IRC logs of #tryton for Sunday, 2010-02-21 #tryton log beginning Sun Feb 21 00:00:02 CET 2010
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2010-02-21 22:30 <Payne> hi , anyone home. I just became aware of tryton and I had a question about possibly using tryton for a Point of sale project
2010-02-21 22:44 <petrus> Payne: what do you exactly mean by "point of sale project"?
2010-02-21 22:44 <Payne> hi
2010-02-21 22:44 <Payne> I have a project
2010-02-21 22:44 <Payne> in an industrial setting
2010-02-21 22:45 <Payne> that they need a point of sale terminal
2010-02-21 22:45 <Payne> that backends to the erp system
2010-02-21 22:45 <Payne> to input some data
2010-02-21 22:45 <Payne> to update parts usage at a remte site
2010-02-21 22:45 <Payne> remote site
2010-02-21 22:46 <Payne> tryton looks as a good framework to build the solution
2010-02-21 22:46 <Payne> however
2010-02-21 22:46 <Payne> I cannot assume continuous network access between the client and server
2010-02-21 22:47 <Payne> thus some kind of disconnected mode would be necessary
2010-02-21 22:48 <Payne> does that clarify things?
2010-02-21 22:48 <petrus> Payne: yes
2010-02-21 22:49 <Payne> I think a disconnected mode would be generally useful as well
2010-02-21 22:49 <Payne> so I am willing to work on it
2010-02-21 22:49 <Payne> maybe a solution like syncml
2010-02-21 22:50 <Payne> I know that openerp has a synchro module
2010-02-21 22:50 <Payne> But as I am relatively new to tryton
2010-02-21 22:50 <Payne> I thought I would ask here and on the mailing list list
2010-02-21 22:51 <vengfulsquirrel> I don't think such a thing exists but people have talked a few times about working on some point of sale solution.
2010-02-21 22:52 <Payne> I think it is critical
2010-02-21 22:52 <Payne> to the usability of the project
2010-02-21 22:52 <vengfulsquirrel> I wrote a wizard in tryton that kind of works like point of sale but as its in the client it requires an active internet connection.
2010-02-21 22:52 <petrus> Payne: I am new here too, just in the evaluating phase
2010-02-21 22:52 <Payne> same here
2010-02-21 22:52 <Payne> I actually have an active openerp project
2010-02-21 22:53 <Payne> but I think tryton seems more focused
2010-02-21 22:53 <Payne> than openerp
2010-02-21 22:53 <petrus> Payne: what I have seen so far a general disconnect mode would be difficult
2010-02-21 22:54 <petrus> Payne: however for you problem, you client may batch up the transactions loacally
2010-02-21 22:54 <Payne> using what mechanism?
2010-02-21 22:54 <petrus> Payne: than it can push them up when connected
2010-02-21 22:55 <Payne> from I see
2010-02-21 22:55 <petrus> Payne: I guess you would need some kind of local DB, not necessarily postgres
2010-02-21 22:55 <Payne> yes
2010-02-21 22:56 <Payne> It can be done
2010-02-21 22:56 <Payne> but it would be better to have it part of tryton
2010-02-21 22:56 <vengfulsquirrel> I think creating an entirely separate interface would be the difficult part.
2010-02-21 22:57 <Payne> actually an pos system for amid to large company should support some type of disconnected mode
2010-02-21 22:57 <vengfulsquirrel> What kind of features would the POS support while disconnected?
2010-02-21 22:57 <Payne> just the ability to function
2010-02-21 22:58 <Payne> with the current data
2010-02-21 22:58 <Payne> until it reconnected
2010-02-21 22:58 <Payne> syncml
2010-02-21 22:58 <Payne> was designed for this
2010-02-21 22:59 <Payne> and I think some form of syncml integration in tryton
2010-02-21 22:59 <vengfulsquirrel> All functions cannot be supported if the database integrity is to be maintained.
2010-02-21 22:59 <Payne> well
2010-02-21 22:59 <petrus> Payne: well you would face very funny roll-back problems from time to time
2010-02-21 22:59 <Payne> yes
2010-02-21 22:59 <Payne> syncml supports conflict resolution
2010-02-21 23:00 <Payne> although sometimes
2010-02-21 23:00 <Payne> there may be the need for manual intervention
2010-02-21 23:12 <cedk> petrus:
2010-02-21 23:13 <cedk> petrus: this should improve the install of dev source
2010-02-21 23:14 <petrus> cedk: hello, yes -- thanks.
