IRC logs of #tryton for Friday, 2009-01-23

chat.freenode.net #tryton log beginning Fri Jan 23 00:00:01 CET 2009
2009-01-23 00:08 <X0d_of_N0d> ACTION is back
2009-01-23 00:08 <vengfulsquirrel> Hey
2009-01-23 00:09 <vengfulsquirrel> I think the complexity of this proposal is almost at infinity, if only we could just add a few more features.
2009-01-23 00:11 <vengfulsquirrel> X0d_of_N0d: Don't read the features or anything yet, can you look at the table at the bottom of the document though.
2009-01-23 00:13 <vengfulsquirrel> *table's'
2009-01-23 00:30 -!- tekknokrat(n=gthieleb@dslb-088-074-161-004.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #tryton
2009-01-23 00:35 -!- tekknokrat(n=gthieleb@dslb-088-074-161-004.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #tryton
2009-01-23 00:46 <X0d_of_N0d> yeah
2009-01-23 00:48 <X0d_of_N0d> ok....
2009-01-23 00:48 -!- tekknokrat(n=gthieleb@dslb-088-074-161-004.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #tryton
2009-01-23 00:48 <X0d_of_N0d> so sub-slot is the quantity?
2009-01-23 00:49 <X0d_of_N0d> nm
2009-01-23 00:49 <vengfulsquirrel> X0d_of_N0d: No qty is the quantity, sub-slot is a group of local substitutes.
2009-01-23 00:50 <X0d_of_N0d> ok, what's the choose-min-no??
2009-01-23 00:50 <X0d_of_N0d> and what's global sub??
2009-01-23 00:51 <vengfulsquirrel> For a configurable bom, so you can choose 1(min) to 3(max) selections from a group of things.
2009-01-23 00:51 -!- tekknokrat(n=gthieleb@dslb-088-074-161-004.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #tryton
2009-01-23 00:51 <vengfulsquirrel> Global Sub means global substitutes could be used for that product if they exist.
2009-01-23 00:51 <vengfulsquirrel> Whereas local substitutes are defined as part of the BOM.
2009-01-23 00:51 <vengfulsquirrel> You can use both or you can turn global substitutes off to say restrict only one substitute.
2009-01-23 00:52 <X0d_of_N0d> what does "global substitudes" mean?
2009-01-23 00:52 <X0d_of_N0d> what is "global"?
2009-01-23 00:52 <X0d_of_N0d> how would that work?
2009-01-23 00:54 <vengfulsquirrel> You'd create a list of substitute products in the production tab of a product.
2009-01-23 00:54 <vengfulsquirrel> Those would be substitutes for that product in any bom that has global subs on.
2009-01-23 00:54 <vengfulsquirrel> You'd only use those if you couldn't assign inventory with the default product.
2009-01-23 00:55 <X0d_of_N0d> why?
2009-01-23 00:55 <vengfulsquirrel> Why, because the original material might be out of stock.
2009-01-23 00:55 <X0d_of_N0d> for arbitrary substitution?
2009-01-23 00:55 <X0d_of_N0d> ahhhh
2009-01-23 00:55 <vengfulsquirrel> Arbitrary?
2009-01-23 00:55 <vengfulsquirrel> Ha try to refrain from panicking.
2009-01-23 00:56 <X0d_of_N0d> like batteries? it doesn't matter if we use brand X or brand Y.
2009-01-23 00:56 <vengfulsquirrel> Yes
2009-01-23 00:56 <X0d_of_N0d> so whatever is in stock, use it
2009-01-23 00:56 <X0d_of_N0d> arbitrary substitution
2009-01-23 00:57 <vengfulsquirrel> Except its planned, you have to say on brand X that you can sub brand Y.
2009-01-23 00:57 <vengfulsquirrel> Whereas local substitution allows you to include maybe something a little weirder that you wouldn't want to be global.
2009-01-23 00:58 <vengfulsquirrel> Those features kept getting confused with configurable boms last time we talked.
2009-01-23 00:58 <X0d_of_N0d> ok, that makes sense
2009-01-23 00:59 <X0d_of_N0d> the user interface needs to be really clear and logical because this is a bit complex
2009-01-23 00:59 -!- tekknokrat(n=gthieleb@dslb-088-074-161-004.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #tryton
2009-01-23 00:59 <vengfulsquirrel> I think if you aren't using configurable boms the interface will be pretty obviuos.
2009-01-23 00:59 <vengfulsquirrel> If you are using configurable BOMs everything starts to get really complicated.
2009-01-23 01:00 <vengfulsquirrel> Do you think that min/max idea will be powerful enough for most applications?
2009-01-23 01:00 <X0d_of_N0d> this is sort of why I was suggesting that you make all boms the same, but have a bom-type flag
2009-01-23 01:00 <X0d_of_N0d> that way the ui would always be the same
2009-01-23 01:00 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah but people that don't use configurable boms shouldn't have to weave around it at every step of production.
2009-01-23 01:01 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: I do think it would be powerful enough
2009-01-23 01:01 -!- tekknokra1(n=gthieleb@dslb-088-074-156-219.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #tryton
2009-01-23 01:01 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: they wouldn't even notice it
2009-01-23 01:01 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: on all the different kinds of boms you'd just add parts
2009-01-23 01:01 <vengfulsquirrel> Well the way I proposed generating boms doesn't make sense with regular boms.
