16 11:35 <Cristi_an> rvayi, but you have the expertise to say you know both languages
2008-12-16 11:35 <Cristi_an> ?
2008-12-16 11:36 <rvayi> Cristi_an: you mean Python and Ruby?
2008-12-16 11:36 <Cristi_an> yes
2008-12-16 11:36 <rvayi> I know Java VERY well and Ruby quite well. I'm less used to Python but I'm typically very comfortable with writing OpenERP functionnal modules
2008-12-16 11:37 <rvayi> not the orm or osv internal layers were some more magic happens
2008-12-16 11:37 <Cristi_an> in terms of java i may say the same as you
2008-12-16 11:37 <Cristi_an> that is what intrigues me :)
2008-12-16 11:37 <rvayi> Cristi_an: for instance Python will do len(my_funcking_table)
2008-12-16 11:37 <rvayi> to get the lenghth
2008-12-16 11:37 <rvayi> this is fucking stupid an hugly
2008-12-16 11:38 <rvayi> Ruby, on the contrary will do [1,3,4].length
2008-12-16 11:38 <rvayi> Ruby (re-powered by Rails) can do things like 3.days_ago and give you the date 3 days ago
2008-12-16 11:39 <rvayi> Java will use a ton of different redundant hugy helpers for that
2008-12-16 11:39 <rvayi> sucking my neurones for remembering what the fucking date helper might be and do in the pecular framework? Ruby just free my mind of all that crap
2008-12-16 11:40 <rvayi> and let me do what really matters
2008-12-16 11:41 <rvayi> Cristi_an: Ruby hadn't to invent Jasper and a all the taglib system crap. An HTMl tag in Ruby is just a Ruby standard closure, a usual Ruby statement, no need to re-invent crappy libs
2008-12-16 11:42 <Cristi_an> Jasper Reports you mean ? (or is an english say ) :)
2008-12-16 11:42 <rvayi> when you open and close (or say a DB transaction) a file in Ruby, using a closure again, then you are sure that it will be closed later, it's enforced by te syntax, no need to use PMD code checker or anything else here
2008-12-16 11:43 <Cristi_an> in python si more complicated ?
2008-12-16 11:43 <rvayi> Cristi_an: no was talking about the Jasper JSP templating engine (for web dev).
2008-12-16 11:43 <rvayi> Cristi_an: it's less beautifull than Ruby
2008-12-16 11:43 <Cristi_an> there are a lot of them
2008-12-16 11:44 <rvayi> and Ruby has JRuby which is just brillant, the best Ruby implementation now, letting call/delegate to java whenever you need (for speed for instance)
2008-12-16 11:44 <Cristi_an> speed in Java ?
2008-12-16 11:44 <rvayi> Cristi_an: Java has C speed, remeber. Python and Ruby don't come close
2008-12-16 11:44 <Cristi_an> Java...c speed ? common
2008-12-16 11:44 <rvayi> but JRuby and Python are still faster than PHP for instance
2008-12-16 11:45 <Cristi_an> !
2008-12-16 11:45 <rvayi> yep
2008-12-16 11:45 <Cristi_an> no is close...but still a virtual machine
2008-12-16 11:45 <rvayi> Cristi_an: a warmed up JVM runs at C speed and sometimes faster
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2008-12-16 11:45 <Cristi_an> it isa fast now...agree
2008-12-16 11:46 <Cristi_an> it evolved...a lot
2008-12-16 11:46 <Cristi_an> since 2000
2008-12-16 11:46 <rvayi> Cristi_an: a VM ca do hot optimisations a static ccompiler can't do, because hotspot optimize the code from a statistically analysis of its true real call path
2008-12-16 11:46 <rvayi> Cristi_an: a lot? You loosed if you missed that
2008-12-16 11:46 <rvayi> err, mean a lot
2008-12-16 11:46 <rvayi> let number speak:
2008-12-16 11:47 <rvayi> Cristi_an:
2008-12-16 11:48 <Cristi_an> wow
2008-12-16 11:48 <rvayi> that site is a reference if you think their is a fraud, just send a better algo fro your favorite language, everyone does it (but the algo should stay the same) and this is how it stands
2008-12-16 11:49 <rvayi> Cristi_an: memeory consumption is higher, and VM startup is slower, but in a server model, it's just better because it runs as fast and it's easier to code/maintain
2008-12-16 11:49 <Cristi_an>
2008-12-16 11:49 <rvayi> JRuby just surfed on the JVM perf, beating C Ruby
2008-12-16 11:49 <rvayi> Cristi_an: welcome
2008-12-16 11:50 <Cristi_an> brrrrrrrrr
2008-12-16 11:50 <rvayi> I guit form Amadeus (very big IT firm doing ERP's for airlines) because the tech boss got it plain wrong with Java
2008-12-16 11:50 <rvayi> so we were doing C++ because he thought Java was a crap...