2010-02-21 23:15 <cedk> Payne: you could have a look at the sqlite backend
2010-02-21 23:15 <cedk> Payne: we use it for neso
2010-02-21 23:16 <cedk> Payne: I think it could be a good way to create async POS
2010-02-21 23:16 <Payne> yes
2010-02-21 23:16 <Payne> the issue is the sync code on the tryton backend
2010-02-21 23:16 <petrus> cedk: by the way, I have just created a nice dependency graph for trytond modules and a dependency list whit topological order to help module installs and/or distro package maintenance
2010-02-21 23:17 <Payne> I think syncml using a python library
2010-02-21 23:17 <Payne> would be ideal
2010-02-21 23:18 <Payne> the issue is proper integration into tryton so it is not a hack
2010-02-21 23:19 <cedk> Payne: I don't know syncml but it seems complicate
2010-02-21 23:19 <cedk> Payne: what do you want to sync?
2010-02-21 23:19 <petrus> cedk: they are based on the files, but the the dependency lists may be longer since they are the transitive closures
2010-02-21 23:20 <Payne> well, I am looking at having a generic synching interface for tryton
2010-02-21 23:20 <cedk> Payne: this will be very complicated
2010-02-21 23:20 <Payne> I agree
2010-02-21 23:21 <cedk> Payne: I worked on the sync module of OpenERP and it was very complicated and not working
2010-02-21 23:21 <Payne> I know
2010-02-21 23:21 <Payne> but i think
2010-02-21 23:21 <Payne> it is worth investing in
2010-02-21 23:21 <Payne> for POS, mobile sales forces
2010-02-21 23:21 <Payne> etc
2010-02-21 23:22 <Payne> especially where I am in the caribbean
2010-02-21 23:22 <Payne> where sometimes internet is spotty
2010-02-21 23:22 <Payne> I am willing to invest in building a proper disconnected mode interface into tryton
2010-02-21 23:23 <Payne> It's either I do that or use ofbiz
2010-02-21 23:23 <Payne> since it has the functionality but it is java
2010-02-21 23:23 <cedk> Payne: no problem, you can create a blueprint
2010-02-21 23:23 <Payne> which I would prefer to avpid
2010-02-21 23:24 <Payne> where are the tryton blueprints kept?
2010-02-21 23:25 <cedk> Payne: on
2010-02-21 23:25 <Payne> ok
2010-02-21 23:25 <Payne> I will do that
2010-02-21 23:25 <Payne> I know there is a synchro module for openerp
2010-02-21 23:25 <cedk> Payne: if you go with blueprint you will have review and comment from others
2010-02-21 23:26 <Payne> cedk: but the feedback does not seem positive. Your thoughts?
2010-02-21 23:28 <cedk> Payne: the feedback of what?
2010-02-21 23:28 <Payne> you said you worked on the sync module
2010-02-21 23:28 <Payne> what was your experience
2010-02-21 23:28 <Payne> ?
2010-02-21 23:29 <cedk> petrus: how do you make the graph? Did you use the Graph object in modules?
2010-02-21 23:29 <cedk> Payne: very bad
2010-02-21 23:29 <Payne> could you elaborate?
2010-02-21 23:29 <cedk> Payne: The goals was to be able to sync two DB for 2 companies
2010-02-21 23:29 <Payne> yes
2010-02-21 23:30 <cedk> Payne: by keeping some objects synchronized
2010-02-21 23:30 <Payne> server to server openerp sync
2010-02-21 23:30 <Payne> ok
2010-02-21 23:30 <cedk> Payne: and the result was that I needed to sync almost every thing
2010-02-21 23:31 <cedk> Payne: because the module is generic and so there is no business logic
2010-02-21 23:31 <Payne> right
2010-02-21 23:31 <vengfulsquirrel> Payne: Hi, I think you should just try to make a limited point of sale interface that only writes simplified versions of new sales and customers via a batch process. Do you think you would need more features than that?
2010-02-21 23:32 <cedk> Payne: it was two years ago but I don't think they have made any progress on it
2010-02-21 23:32 <Payne> I thought about those suggestions
2010-02-21 23:33 <cedk> Payne: by the way, if you want to have write access to the wiki send me an email with your google account
2010-02-21 23:33 <Payne> the issue is that it would be nice to have an elegant bidirectional sync capability so we repurpose it for different projects
2010-02-21 23:34 <Payne> more work upfront
2010-02-21 23:34 <cedk> Payne: the main difficulty is the references like the many2one etc.