2009-01-23 01:02 <X0d_of_N0d> on configurable boms you'd just add parts, but those parts would be choices
2009-01-23 01:03 <X0d_of_N0d> hum...
2009-01-23 01:03 <vengfulsquirrel> I was thinking we actually need three interfaces: Configurable BOM Designer, Configurable BOM Configurator, Configured Product Finder.
2009-01-23 01:03 <vengfulsquirrel> Or at least those are the three use cases in my mind.
2009-01-23 01:04 <X0d_of_N0d> what would be the difference between a configurable bom designer and configurable bom configurator?
2009-01-23 01:04 <vengfulsquirrel> The designer would like you create the configurable bom, adding products and groups them and setting the min/max choices.
2009-01-23 01:05 <X0d_of_N0d> and the configurator lets you configure it, ok cool
2009-01-23 01:05 <vengfulsquirrel> Then once the bom became valid you could use it to generate products and their boms by actually going and making choices.
2009-01-23 01:05 <X0d_of_N0d> so the database structure would be the same for all boms?
2009-01-23 01:06 <vengfulsquirrel> But then when making a sale or anywhere you need to select a product you don't want to go leafing through all the configurations manually.
2009-01-23 01:06 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah sorry so this is going to sound weird but there are actually kind of 3 boms, Configurable BOMs(store the possible configurations), Configured BOMs(you made choices), Regular BOMs(Not configured)
2009-01-23 01:07 <vengfulsquirrel> The Configured BOMs and Regular BOMs would share the same database structure.
2009-01-23 01:08 <vengfulsquirrel> The configurable boms would be more complicated and probably wouldn't share the same structure
2009-01-23 01:10 <vengfulsquirrel> That's just what I was thinking, what do you think ?
2009-01-23 01:10 <X0d_of_N0d> I'll have to think about that. I believe that could work, I just need to think about if that's the best way to do it.
2009-01-23 01:11 <X0d_of_N0d> what's the difference between the choice slot and sub-slot?
2009-01-23 01:11 <X0d_of_N0d> nm, I see it
2009-01-23 01:12 <X0d_of_N0d> hum
2009-01-23 01:13 <X0d_of_N0d> I think the sub stuff needs to be thought about *very* carefully
2009-01-23 01:13 <X0d_of_N0d> for example, 2 sticks of memory could be substituted but only in a set of 2
2009-01-23 01:13 <X0d_of_N0d> 1 of one type, and 1 of the other would be horrible
2009-01-23 01:14 <X0d_of_N0d> I think substitution should be scrapped for milestone 1, we can look at it again later on
2009-01-23 01:15 <X0d_of_N0d> qty and min/max qty could be used for the same thing... if we're creative about how it's done
2009-01-23 01:16 <vengfulsquirrel> Hmm yeah not really though
2009-01-23 01:16 <vengfulsquirrel> Or well not at all for the way I've planned the production order process.
2009-01-23 01:17 <X0d_of_N0d> yeah, really. if max-qty=min-qty then that's the same as qty
2009-01-23 01:17 <X0d_of_N0d> just use a checkbox in the ui to toggle variable qty
2009-01-23 01:17 <vengfulsquirrel> I guess you could keep flipping the boms until you could satisfy the inventory
2009-01-23 01:17 <vengfulsquirrel> oh wait
2009-01-23 01:17 <vengfulsquirrel> oh man yeah i didn't even imagine that
2009-01-23 01:17 <vengfulsquirrel> that's more like how many from these bom lines can you choose
2009-01-23 01:18 <vengfulsquirrel> i didn't even think about that and qty being similar
2009-01-23 01:18 <vengfulsquirrel> I think that would be too confusing and would be abusing its purpose.
2009-01-23 01:18 <X0d_of_N0d> :)
2009-01-23 01:19 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah but your point earlier is a problem, ie. splitting assignments between substitutes.
2009-01-23 01:19 <vengfulsquirrel> I guess we'll just never do that.
2009-01-23 01:19 <X0d_of_N0d> variable qty would be confusing?
2009-01-23 01:19 <X0d_of_N0d> just because we don't do it now doesn't mean we won't ever do it
2009-01-23 01:20 <X0d_of_N0d> the more official way to do it is to use bom revs
2009-01-23 01:20 <vengfulsquirrel> No picking from 15 boms depending on how many of something you wanted to make.
2009-01-23 01:20 <X0d_of_N0d> when you run out of product X then the old bom expires and the new one using product Y goes into effect
2009-01-23 01:21 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: picking from 15 boms??
2009-01-23 01:22 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah I think that max/min/= thing just totally confused me. All quantities are fixed in a regular BOM.
2009-01-23 01:22 <X0d_of_N0d> actually, if we went with the db structure I suggested we could include product substitution AND take care of the problem with splitting by adding a new bom type
2009-01-23 01:22 <vengfulsquirrel> Subsitutions will be done between fixed quantities.