2008-12-16 11:51 <Cristi_an> :)
2008-12-16 11:51 <rvayi> I will laugh a lot when their stuff will die costing millions just because they were so wrong
2008-12-16 11:51 <Cristi_an> wish them the be cruel
2008-12-16 11:53 <rvayi> Cristi_an: air travel crashed alon, no need to invoke tech issues ;-)
2008-12-16 11:53 <rvayi> yet an other visonnary stance from them ;-)
2008-12-16 11:55 <cedk> The bottleneck of Tryton is not Python but PostgreSQL
2008-12-16 11:55 <Cristi_an> why ???
2008-12-16 11:55 <rvayi> cedk: why?
2008-12-16 11:56 <rvayi> beacuse it's complicated so noobs can't use it?
2008-12-16 11:56 <Cristi_an> is that very hard to migrate to mysql or firebird ?
2008-12-16 11:56 <Cristi_an> or to even make it DB independent (as much as possible )
2008-12-16 11:57 <CIA-53> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 1120:220849c7282d tryton/tryton/gui/window/view_form/view/ ( Better label for print menutoolbutton
2008-12-16 11:57 <CIA-53> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 1121:0d287f339117 tryton/tryton/gui/window/ Use a treeview for file actions
2008-12-16 11:58 <bechamel> the bottleneck is not postgres itself, but the number of query that are sent to it (another dbms will not improve the situation)
2008-12-16 11:58 <cedk> because for data integrity, we need to use serialize connection
2008-12-16 11:59 <cedk> bechamel: no, it is not necessary the number of queries, because if so we can reduce it
2008-12-16 11:59 <bechamel> cedk: yes, the bottleneck is the developer :)
2008-12-16 12:00 <Cristi_an> do you have a real use case ?
2008-12-16 12:00 <cedk> and it is not postgresql that is not performant, but for what we need to do, it is normal that postgresql take some times
2008-12-16 12:00 <cedk> anyway, there is always a bottleneck in a application
2008-12-16 12:00 <Cristi_an> when do you sense that a bottleneck happens...?
2008-12-16 12:00 <cedk> it is not that the software is slow
2008-12-16 12:01 <cedk> Cristi_an: as I just say, there is always a bottleneck
2008-12-16 12:01 <Cristi_an> cedk, sorry fopr not understanding talk to general
2008-12-16 12:02 <udono> ACTION Laotse say: When there is a bottle, then you have a bottelneck
2008-12-16 12:03 <Cristi_an> "_
2008-12-16 12:03 <Cristi_an> :)
2008-12-16 12:03 <cedk> Cristi_an: what I say is that teh part of Tryton that determined the time for a request is PostgreSQL not Python code
2008-12-16 12:03 <Cristi_an> cedk, the only thiong may be then SQL
2008-12-16 12:04 <Cristi_an> cedk, but you are sure that the SQL cause the bottleneck ?
2008-12-16 12:04 <Cristi_an> there may be some bussines logic that is nto done optimum
2008-12-16 12:05 <cedk> Cristi_an: I don't think so, where do you find that Tryton is slow ?
2008-12-16 12:06 <Cristi_an> well....i told you before....
2008-12-16 12:06 <Cristi_an> in windows...
2008-12-16 12:06 <Cristi_an> the UI..seems slower then a native applicaiton even thatn a java one...
2008-12-16 12:06 <cedk> Cristi_an: and you must always make compromise between speed and (modularity, readablity, ...)
2008-12-16 12:07 <Cristi_an> maybe because of what rvayi said...
2008-12-16 12:07 <Cristi_an>
2008-12-16 12:07 <Cristi_an> anyway the slowness is not seen by a regular user...
2008-12-16 12:07 <Cristi_an> they can live ver very well with it
2008-12-16 12:07 <bechamel> Cristi_an: most of the business logic result in more sql queries, not python computation (there is no intensive computing, just read-write data)
2008-12-16 12:07 <Cristi_an> i see...
2008-12-16 12:07 <Cristi_an> i am just worried a little
2008-12-16 12:08 <bechamel> Cristi_an: the first exe for windows was slow, did you tried the last version ?
2008-12-16 12:08 <Cristi_an> since i will switch to python....
2008-12-16 12:08 <Cristi_an> btw ...exc eptr you 2 ....there is somebody that can update the core..(ORM)
2008-12-16 12:09 <bechamel> as i said, slow code are often due to a bad algo/bad development not the langage itself
2008-12-16 12:10 <Cristi_an> ok then...i berlive you 100%
2008-12-16 12:10 <Cristi_an> anyway for me is to early to express my opinions (only my concerns)
2008-12-16 12:13 <Cristi_an> thx for all
2008-12-16 12:13 <Cristi_an> BTW :)
2008-12-16 12:14 <cedk> Cristi_an: to update the core, I guess that OpenERP devs can also
2008-12-16 12:14 <Cristi_an> ???