2010-02-21 23:34 <Payne> but I think the community would have a more robust solution in the long term
2010-02-21 23:34 <Payne> yes
2010-02-21 23:35 <Payne> but it is a legitimate use case for SMBs
2010-02-21 23:35 <cedk> Payne: there is two solutions, force to have the same ids on both side or having a translation table
2010-02-21 23:35 <Payne> yes
2010-02-21 23:35 <cedk> Payne: and the other problem is concurrency
2010-02-21 23:36 <Payne> that is where a sync engine based on syncml
2010-02-21 23:36 <Payne> seems the best option
2010-02-21 23:36 <cedk> both are really difficult issue in relational world
2010-02-21 23:37 <cedk> Payne: I don't see how a protocol could solve this issue
2010-02-21 23:37 <Payne> not a protocol
2010-02-21 23:37 <Payne> but there are implementations
2010-02-21 23:38 <Payne> that handle conflict resolutions that are open source
2010-02-21 23:38 <Payne> granted
2010-02-21 23:38 <Payne> it is still complex
2010-02-21 23:38 <vengfulsquirrel> I think a generic sync would not be possible its too complicated.
2010-02-21 23:39 <Payne> what I am thinking is that it may not be possible to sync the entire system
2010-02-21 23:39 <petrus> cedk: I didn't use the Graph object, just wrote a short script which uses uses pydot to generate pdf and jpeg
2010-02-21 23:39 <Payne> but an interface in tryton may allow specific data to be synchronized
2010-02-21 23:40 -!- digitalsatori(~tony@ has joined #tryton
2010-02-21 23:41 <cedk> Payne: sync two records is not complicated, it is the UI and behavior that are complicated
2010-02-21 23:44 <cedk> by the way is there anybody that have an other idea of the usage of sync except for a POS?
2010-02-21 23:45 <vengfulsquirrel> I don't see why a POS needs to sync really, or it needs very limited sync, just for new customers(which potentially might not even be necessary if a generic customer is used).
2010-02-21 23:45 <vengfulsquirrel> New sales can just be written, without needed any sync'ing.
2010-02-21 23:47 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: I think POS doesn't create parties nor sale orders
2010-02-21 23:47 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: and yes, I think for a POS it is not really a sync that is needed but almost
2010-02-21 23:48 <cedk> because POS needs to have the latest info about products
2010-02-21 23:48 <cedk> and it needs to push sales (but it is not Tryton sale orders)
2010-02-21 23:50 <vengfulsquirrel> Right, i meant the POS would create sales when it pushed them and it would pull products and pricing.
2010-02-21 23:50 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: yes but for me it is not sale orders because you don't know the party and you don't need the all shipment workflow
2010-02-21 23:51 <vengfulsquirrel> Yes, but you just autofill those because they happened implicitly.
2010-02-21 23:51 <cedk> it must be something else that create accounting moves and stock moves without the upper level models (invoice, shipment etc.)
2010-02-21 23:52 <vengfulsquirrel> I think the existing framework is sufficient, do you mean from some sort of Legal perspective or merely technical ?
2010-02-21 23:52 <petrus> cedk: I have placed the module dependency files at
2010-02-21 23:52 <vengfulsquirrel> I mean that's pretty much exactly what i'm doing now except I use a wizard in the tryton client.
2010-02-21 23:52 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: I think about performance
2010-02-21 23:52 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: you don't need any workflow when pushing from POS to the ERP
2010-02-21 23:53 <vengfulsquirrel> Well inventory still needs to be tracked to shipments must be created.
2010-02-21 23:53 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: and workflow is slow
2010-02-21 23:53 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah tell me about it.
2010-02-21 23:53 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: and I expect that POS will create a lot of lines per days
2010-02-21 23:53 <vengfulsquirrel> From a programmer's perspective though workflow is nice, it allows me to let the worflow check conditions and move things along is larger blocks.
2010-02-21 23:53 <petrus> cedk: I plan to write up the install procedure for Ubuntu, as I do it with - it may be put into the wiki later
2010-02-21 23:54 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: you don't need of shipment as the customer is gone with the product
2010-02-21 23:54 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: all you need is stock moves and the best will have to group all moves of a product in one move
2010-02-21 23:54 <vengfulsquirrel> Yes I run shipment to Done in order to allocate inventory to Customer location.
2010-02-21 23:55 <cedk> petrus: ok, send me an email with your google account to have write access to the wiki
2010-02-21 23:55 <vengfulsquirrel> cedk: I see what you are saying but its more work that would just break on upgrades, whereas depending on existing tryton functionality is more stable.
2010-02-21 23:56 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: yes it is a little more work but it is for speed, and it will be build on existing tryton functionality but at a lower level
2010-02-21 23:56 <vengfulsquirrel> Do you think it would be possible to use the tryton clients interface somehow to create a different program that runs POS ? So that the widgets do not have to be recreated, etc.
2010-02-21 23:57 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: I think it must be possible but it will require some improvement on widgets
2010-02-21 23:57 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: and perhaps new widgets

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