2009-01-23 01:24 <vengfulsquirrel> The values choose-min-no, choose-max-no are the minimum number of bom lines that must be selected during configuration whereas choose-max-no is the maximum number of bom lines that must be selected during configuration.
2009-01-23 01:24 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: I thought it was qty
2009-01-23 01:25 <X0d_of_N0d> what determines variable qty?
2009-01-23 01:25 <vengfulsquirrel> I think that's a new idea I had never thought of before, can you give me a use-case.
2009-01-23 01:26 <X0d_of_N0d> ram, you can have 1 1gb stick, or two
2009-01-23 01:26 <X0d_of_N0d> same with the HD
2009-01-23 01:26 <X0d_of_N0d> or monitors
2009-01-23 01:26 <X0d_of_N0d> or you could have 4 1gb sticks
2009-01-23 01:27 <X0d_of_N0d> whatever
2009-01-23 01:29 <vengfulsquirrel> oh right yeah ha good thing you're here, i think you mentioned this before and we mentioned making each quantity a different configuration but other than that i totally overlooked that problem
2009-01-23 01:32 <X0d_of_N0d> actually using your structure you could just put in the same prodcut multiple times with different qtys
2009-01-23 01:32 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah that's what I meant, I think you had mentioned that before.
2009-01-23 01:32 <vengfulsquirrel> Do you think that would be flexible enough though?
2009-01-23 01:32 <vengfulsquirrel> Each one of those will be a seperate product.
2009-01-23 01:33 <X0d_of_N0d> yeah, that's the way it should be
2009-01-23 01:33 <vengfulsquirrel> So each different qty of memory is a different product.
2009-01-23 01:34 <vengfulsquirrel> Okay great yeah so there is not variable quantity beyond making a line for each qty possible.
2009-01-23 01:34 <X0d_of_N0d> yeah
2009-01-23 01:34 <X0d_of_N0d> I think that's flexable enough for right now
2009-01-23 01:35 <X0d_of_N0d> I think substition should be handled through a different interface
2009-01-23 01:36 <X0d_of_N0d> I'd say we could have a substition bom that just has a list of parts that are all the same
2009-01-23 01:36 <vengfulsquirrel> Well I think its a BOM topic because the bom needs to be approved and if engineering says nothing is substitutable.. then nothing should be substutuable.
2009-01-23 01:36 <X0d_of_N0d> and when you want to allow substition you use that, when you don't use use the exact product
2009-01-23 01:36 <X0d_of_N0d> perhaps?
2009-01-23 01:37 <X0d_of_N0d> right, so you create a new item that's metaitem for all the subsitutable items
2009-01-23 01:37 <X0d_of_N0d> when you want to subsitute the bom contains the metaitem, where you don't the bom contains the specific part number
2009-01-23 01:38 <X0d_of_N0d> you could have a "metaproduct" bom
2009-01-23 01:39 <vengfulsquirrel> Hmm yeah I was thinking it will be easier to put that in the base bom since its just going to be a simple list of substitutes.
2009-01-23 01:39 <vengfulsquirrel> I think its not going to be too complex no matter where it is
2009-01-23 01:39 <vengfulsquirrel> the configuration stuff is still the hard part
2009-01-23 01:39 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: right
2009-01-23 01:39 <vengfulsquirrel> well actually there is a caveat to all this
2009-01-23 01:39 <vengfulsquirrel> multiple outputs
2009-01-23 01:39 <X0d_of_N0d> well, if the configuration was broken up into smaller parts it could be stored in the same place
2009-01-23 01:39 <vengfulsquirrel> that part I havn't quite figured out
2009-01-23 01:40 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: multiple outputs is increidbly difficult
2009-01-23 01:40 <X0d_of_N0d> I haven't really figured it out yet....
2009-01-23 01:40 <vengfulsquirrel> Well it all works except these problems:
2009-01-23 01:41 <vengfulsquirrel> 1. How do we add/remove outputs based on selected configuration, 2. How de we add/remove outputs based on substitutes
2009-01-23 01:41 <vengfulsquirrel> I think with a regular bom with no config. or sub. the multiple outputs will work fine.
2009-01-23 01:41 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: right, your output would usually be determined based on your product...
2009-01-23 01:44 <X0d_of_N0d> products could have a list of byproducts under production
2009-01-23 01:44 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah well there was talk about a larger seperation between a product and its many boms.
2009-01-23 01:44 <X0d_of_N0d> if you create a work order for product, you'd also be producting all of the items in "byproduct"
2009-01-23 01:45 <vengfulsquirrel> I think the outputs should be with the BOM and not with the product.
2009-01-23 01:45 <X0d_of_N0d> a product can only have one bom
2009-01-23 01:45 <X0d_of_N0d> a single bom can be for many products
2009-01-23 01:45 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah okay so that was disputed
2009-01-23 01:45 <X0d_of_N0d> let me review that
2009-01-23 01:46 <vengfulsquirrel> the wood cutting example given in that email is one exmaple
2009-01-23 01:46 <vengfulsquirrel> The idea was that you would select the product's bom if different from the default at the start of the production order cycle.
2009-01-23 01:46 <X0d_of_N0d> the board making two boards?