2008-12-16 12:15 <Cristi_an> the core is rewritten by you no ?
2008-12-16 12:15 <cedk> Cristi_an: as it comes from the same code, they must be able to undrestood the changes we made
2008-12-16 12:18 <rvayi> cedk: OpenERp now have caches levels in its ORM and for Python computed fields. This certainly limit the number of queries. Does Tryton has something similar?
2008-12-16 12:20 <cedk> rvayi: no, because we don't think it is a good design
2008-12-16 12:20 <rvayi> cedk: why?
2008-12-16 12:21 <cedk> rvayi: and as bechamel said, it is generally because of bad programming that the system is slow
2008-12-16 12:21 <cedk> rvayi: if it is coputed fields, so stored will make duplicate data
2008-12-16 12:22 <cedk> rvayi: so you need a mecanism to synchronised it
2008-12-16 12:22 <cedk> rvayi: and by experience, synchro is most of the time bad
2008-12-16 12:22 <Cristi_an> in java any ORM sytem that has long history like, Hibernate,TopLink etc...have leves of cache...and they are used in real huge prod systems...
2008-12-16 12:22 <Cristi_an> why shoudl tht be considered as bad desing
2008-12-16 12:23 <cedk> Cristi_an: we have cache but we don't store computed field in the database
2008-12-16 12:23 <cedk> Cristi_an: and event, we have a caches with size limited (not like OpenERP)
2008-12-16 12:24 <Cristi_an> well that depends so much if the computed filed can be done from the same row is not need to store that...but if that envolves useful at least from my experience
2008-12-16 12:25 <Cristi_an> having a too normalized db is not that good (even if theory said it is) ....maybe i did not understood so ignore then what i just said
2008-12-16 12:25 <cedk> Cristi_an: for what I know, most of the use of function fields, can be writen without too much cost
2008-12-16 12:26 <rvayi> Cristi_an: and Rails (just implemented same cache levels as well) BTW IMHO the cache invalidation system of OpenERP is clean
2008-12-16 12:29 <Cristi_an> rvayi, "BTW IMHO the cache invalidation system of OpenERP is clean" ?
2008-12-16 12:29 <rvayi> Cristi_an: I mean: they have ways to register triggers that will invalidate a cached field, see th sale_order implementation
2008-12-16 12:30 <cedk> rvayi: I don't think so, the first issue I saw is for inheritage
2008-12-16 12:32 <cedk> rvayi: and by the way, it is not an invalidation of the cache but a re-compute of the field
2008-12-16 12:33 <cedk> so if you have a field that depends on many records, it will be recomputed very often
2008-12-16 12:33 <cedk> even if you don't read it
2008-12-16 12:36 <cedk> by example, each time the invoice is written, it computes the 3 amounts (untaxed, tax, total)
2008-12-16 12:36 <cedk> so in the workflow of the invoice, there is many write to change the status
2008-12-16 12:36 <cedk> so each time the amounts are computed
2008-12-16 12:37 <cedk> I don't find it is a good design, nor a speed improvement
2008-12-16 12:37 <Cristi_an> but you takl about inmemeory computations ?
2008-12-16 12:39 <cedk> Cristi_an: no they store the result in the database
2008-12-16 12:40 <Cristi_an> well is that a bad thing ? what if i want a report and i want to see only a resume of the invoices that i had last year (customer,date,number,total_invoice) ?
2008-12-16 12:40 <Cristi_an> then i have to do a select only on invoice and partenr table (join) to have taht
2008-12-16 12:40 <cedk> Cristi_an: you can do it, with waht we had
2008-12-16 12:41 <cedk> Cristi_an: use the models
2008-12-16 12:41 <Cristi_an> but i have to do larger queries no ?
2008-12-16 12:41 <cedk> Cristi_an: it will not cost so much
2008-12-16 12:41 <Cristi_an> to involve the invoice_details as well
2008-12-16 12:41 <Cristi_an> where each product is
2008-12-16 12:42 <cedk> Cristi_an: it is just a join with a clause that has index
2008-12-16 12:43 <cedk> Cristi_an: and diplied the customer name will cost much that the total_amout
2008-12-16 12:43 <cedk> s/diplied/displaied/
2008-12-16 12:44 <Cristi_an> well pardon me but if i have like 10000 customers 100000 invoices and like 1000000 invoice dettails...
2008-12-16 12:44 <Cristi_an> does it worth to do such a query...?
2008-12-16 12:44 <bechamel> Cristi_an: for an annual report speed is not a big deal, but updating data for it each time you create an invoice is bad (frequent operation must be quick, not frequent operation can be slow)
2008-12-16 12:44 <Cristi_an> agreee....
2008-12-16 12:44 <Cristi_an> but there are OLAP
2008-12-16 12:45 <Cristi_an> and additinal data strcutures may be created for reporting
2008-12-16 12:45 <Cristi_an> Datawarehouse etc....