2009-01-23 01:46 <vengfulsquirrel> Yes
2009-01-23 01:47 <X0d_of_N0d> the single bom would produce both boards, two products one bom
2009-01-23 01:48 <vengfulsquirrel> Except you can make that board from multiple other boards
2009-01-23 01:48 <vengfulsquirrel> Like cut a 8 into 2/6 or a 12 into 2/10
2009-01-23 01:48 <vengfulsquirrel> that's a crappy example but that's the point
2009-01-23 01:48 <X0d_of_N0d> hum
2009-01-23 01:48 <vengfulsquirrel> where you have multiple output products and multiple boms
2009-01-23 01:48 <X0d_of_N0d> which email was that?
2009-01-23 01:49 <X0d_of_N0d> yeah
2009-01-23 01:49 <vengfulsquirrel> well your boss mentioned it as a breeder bom and cedk and I talked about it in chat, hold on let me find it
2009-01-23 01:49 <X0d_of_N0d> oh yeah, ok
2009-01-23 01:50 <vengfulsquirrel> http://www.tryton.org/~irclog/2009-01-20.log.html
2009-01-23 01:51 <vengfulsquirrel> Is the css/formatting all f'ed up on your browser too ?
2009-01-23 01:52 <X0d_of_N0d> not really, looks ok to me
2009-01-23 01:52 <X0d_of_N0d> you're using ff?
2009-01-23 01:52 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah
2009-01-23 01:53 <X0d_of_N0d> did you just upgrade?
2009-01-23 01:53 <vengfulsquirrel> no the opposite i'm using 2.0.17 i think
2009-01-23 01:53 <vengfulsquirrel> i'm also riding a dinosaur and wielding a club
2009-01-23 01:54 <X0d_of_N0d> 3.0.5
2009-01-23 01:54 <X0d_of_N0d> lol
2009-01-23 01:54 <X0d_of_N0d> so the problem with multiple boms to a product is that products are the key
2009-01-23 01:55 <X0d_of_N0d> products need to return one bom so manufacturing knows how to build the product
2009-01-23 01:55 <vengfulsquirrel> yeah well there will be a sequence applied to the possible boms
2009-01-23 01:55 <X0d_of_N0d> if the product returns multiple boms then how do you determine which bom is the correct one?
2009-01-23 01:55 <vengfulsquirrel> and the first one will be default
2009-01-23 01:55 <vengfulsquirrel> manufacturing can select a different one at the start of production if for some reason its necessary
2009-01-23 01:57 <X0d_of_N0d> it's generally the case that manufacturing needs to be told pretty explicitly exactly what to do
2009-01-23 01:58 <X0d_of_N0d> I dunno...that might work
2009-01-23 02:00 <X0d_of_N0d> I guess the different boms could be chosen based on avaliable materials...
2009-01-23 02:01 <X0d_of_N0d> and if the materials are different from the default it would complain
2009-01-23 02:01 <vengfulsquirrel> yeah i had thought of it differently
2009-01-23 02:02 <vengfulsquirrel> and this is still fresh out of my brain
2009-01-23 02:02 <vengfulsquirrel> but check out this diagram
2009-01-23 02:02 <vengfulsquirrel> http://laspilitas.com/s/images/production-order-states.png
2009-01-23 02:07 <X0d_of_N0d> substitute materials and allocate resources should take place at the same time
2009-01-23 02:09 <vengfulsquirrel> except it can't try to allocate the materials if it doesn't know what to allocate
2009-01-23 02:09 <vengfulsquirrel> Sorry green is the User and Blue is the system
2009-01-23 02:09 <vengfulsquirrel> Forgot to label those
2009-01-23 02:09 <vengfulsquirrel> The idea is you would keep trying to assign with different subsitutes until it worked or you forced it
2009-01-23 02:10 <vengfulsquirrel> Similar to assign's to a customer packing
2009-01-23 02:10 <X0d_of_N0d> but we can't substitute materials then allocate because we might try to allocate materials we don't have, and that's the point of substitution
2009-01-23 02:10 <vengfulsquirrel> yeah well it won't work, that's what i'm saying
2009-01-23 02:11 <vengfulsquirrel> you'd try to allocate and it would say it can't because you don't have enough X
2009-01-23 02:11 <vengfulsquirrel> so then you'd try to substitute X with Y
2009-01-23 02:11 <vengfulsquirrel> and you'd run the allocation again
2009-01-23 02:12 <X0d_of_N0d> it should just check what you do have and allocate that
2009-01-23 02:12 <vengfulsquirrel> if you don't have the materials but you think you do anyways you can force the allocation, but that would be frowned upon just like forcing the assignment of resources to an sale when you don't have the resources
2009-01-23 02:12 <vengfulsquirrel> *resources=products
2009-01-23 02:15 <X0d_of_N0d> I'm not saying you should allocate, then substitute. I'm saying they should both be done in the same step
2009-01-23 02:15 <X0d_of_N0d> like...
2009-01-23 02:15 <X0d_of_N0d> 1) run through the substition list until you find enough in inventory
2009-01-23 02:15 <X0d_of_N0d> 2) allocate what you have enough of
2009-01-23 02:16 <vengfulsquirrel> you mean automatically by the system?
2009-01-23 02:16 <vengfulsquirrel> I guess that should be an option
2009-01-23 02:16 <X0d_of_N0d> and that stuff needs to be virtually allocated during "waiting"...
2009-01-23 02:17 <X0d_of_N0d> I don't see how it makes sense to make a person do what a computer should
2009-01-23 02:17 <X0d_of_N0d> it should just inform you "hey, there isn't enough of this so I used that"
2009-01-23 02:17 <vengfulsquirrel> Well some people might not want to substitute and would rather wait
2009-01-23 02:18 <X0d_of_N0d> also everyhting needs to be virtually allocated during the waiting stage
2009-01-23 02:18 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah I gotta re-read up on the virtual allocation
2009-01-23 02:18 <X0d_of_N0d> otherwise you could sched one thing and it would be waiting, then sched another thing for the same time that would use the same resources
2009-01-23 02:18 <vengfulsquirrel> but that means automatically substituting
2009-01-23 02:18 <X0d_of_N0d> it's *vital*
2009-01-23 02:19 <vengfulsquirrel> well kind of
2009-01-23 02:19 <vengfulsquirrel> but maybe you don't want unsatisfied production orders to be plugging up your inventory when other orders can be fulfilled
2009-01-23 02:19 <X0d_of_N0d> it seems like that would be a behavior you'd want to customize
2009-01-23 02:19 <vengfulsquirrel> i think maybe a checkbox would be good
2009-01-23 02:19 <vengfulsquirrel> Automatically Substitute
2009-01-23 02:20 <X0d_of_N0d> yeah
2009-01-23 02:20 <vengfulsquirrel> but the virtual allocation probably does need to be worked out
2009-01-23 02:20 <X0d_of_N0d> that should be per "subsitution bom" or whatever
2009-01-23 02:20 <vengfulsquirrel> i was thinking assigned meant virtually allocated though
2009-01-23 02:20 <X0d_of_N0d> it seems to me that would be the right place
2009-01-23 02:21 <vengfulsquirrel> so you could go from draft to waiting
2009-01-23 02:21 <vengfulsquirrel> then try to assign everything automatically
2009-01-23 02:21 <vengfulsquirrel> and that would take you to assigned if successful
2009-01-23 02:21 <vengfulsquirrel> otherwise you'd just be stuck in waiting with nothing assigned
2009-01-23 02:21 <vengfulsquirrel> if you wanted to hold some of the materials you had
2009-01-23 02:21 <vengfulsquirrel> you'd have to force it
2009-01-23 02:22 <X0d_of_N0d> ok, so when you create the bom it becomes a draft...
2009-01-23 02:22 <X0d_of_N0d> then what makes it "waiting"
2009-01-23 02:22 <vengfulsquirrel> you finalize your bom selection
2009-01-23 02:22 <X0d_of_N0d> errmm s/bom/po/
2009-01-23 02:22 <vengfulsquirrel> we can't have the bom selection editable if we are cranking out moves against it
2009-01-23 02:22 <X0d_of_N0d> ok
2009-01-23 02:22 <vengfulsquirrel> so i tihnk for the most part
2009-01-23 02:22 <vengfulsquirrel> waiting will be less than 30 seconds of waiting
2009-01-23 02:23 <vengfulsquirrel> like you will just click through it
2009-01-23 02:23 <vengfulsquirrel> it really only is needed if you aren't automatically using subs
2009-01-23 02:23 <vengfulsquirrel> or allocation fails
2009-01-23 02:23 <X0d_of_N0d> well then it's just part of draft
2009-01-23 02:23 <vengfulsquirrel> except you can change the bom in the draft state
2009-01-23 02:24 <X0d_of_N0d> ahh
2009-01-23 02:24 <vengfulsquirrel> ie. choose a different bom
2009-01-23 02:24 <vengfulsquirrel> not modify the actual bom
2009-01-23 02:24 <vengfulsquirrel> if that makes sense
2009-01-23 02:25 <X0d_of_N0d> once the bom is created you can't modify it
2009-01-23 02:25 <X0d_of_N0d> you have to rev it
2009-01-23 02:26 <vengfulsquirrel> yeah
2009-01-23 02:26 <vengfulsquirrel> and once you go from draft to waiting you are fixed on a bom and a revision of that bom
2009-01-23 02:27 <X0d_of_N0d> but shouldn't you be fixed on a bom and revision when you submit the draft?
2009-01-23 02:27 <X0d_of_N0d> hum...
2009-01-23 02:27 <X0d_of_N0d> I guess not
2009-01-23 02:28 <vengfulsquirrel> yeah because supposedly people will want to select a different bom in the draft state
2009-01-23 02:28 <X0d_of_N0d> right
2009-01-23 02:28 <X0d_of_N0d> ok, so what is the difference between waiting and assigned?
2009-01-23 02:29 <X0d_of_N0d> you're in draft, you select the bom and rev....