2008-12-16 12:45 <cedk> Cristi_an: accounting stuff must be hardened, and OLAP stuff are not very accurate
2008-12-16 12:45 <Cristi_an> buut having some computed fileds in the table is that going to affect so much inserts and upfdates
2008-12-16 12:46 <cedk> Cristi_an: I think so
2008-12-16 12:46 <bechamel> datawarehouse doesnt need "live" data, if its sync every night its ok
2008-12-16 12:46 <nicoe> Cristi_an, for OLAP you can you delegate the computation of such field to the ETL layer
2008-12-16 12:46 <Cristi_an> we are talking about the current tables that are used every day...
2008-12-16 12:46 <Cristi_an> "movements"
2008-12-16 12:47 <Cristi_an> this tables have to be kept in resonable size for optimum speed agree ?
2008-12-16 12:47 <bechamel> Cristi_an: why, there are indexes for that
2008-12-16 12:47 <bechamel> afk
2008-12-16 12:48 <Cristi_an> i do not understat having a talbr with milions of rows inside is not a problem but having a table with some extrac columns is a problem
2008-12-16 12:49 <rvayi> Cristi_an: (OpenERP, made the cache stuff for balance and other financial reports and also stock reports I think? They also use a MPTT for hierarchical structures, which is a bit the same kind of optim, I don't know where Tryton stands here)
2008-12-16 12:49 <cedk> Cristi_an: because if you want cache on a field, it is because you find that computed it will cost too much, so if you store the value and you re-compute it each time there is a change, you will compute this fields more than necessary
2008-12-16 12:50 <cedk> rvayi: MPTT is in Tryton before OpenERP
2008-12-16 12:50 <cedk> rvayi: and I don't think as I said previously that caching financial stuff is a good thing
2008-12-16 12:51 <rvayi> cedk: But I think that recomputation mainty occurs in an interractive time: like you alter a slae workflow: it will recompute, you won't even notice it, while if the partner balance has no cache it will just be really slow every time you wan to see it
2008-12-16 12:52 <cedk> rvayi: I think you create move line more often that you read the balance
2008-12-16 12:53 <cedk> rvayi: by the way, we had a computed balance for each fiscalyear when this one is closed
2008-12-16 12:53 <cedk> rvayi: so we store computed data when they will no more change
2008-12-16 12:54 <Cristi_an> i am tryng to follow you guys....BUT i know a general rule cache static data (that that do not have too much movements) (may be parteners ,countries etc) not fin data ....
2008-12-16 12:54 <cedk> Cristi_an: fin = ?
2008-12-16 12:54 <Cristi_an> finacial
2008-12-16 12:55 <rvayi> cedk: ok. But my point is that while caching you might very well recompute too much, but if you don that per while interacting perrecord, the user won't notice any lag because recomputing one field is negligible in front of the network latency
2008-12-16 12:55 <cedk> rvayi: not for Tryton :-)
2008-12-16 12:55 <rvayi> err, mean: if you recompute while manipulating one record, that's fast
2008-12-16 12:56 <cedk> rvayi: but if you think that computing the fields is not a problem for interactive, so why do you want to compute it when you read it
2008-12-16 12:56 <cedk> rvayi: false
2008-12-16 12:56 <cedk> rvayi: they don't do delta change, they compute every thing
2008-12-16 12:57 <cedk> rvayi: and if they do delta change, it is more bad that I thought
2008-12-16 12:57 <cedk> rvayi: I check it and the re-compute the field
2008-12-16 12:58 <cedk> so compute the balance each time a move is created vs compute the balance when it is readed
2008-12-16 12:58 <rvayi> cedk: beacause recomputing one filed might be fine and not even noticeable, but mass recomputing field in a report when their is no cache might not be acceptable
2008-12-16 12:59 <rvayi> cedk: no
2008-12-16 12:59 <cedk> by the way I check and OpenERP don't store the balance of accounts
2008-12-16 12:59 <cedk> rvayi: no FALSE
2008-12-16 12:59 <Cristi_an> nice talking to you....
2008-12-16 12:59 <Cristi_an> cu you soon ...
2008-12-16 13:00 <cedk> rvayi: if it is so, it is because it is bad programming
2008-12-16 13:00 <rvayi> cedk: the balance is not cached, but it's computed mostly from the DB. But an invoice total amount (will be used in the balance) is cached in the DB so the balance computation can use it. Now if you alter an invoice line, you do recompute the invoice total which is fine I think
2008-12-16 13:01 <cedk> rvayi: no FALSE, amount of the invoice is not used in the balance of account
2008-12-16 13:01 <rvayi> well, they do that kind of stuff with sale order at least and I guess what use it for instance is to know how much a customer might have ordered vs how much he has paid
2008-12-16 13:02 <rvayi> but that's the same idea how cache works
2008-12-16 13:02 <cedk> rvayi: you can not work on SALES for that, you work on account moves
2008-12-16 13:04 <rvayi> cedk: well, I'm not to much interested in where they use it exactly (no interrest inaccounting I should say) but I know why they use it and I think they are right
2008-12-16 13:04 <cedk> rvayi: no problem if you don't see tha bottleneck of this design
2008-12-16 13:05 <rvayi> cedk: well, I cam up with somthing similar for personnal project, so I think I rather why they do it like that, sorry
2008-12-16 13:07 <cedk> rvayi: just one thing, if you think it is speeding the software, did you test our demo server ?