2009-01-23 02:29 <vengfulsquirrel> Maybe waiting isn't the best word
2009-01-23 02:30 <vengfulsquirrel> but you go to waiting, and the exploded bom is there and you can either
2009-01-23 02:30 <vengfulsquirrel> 1. check the automatic substitute box and click Assign
2009-01-23 02:30 <vengfulsquirrel> or 2. uncheck the automatic substute box and go through the exploded bom and manually select substitutes and then click Assign
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2009-01-23 02:31 <vengfulsquirrel> if 1 or 2 fail you are stuck in Waiting
2009-01-23 02:31 <X0d_of_N0d> it seems like that's just a step in the process to assigning it
2009-01-23 02:31 <X0d_of_N0d> not actually a state in and of itself
2009-01-23 02:32 <X0d_of_N0d> it seems like it should just fall back to draft if you can't assign it
2009-01-23 02:36 <X0d_of_N0d> I don't think the bom and rev field should actually be locked until you can actually allocate materials...that's all I'm saying
2009-01-23 02:42 <vengfulsquirrel> hey sorry i got a phone call
2009-01-23 02:42 <X0d_of_N0d> ok
2009-01-23 02:42 <X0d_of_N0d> I gotta head out in a bit, I just wanted to make a few notes....
2009-01-23 02:42 <X0d_of_N0d> running -> stopped
2009-01-23 02:43 <X0d_of_N0d> that would change the state of the workcenter... for the first milestone it doesn't do anything
2009-01-23 02:43 <X0d_of_N0d> just a placeholder
2009-01-23 02:43 <X0d_of_N0d> stopped -> unfinished
2009-01-23 02:43 <X0d_of_N0d> I think that should actually be stopped -> canceled
2009-01-23 02:43 <X0d_of_N0d> basically the same
2009-01-23 02:43 <vengfulsquirrel> okay yeah I have except all the deallocation
2009-01-23 02:44 <X0d_of_N0d> moves shouldn't actually be done, moves should be drafted and then people manually do moves
2009-01-23 02:44 <vengfulsquirrel> yeah but they need to be checked if they are done
2009-01-23 02:44 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: right, I meant it should be the same as what you wrote
2009-01-23 02:44 <vengfulsquirrel> like people need to know that stuff is finished and needs to be restocked
2009-01-23 02:45 <vengfulsquirrel> and then they do it and then change the state to Done
2009-01-23 02:46 <X0d_of_N0d> oh yeah, ok... the blue under assigned is correct but the green, I think, should say "create draft move"
2009-01-23 02:46 <vengfulsquirrel> I guess I was trying to parallel the finished logic with the unfinished logic since all the same stuff needs to happen pretty much except there could be potentially a ton more outputs for unfinished orders.
2009-01-23 02:46 <X0d_of_N0d> to be more clear
2009-01-23 02:47 <vengfulsquirrel> which green?
2009-01-23 02:47 <X0d_of_N0d> vengfulsquirrel: yeah, that does make sense
2009-01-23 02:47 <X0d_of_N0d> the green text next to assigned says "do moves to input" but the blue under says "check all moves to input are done"
2009-01-23 02:48 <X0d_of_N0d> so I think the green text should say "create draft move to input"
2009-01-23 02:48 <X0d_of_N0d> just to make it more clear
2009-01-23 02:48 <vengfulsquirrel> The blue describes the arrow of what the system does between the two states, the green describes what can be done when you are in a state.
2009-01-23 02:49 <vengfulsquirrel> I mean check as in if they aren't done you can't start running the production.
2009-01-23 02:49 <vengfulsquirrel> Maybe that's a little heavy handed.
2009-01-23 02:50 <X0d_of_N0d> I think that the way you did everything is pretty clear
2009-01-23 02:50 <X0d_of_N0d> I'm easily able to follow what blue and green means
2009-01-23 02:51 <X0d_of_N0d> hum
2009-01-23 02:51 <X0d_of_N0d> well I need to head out, you going to be around tomorrow?
2009-01-23 02:51 <vengfulsquirrel> Yes
2009-01-23 02:52 <vengfulsquirrel> We can finish ironing everything out then, maybe I'll have some suggestions for handling multiple outputs and configurable boms by then.
2009-01-23 02:52 <X0d_of_N0d> ok, it looks pretty good over all... yeah, we'll finish later
2009-01-23 02:52 <X0d_of_N0d> cool
2009-01-23 02:52 <X0d_of_N0d> see you then
2009-01-23 02:53 <vengfulsquirrel> adios
2009-01-23 04:20 <CIA-51> tryton: vengfulsquirrel * r427 /wiki/TrytonMRPIntegration.wiki: Added state transition diagram for production orders. Text still needs to updated to reflect the newest design decisions.
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2009-01-23 09:08 <vengfulsquirrel> When something like an on_change function returns values what uses those?
2009-01-23 09:09 <saxa> grep for the variable ?
2009-01-23 09:12 <Timitos> vengfulsquirrel: with an on_change function you can change the values of some other fields for example. like when you change field product in invoice line then the field unit is filled by the function on_change_product
2009-01-23 09:13 <Timitos> vengfulsquirrel: by the way. your plan for MRP looks good
2009-01-23 09:14 <vengfulsquirrel> Timitos: Yeah I'm not working on that now, but yeah the text needs a lot of updating and there are a lot of loose ends, did you look at the state diagram?
2009-01-23 09:14 <vengfulsquirrel> Hmm, okay yeah I think I kind of understand why its called but it returns a dictionary of values... to who are those returned ?