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2008-12-16 13:09 <rvayi> cedk: not yet, but this is definitely on in my todo list
2008-12-16 13:10 <rvayi> cedk: speaking about speed, you might be interested in this one:
2008-12-16 13:11 <rvayi> I think they got it wrong here
2008-12-16 13:13 <cedk> rvayi: we do the same but it is not slow at all as we fetch only visible records
2008-12-16 13:14 <cedk> it is just a prefetch to have better fluidity in the UI
2008-12-16 13:15 <cedk> but I know that it can be very slow on OpenERP
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2008-12-16 13:57 <CIA-53> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 1366:f1de6c5b54d1 trytond/trytond/tools/ Fix creation of translation in xml import
2008-12-16 13:57 <CIA-53> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 1367:7a9374193f2a trytond/trytond/tools/ Improve xml import by using a BrowseRecordList for existing records
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2008-12-16 16:37 <CIA-53> tryton: matb roundup * #670/Error on update of some not very recent databases: [chatting] failing SQL for these databases: INSERT INTO "ir_action_act_window_view" (id,"act_window","sequence","view", create_uid, create_date) V ...
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2008-12-16 18:06 <CIA-53> tryton: matb roundup * #671/Cannot insert new products in purchases or sales: [chatting] [Tue Dec 16 17:59:03 2008] ERROR:web-service:Exception in call: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/tryton/trytond/tr ...
2008-12-16 18:09 <CIA-53> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 1122:11111aac4e92 tryton/tryton/common/ Remove print statement
2008-12-16 19:15 <CIA-53> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 1368:7d559c95817e trytond/trytond/tools/ Fix find_in_path to return the name if not found in path
2008-12-16 19:15 <CIA-53> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 1123:009fbf625271 tryton/tryton/common/ Use find_in_path for file_open and mailto
2008-12-16 19:15 <CIA-53> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 1124:d44a2fd221cf tryton/tryton/ Fix find_path for win32 and mac
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2008-12-16 19:29 <CIA-53> tryton: matb roundup * #680/Translated items not being any more displayed translated: [new] new database on changeset: 1379:42a0f4bf12b3 user: Cédric Krier <> date: Mon Dec 15 19:10:39 2008 +0100 summar ...
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2008-12-16 20:00 <udono> X0d_of_N0d:
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2008-12-16 20:38 <CIA-53> tryton: ced roundup * #678/validation error in xml of purchase module: [resolved] Update the purchase module.
2008-12-16 20:39 <CIA-53> tryton: ced roundup * #679/KeyError: 'salable': [testing] I think it is linked to the issue678
2008-12-16 20:40 <CIA-53> tryton: ced roundup * #677/error in tax code creation from tax code templates: [need-eg] Can you provide more informations?
2008-12-16 20:41 <Cristi_an> the python interpreter for windows is as good as in linux ?
2008-12-16 20:43 <vengfulsquirrel> Do you mean performance wise ?
2008-12-16 20:45 <Cristi_an> yes
2008-12-16 20:46 <bechamel> Cristi_an: I think it is, but maybe gtk is a bit slower, but it wasn't flagrant on my laptop
2008-12-16 20:46 <CIA-53> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 1369:4473fbe5217e trytond/trytond/ir/ Add migration from 1.0 remove multi on ir.action.act_window.view for issue670
2008-12-16 20:46 <Cristi_an> i guess most of the cliets you have have windows
2008-12-16 20:46 <CIA-53> tryton: ced roundup * #670/Error on update of some not very recent databases: [resolved] Fix with changeset 4473fbe5217e
2008-12-16 20:51 <bechamel> Cristi_an: as i told you before, the last exe is faster, did you try it ?
2008-12-16 20:51 <Cristi_an> no
2008-12-16 20:51 <Cristi_an> i download now...
2008-12-16 20:51 <Cristi_an> i am sure it is faster...
2008-12-16 20:54 <cedk> Cristi_an: globaly it is the same sources so it must not be very different
2008-12-16 20:55 <Cristi_an> thx
2008-12-16 20:55 <cedk> Cristi_an: The only things I know, is that on windows the previous TinyERP client was very slow because it needs to open many times the same big file with glade xml
2008-12-16 20:55 <bechamel> cedk: it depends which version Cristi_an was using before
2008-12-16 20:55 <cedk> Cristi_an: and on linux it was the same but there was no visible performence lost
2008-12-16 20:56 <cedk> Cristi_an: but it is not python the issue I guess, it is more windows OS
2008-12-16 20:56 <cedk> bechamel: I talk about Python only
2008-12-16 20:57 <cedk> for sure the version 1.0.1 is faster then the 1.0.0
2008-12-16 20:59 <Cristi_an> i run it right now
2008-12-16 21:00 <cedk> Cristi_an: and ?
2008-12-16 21:01 <Cristi_an> give me 3 min :)
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2008-12-16 21:05 <Cristi_an> well
2008-12-16 21:05 <Cristi_an> wind app looks gr8
2008-12-16 21:05 <Cristi_an> and behaves nice.
2008-12-16 21:05 <Cristi_an> a thing i noticed
2008-12-16 21:05 <Cristi_an> since i am maniac :)
2008-12-16 21:06 <Cristi_an> when firt time the party or other module is created (new party)
2008-12-16 21:06 <Cristi_an> it takes some time to create that
2008-12-16 21:06 <Cristi_an> maybe is because the demo server is belgium :)
2008-12-16 21:06 <Cristi_an> not local
2008-12-16 21:06 <Cristi_an> and the ui is created by reding from DB (my guess)
2008-12-16 21:07 <cedk> Cristi_an: it is normally only the first time you open a view because after there is some cache
2008-12-16 21:08 <cedk> Cristi_an: and also if there was no body that connect to the server since a long time, the cache can have been clean
2008-12-16 21:08 <Cristi_an> got it !!!!
2008-12-16 21:09 <Cristi_an> guys with your help in 3 months...
2008-12-16 21:09 <Cristi_an> i'll code romanian modules...:)
2008-12-16 21:11 <Cristi_an> but plz remain as comunicative as you are now :)
2008-12-16 21:12 <cedk> Cristi_an: we will do our best
2008-12-16 21:13 <CIA-53> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 336:bffa4fda0026 account/ Fix guidelines
2008-12-16 21:13 <vengfulsquirrel> I'm going to make a wiki page for the MRP module, and begin to list out features and functionality in there and we can began to form a consensus on what's important. Does that sound good ?
2008-12-16 21:14 <Cristi_an> thx...
2008-12-16 21:14 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: yes
2008-12-16 21:15 <vengfulsquirrel> I'm still reading and whatnot but I have some basic questions. Is it improper for a module to change the database schema of other module's table layouts?
2008-12-16 21:18 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: what do you mean by changing the schema ?
2008-12-16 21:20 <cedk> I just check the module document_webdav_old of Tiny, and in fact they used an old version of pywebdav, so it is logical that they had performance issue
2008-12-16 21:21 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: if it is just adding new columns, there is no issue
2008-12-16 21:21 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: but if it is make one field required, this can make an issue
2008-12-16 21:22 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: in many modules, we extend other models that is the main purpose of modularity
2008-12-16 21:23 <vengfulsquirrel> Hmm well for example this book talks of separating "parts" from "products".
2008-12-16 21:26 <vengfulsquirrel> The current system only covers products.
2008-12-16 21:28 <vengfulsquirrel> If they were different the stock module would have to track quantities of parts INSTEAD of products, whereas products would be defined consisting of parts using a BOM.
2008-12-16 21:28 <vengfulsquirrel> I think I'm way ahead of myself here though, but knowing that adding a column is OK is helpful.
2008-12-16 21:29 <vengfulsquirrel> Do modules need to support being un-installed at all?
2008-12-16 21:46 <X0d_of_N0d> udono: hey
2008-12-16 21:47 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: you're working on mrp in Tryton??
2008-12-16 21:47 <udono> X0d_of_N0d: hello
2008-12-16 21:48 -!- cristi_an(n=cristi@ has joined #tryton
2008-12-16 21:48 <udono> X0d_of_N0d:
2008-12-16 21:49 <vengfulsquirrel> X0d_of_N0d: Well I'm just trying to help with the planning right now, and maybe when I get up to speed on everything else I'll actually be "working" on something.
2008-12-16 21:50 <X0d_of_N0d> udono: The module looks good, I've got to do a bunch of other stuff before I get a chance to really check it out but at first glance it looks nice
2008-12-16 21:50 <udono> X0d_of_N0d: the ldap part is on you...
2008-12-16 21:50 <udono> ;-)
2008-12-16 21:50 <X0d_of_N0d> udono: cool, np
2008-12-16 21:51 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: mrp is actually the only thing in the way of our company using tryton instead of tinyerp...
2008-12-16 21:51 <udono> X0d_of_N0d: do you know this:
2008-12-16 21:52 <cristi_an>
2008-12-16 21:53 <cristi_an> what is __doc__ means ?
2008-12-16 21:54 <vengfulsquirrel> cristi_an: Its part of python's built-in functionality that gets the doc string of the class.