2009-01-23 09:15 <vengfulsquirrel> I greped for the call and I havne't seen those calls anywhere so I'm assuming its all done at run time using strings.
2009-01-23 09:16 <vengfulsquirrel> Timitos: http://laspilitas.com/s/images/production-order-states.png Do you work with anyone in manufacturing ?
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2009-01-23 09:18 <Timitos> vengfulsquirrel: sorry. i don´t know to who those values are returned. sorry. for me in the moment it is enough that is works ;-)
2009-01-23 09:18 <Timitos> vengfulsquirrel: no in the moment i do not work with anyone in manufacturing. i also need to update my knowledge for manufacturing.
2009-01-23 09:19 <Timitos> but what i read in the wiki sounds good for me.
2009-01-23 09:20 <Timitos> you should consider the possibility to implement batch tracing for later
2009-01-23 09:24 <vengfulsquirrel> Timitos: Thanks. With regard to the batch tracking, yeah that is something I myself need to read up on, I think the basic stock system would need an extension because that kind of granularity does not exist. It is definitely important for certain industries though.
2009-01-23 09:24 <Timitos> vengfulsquirrel: this is the changeset in which cedk added the on_change_with functionality. perhaps this can help you to find some more informationen about on_change too http://hg.tryton.org/hgwebdir.cgi/trytond/rev/56493f850cd9
2009-01-23 09:25 <Timitos> yes. batch tracing is very important for cosmetics and food industry
2009-01-23 09:26 <Timitos> and this is how on_change_with is handled by the client http://hg.tryton.org/hgwebdir.cgi/tryton/rev/885d4a90fcea
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2009-01-23 10:06 <vengfulsquirrel> Timitos: Thanks, okay I think I have a better handle on it now, I also didn't notice there is a bit in the docs about it.
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2009-01-23 11:09 <Gedd> cedk, bechamel: vous avez testé la dernière version? ca vous convient?
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2009-01-23 11:21 <cedk> Gedd: c'est bertrand qui s'occupait du rapport, mais je pense que c'était bon pour lui
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2009-01-23 18:48 <carlos> Hi
2009-01-23 18:54 <carlos> Timitos: hi, around ?
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2009-01-23 19:24 <carlos> cedk: hi
2009-01-23 19:24 <carlos> cedk: Is there a way to update a chart of accounts already created in Tryton?
2009-01-23 19:24 <carlos> say that I find a bug in the chart of accounts xml file and I want to 'fix' the one already created with the old version
2009-01-23 19:25 <carlos> I fix the xml and update the module, what else would I need to do?
2009-01-23 19:26 <cedk> carlos: not for now
2009-01-23 19:27 <carlos> so I would need to do manual sql surgery, right?
2009-01-23 19:30 <carlos> ok, next question. Tryton has 'income statement' and 'Balance sheet', but I have another report which consist in an income statement + extra information
2009-01-23 19:30 <carlos> which name is translated as 'Changes in net assets'
2009-01-23 19:31 <carlos> and I don't know how to do it, just create it as the income statement and Balance sheet, but without the "<field name='balance_sheet' eval='True'/>" or <field name='income_statement' eval='True'/>
2009-01-23 19:31 <carlos> ?
2009-01-23 19:45 <cedk> carlos: perhaps, I don't know
2009-01-23 19:56 <carlos> cedk: who may know it?
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2009-01-23 20:16 <cedk> carlos: you must give more explaination about this report
2009-01-23 20:19 <carlos> from what I know, it looks like an extension of the income statement but not all companies need that part, thus, the documentation has it as a third report
2009-01-23 20:19 <cedk> carlos: you can make like other report and add a new field for it
2009-01-23 20:20 <carlos> just like balance_sheet and income_statement?
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2009-01-23 20:20 <cedk> carlos: yes
2009-01-23 20:21 <carlos> ok, I will take note of that and try to get more information from such report to be 100% sure that's the right way to do it.
2009-01-23 20:21 <carlos> cedk: thanks
2009-01-23 20:58 <Timitos> carlos: hi. did you want to ask me what you asked cedk later? or do you want to ask me something other?
2009-01-23 20:58 <carlos> Timitos: what I asked to cedk
2009-01-23 20:58 <Timitos> ok.
2009-01-23 20:58 <carlos> Timitos: I already finished adding all accounts
2009-01-23 20:59 <carlos> however, something is broken when I try to use that chart of accounts, so I'm debugging it right now (taxes are missing)
2009-01-23 20:59 <Timitos> carlos: great. your summary for project looks good. i am collecting some thoughts about that but i have many things to do in the moment
2009-01-23 21:00 <Timitos> carlos: i took a while for me to get my chart running too.
2009-01-23 21:01 <carlos> Timitos: talking about that... Do you know Jira?
2009-01-23 21:01 <Timitos> carlos: no
2009-01-23 21:01 <carlos> Timitos: well, the problem seems like a missing field in one of the accounts, but Tryton doesn't tell me which one
2009-01-23 21:02 <carlos> so I hope to get it working this weekend :-P I want to open 2009 with Tryton
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2009-01-23 21:02 <Timitos> carlos: i will take a short look on your chart
2009-01-23 21:02 <carlos> Timitos: Jira is something like bugzilla and roundup
2009-01-23 21:03 <carlos> Timitos: the guys in the university want to integrate Jira (or something like it) in the Project management development
2009-01-23 21:03 <carlos> and is the first time I know about Jira, so I was just checking whether you had some more information about it :-)
2009-01-23 21:03 <Timitos> carlos: :-) sorry. no
2009-01-23 21:04 <carlos> Timitos: cool, latest version of my chart of accounts is already on my website. Thanks
2009-01-23 21:04 <carlos> Timitos: ok, no problem
2009-01-23 21:11 <carlos> Timitos: the error I'm getting is 'The field "Type" on "Account" is required.'
2009-01-23 21:11 <Timitos> carlos: i get this too.
2009-01-23 21:12 <carlos> and the problem is with the account id pgc_1341
2009-01-23 21:12 <Timitos> i know :-)
2009-01-23 21:12 <carlos> which is the first one using the 'tlost' type
2009-01-23 21:12 <Timitos> but i don´t understand
2009-01-23 21:12 <carlos> how did you get it?
2009-01-23 21:12 <Timitos> i put a print statement in the copy function of account.py
2009-01-23 21:12 <carlos> it took me a while to get such information with pdb... so maybe Tryton is easier to debug than I'm aware of :-P
2009-01-23 21:12 <carlos> ok
2009-01-23 21:12 <carlos> just that you have better knowledge of the system
2009-01-23 21:13 <carlos> :-D
2009-01-23 21:13 <Timitos> carlos: there is maybe a bug. but i am not sure yet
2009-01-23 21:14 <carlos> Timitos: I added such type to 'mark' the accounts that for some reason, are not part of the income_statement nor the balance_sheet
2009-01-23 21:14 <carlos> s/'mark'/tag/
2009-01-23 21:15 <carlos> so I know the ones I need to check with my tax advisor next week
2009-01-23 21:15 <Timitos> carlos: if they are not part of income statement or balance sheet i would leave them out. ok or you check this.
2009-01-23 21:16 <carlos> leave them out == without type or just remove them from the chart of accounts?
2009-01-23 21:19 <Timitos> carlos: remove them from the chart of accounts
2009-01-23 21:20 <carlos> ok, I'm going to comment them out
2009-01-23 21:20 <Timitos> carlos: this is better. so the danger for doing mistakes with these accounts is smaller
2009-01-23 21:20 <carlos> well, those accounts should be part of any of those reports
2009-01-23 21:20 <carlos> but seems like the official documentation is not 100% complete
2009-01-23 21:22 <Timitos> carlos: you need to search why the account has the value 'False' for type. this is the value when copying the templates to an chart. but in the xml it has type 'tlost'. something happens there when the templates are read out i think. but i am not sure. your xml seems to be correct. it happens later.
2009-01-23 21:23 <carlos> so that error seems to be a bug in Tryton?
2009-01-23 21:24 <carlos> something that should be detected when the xml is read
2009-01-23 21:24 <Timitos> carlos: yes it seems to be a bug in Tryton. your xml is read correctly into account.account.template. the error happens when the templates are copied to account.account
2009-01-23 21:25 <Timitos> carlos: but i need to leave now. my honey needs my attention ;-)
2009-01-23 21:25 <carlos> Actually, I got the same error when I activated the module in a fresh tryton db
2009-01-23 21:25 <carlos> Timitos: enjoy!
2009-01-23 21:25 <carlos> Timitos: thanks for your input
2009-01-23 21:26 <Timitos> carlos: thx. you are welcome
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2009-01-23 22:07 <X0d_of_N0d`> how does the separator tag work?
2009-01-23 22:08 <X0d_of_N0d`> i should just be able to add <separator string="asdf" name="qwerty"/> right?
2009-01-23 22:10 <cedk> X0d_of_N0d`: in the dev branch, you must also add an id
2009-01-23 22:11 <cedk> X0d_of_N0d`: or a name
2009-01-23 22:11 <X0d_of_N0d`> ok, thanks
2009-01-23 22:11 <cedk> X0d_of_N0d`: but put a name and a string is not usefull
2009-01-23 22:12 <cedk> X0d_of_N0d: because it will display the string from the field defined in name
2009-01-23 22:12 <X0d_of_N0d> I was kind of under the understanding that a separator would be like an hr
2009-01-23 22:12 <X0d_of_N0d> oh
2009-01-23 22:12 <X0d_of_N0d> <hpaned>=<hr> ??
2009-01-23 22:14 <cedk> X0d_of_N0d: yes it is like a hr
2009-01-23 22:14 <X0d_of_N0d> cedk: cool, thanks for all the help
2009-01-23 22:15 <X0d_of_N0d> ACTION heads off to lunch
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2009-01-23 23:52 <CIA-8> tryton: C?dric Krier <ced@b2ck.com> default * 1480:a85a277af20a trytond/trytond/osv/orm.py: Don't order by selection translated if order_field is not None
2009-01-23 23:52 <CIA-8> tryton: C?dric Krier <ced@b2ck.com> default * 1481:1e3998fb9018 trytond/trytond/res/request.py: Order request by priority must be on internal value

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