2008-12-16 21:54 <X0d_of_N0d> ACTION looks at the google groups thread
2008-12-16 21:54 <cristi_an> k.
2008-12-16 21:54 <cristi_an> when i create a class like that one.
2008-12-16 21:55 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: is there any plan on adding finite capacity scheduling?
2008-12-16 21:55 <cristi_an> the db table is create by the framework ?
2008-12-16 21:55 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: into the mrp module
2008-12-16 21:55 <cristi_an> or do i have to create that ?
2008-12-16 21:56 <X0d_of_N0d> udono: that's really interesting....
2008-12-16 21:56 <vengfulsquirrel> X0d_of_N0d: The plan hasn't started yet. I'm going to make a wiki page with a feature list and we'll add stuff to it and then decide on what's most critical to start.
2008-12-16 21:56 <udono> cristi_an: google for python docstring
2008-12-16 21:56 <cristi_an> ok...that is clear..
2008-12-16 21:56 <cristi_an> ii found that in dive into pyton...
2008-12-16 21:56 <udono> cristi_an: class table is done by ORM
2008-12-16 21:56 <cristi_an> gr8
2008-12-16 21:57 <cristi_an> i think is better for me to start doing a module
2008-12-16 21:57 <cristi_an> first
2008-12-16 21:57 <cristi_an> rathere then read a book ?
2008-12-16 21:57 <cristi_an> in order to be familiar with python...
2008-12-16 21:57 <cristi_an> since you learn a language using it...not from books
2008-12-16 21:58 <cristi_an> what do you think...
2008-12-16 21:58 <cristi_an> ?
2008-12-16 21:58 <udono> cristi_an: that's the best way!
2008-12-16 21:58 <cristi_an> :)
2008-12-16 21:58 <udono> cristi_an: even better is you learn on university...
2008-12-16 21:59 <cristi_an> well there i had a lot of c++,java,lisp,prolog,assmbler :)
2008-12-16 22:00 <cristi_an> python is new for me.
2008-12-16 22:00 <cristi_an> but i start to like it...
2008-12-16 22:00 <cristi_an> aaa i forgot basic and pascal :)
2008-12-16 22:01 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: cool
2008-12-16 22:01 <cristi_an> that was highschool :)
2008-12-16 22:01 <X0d_of_N0d> udono: I've got to take care of a few things here, I'll talk to you later today or tomorrow
2008-12-16 22:02 <udono> X0d_of_N0d: best is via email or just hg push, cos Iam away soon.
2008-12-16 22:03 <X0d_of_N0d> udono: will do
2008-12-16 22:07 <cristi_an> who is giving me 3 minutes ?
2008-12-16 22:08 <cristi_an> (volunteer ?)
2008-12-16 22:08 <cristi_an>
2008-12-16 22:10 <cristi_an> np i ask tommorow then ....
2008-12-16 22:11 <udono> cristi_an: just ask and don't ask if you can ask
2008-12-16 22:11 <cristi_an> ok...i am courious...
2008-12-16 22:11 <cristi_an> in that paste i did...
2008-12-16 22:12 <cristi_an> about import
2008-12-16 22:12 <cristi_an> i see there two imports
2008-12-16 22:12 <cristi_an> import logging
2008-12-16 22:12 <cristi_an> and import then later vatnumber
2008-12-16 22:12 <cristi_an> that is executed like static in java ?
2008-12-16 22:13 <cristi_an> before the constructor ?
2008-12-16 22:13 <udono> cristi_an: yes
2008-12-16 22:13 <cristi_an> there is a try except ?
2008-12-16 22:13 <cristi_an> like a try catch in java
2008-12-16 22:13 <udono> cristi_an: yes
2008-12-16 22:13 <cristi_an> that vatnumber
2008-12-16 22:13 <cristi_an> is like a packege (in java ) module in python ?
2008-12-16 22:13 <udono> cristi_an: I don't know java, but it sounds good...
2008-12-16 22:14 <cristi_an> so that is imported....
2008-12-16 22:14 <udono> cristi_an: yes
2008-12-16 22:14 <cristi_an> but how do you know that it throws that exception...
2008-12-16 22:14 <udono> cristi_an: sudo easy_install vatnumber
2008-12-16 22:14 <cristi_an> in java for dummies ...the IDE show to you that
2008-12-16 22:14 <cristi_an> if is not runtimeexceptions
2008-12-16 22:15 <udono> cristi_an: you see a warning in log. The exeception is catched
2008-12-16 22:15 <bechamel> cristi_an: another suggestion: don't use so much lines to talk try to put all the question in one line
2008-12-16 22:15 <cristi_an> sorry for this...
2008-12-16 22:16 <udono> cristi_an: s/HAS_VATNUMBER and see where it changes
2008-12-16 22:16 <cristi_an> i know the logic there,but how do you know that is possible to get exceptions
2008-12-16 22:17 <cristi_an> that import error is throws by the vatnumber class or so
2008-12-16 22:18 <vengfulsquirrel> All python has is run time exceptions, so if its not documented you have to look at the code that will throw the exception to know the exception will be thrown.
2008-12-16 22:18 <bechamel> import are made at runtime, and the exception is thrown by the interpreter if it fails to find find the module
2008-12-16 22:18 <cristi_an> hmmm
2008-12-16 22:19 <cristi_an> all exception are runtime ?
2008-12-16 22:19 <udono> cristi_an: its just good implementation: you use other modules if they are there. If they are not mandatory for the functioning of your module, you catch the exeption and disable the depending parts: line 168
2008-12-16 22:20 <cristi_an> udono: i got it the logic behind this
2008-12-16 22:21 <cristi_an> but since i came from an environment where exceptions are of 2 types :runtime and catched
2008-12-16 22:22 <cristi_an> i wanted to know how do i know if a method ,import anything throws an exception.
2008-12-16 22:22 <cristi_an> a half answer i got from vengfulsquirrel , only from documents
2008-12-16 22:23 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah there is no pre-declared exceptions just like there are no pre-declared types. If I call function foo() it could raise ANY exception and I wouldn't know until I read the documentation and furthermore maybe even the source to find out it threw that.
2008-12-16 22:23 <cristi_an> ooops. that is not very nice and some surprises may arrise :)
2008-12-16 22:24 <cristi_an> vengfulsquirrel: you worked with java before ?
2008-12-16 22:24 <udono> cristi_an: there is no problem
2008-12-16 22:24 <cristi_an> but at least there are like ierachies of exceptions ? in order to catch one for many of them ?
2008-12-16 22:25 <vengfulsquirrel> cristi_an: Python has exception inheritance as well.
2008-12-16 22:25 <cristi_an> that is good.
2008-12-16 22:25 <udono> cristi_an: you can have exception classes
2008-12-16 22:25 <vengfulsquirrel> cristi_an: Have you tried going through the python tutorial it might speed things up?
2008-12-16 22:26 <cristi_an> i will do that then.
2008-12-16 22:26 <cristi_an> started but i assumed is better to dive into the code :)
2008-12-16 22:27 <cristi_an> i know,if you want to learn to swing ,you have to try deep waters :)
2008-12-16 22:27 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah well you have to keep going back to the docs and tutorial when you hit problems though otherwise its going to be some slow swimming.
2008-12-16 22:27 <cristi_an> but as you said...maybe is a good ideea to start with not so deep waters
2008-12-16 22:28 <udono> cristi_an: python tutorial is a must have, I think
2008-12-16 22:28 <cristi_an> sure np.
2008-12-16 22:28 <vengfulsquirrel> I've read through it at least once.
2008-12-16 22:28 <vengfulsquirrel> Has anyone else read parts of this Data Model Resource book by Silverston ?
2008-12-16 22:28 <cristi_an> that one from pyton org ?
2008-12-16 22:29 <vengfulsquirrel>
2008-12-16 22:30 <cristi_an> cu in few days...then, you will not get rid of me that easy :)
2008-12-16 22:30 <vengfulsquirrel> ha sounds good, good luck
2008-12-16 22:31 <cristi_an> thx
2008-12-16 22:31 <vengfulsquirrel> What is the average company size that was using openerp ?
2008-12-16 22:32 <udono> vengfulsquirrel: yes, me
2008-12-16 22:32 <udono> vengfulsquirrel: Who knows?
2008-12-16 22:34 <vengfulsquirrel> udono: Have you ever converted one of these logical schemas to an implementation? They seem ridiculously hand-wavy and verbose at times.
2008-12-16 22:53 <udono> vengfulsquirrel: only partially. Iam working on party with this models.
2008-12-16 22:53 <udono> vengfulsquirrel: some concepts are very generical...
2008-12-16 22:54 <udono> vengfulsquirrel: and most of the models needs a long time to understand afaik.
2008-12-16 22:54 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah I'll give to them that MRP in general seems very complicated but the schema's are just so far from an actual implementation its kind of annoying.
2008-12-16 22:55 <udono> vengfulsquirrel: do you have better schamas?
2008-12-16 22:55 <udono> s/schamas/schemas
2008-12-16 22:55 <vengfulsquirrel> Ha touché
2008-12-16 22:56 <udono> ?
2008-12-16 22:57 <vengfulsquirrel> No I don't
2008-12-16 22:58 <udono> vengfulsquirrel: dou you have a good actual implementation?
2008-12-16 23:00 <vengfulsquirrel> No I don't have a good implementation.
2008-12-16 23:04 <udono> vengfulsquirrel: my experience with the data model resource book is, that its good for partial concepts. Its even good for naming, because Iam not a native enklish speaker. I just isolated the useful structures into small modules. Some parts are not necessary for now, so I just let them aside. Unfortunately I cannot show you a working example. Because I hang in inheriting (coding) problems with the modules.

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