IRC logs of #tryton for Thursday, 2010-11-18 #tryton log beginning Thu Nov 18 00:00:02 CET 2010
hoRnshort sleep - see ya00:02
-!- johbo_( has joined #tryton00:07
-!- plantian( has joined #tryton00:10
-!- johbo( has joined #tryton00:31
-!- johbo_( has joined #tryton00:39
-!- btQuark( has joined #tryton01:02
btQuarkgreetings guys01:02
-!- johbo( has joined #tryton01:10
-!- johbo_( has joined #tryton01:50
-!- johbo( has joined #tryton02:54
-!- gremly(~gremly@ has joined #tryton03:00
-!- rednul( has joined #tryton03:25
-!- johbo( has joined #tryton03:49
-!- Mohammad(cb6acd8a@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #tryton03:52
Guest71692Hi Everybody,03:53
Guest71692First time to come into Tryton Chat03:53
Guest71692Are Tryton Developers have a roadmap ?03:56
plantianHi, maybe check the wiki.  The goals for releases are there.  I'm not sure about an overall roadmap though. Most tryton devs are in Europe I think so not awake right now.04:04
plantianbtQuark: Greetings04:05
plantianI'm just a tryton user, btw.04:08
-!- johbo_( has joined #tryton04:29
-!- johbo( has joined #tryton05:08
-!- yangoon( has joined #tryton05:18
-!- johbo_( has joined #tryton05:53
-!- johbo__( has joined #tryton06:00
-!- johbo( has joined #tryton06:25
-!- mohammad`(cb6acd8a@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #tryton06:57
mohammad`Thanks Plantian.06:58
mohammad`I am going to check it right now.06:58
-!- inventiontime_(cb6acd8a@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #tryton07:14
inventiontime_Hi :)07:15
-!- nicoe(~nicoe@ has joined #tryton08:09
-!- mohammmad123(cb6acd8a@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #tryton08:09
mohammmad123hi everybody.08:10
mohammmad123Does anyone know how to change "search limit" on the client ?08:11
-!- cedk(~ced@gentoo/developer/cedk) has joined #tryton08:12
mohammmad123Hi Cedric :)08:18
cedkmohammmad123: hi08:24
mohammmad123First time for me to come here :)08:25
mohammmad123Regarding your remarks about pricelist, I haven't found any port for your recomendation, It is first time for me to hear about related fields08:26
mohammmad123I haven't found any "post" Sorry !08:26
cedkmohammmad123: I though I already speak about08:28
cedkmohammmad123: the related functionnality is the button on the bottom with an arrow08:29
cedkmohammmad123: like the sales button on party08:29
mohammmad123Yes you are almost right, I remember08:30
-!- paepke( has joined #tryton08:34
-!- rednul( has joined #tryton08:56
-!- pjstevns( has joined #tryton08:57
mohammmad123I though it was for other issues, "search for relational fields" ,09:00
-!- trifon( has joined #tryton09:19
-!- cedk(~ced@gentoo/developer/cedk) has joined #tryton09:31
-!- nicoe_(~nicoe@ has joined #tryton09:47
-!- johbo( has joined #tryton09:50
-!- vladimir_(~vladimir@ has joined #tryton09:55
-!- gordon_geeko(~jeroen@ has joined #tryton10:11
btQuarkare there any plans to get a web interface back?10:18
btQuarkor an integration with hbci (in openerp its been done as far as i see it)10:18
btQuarkor maybe dms integration with alfresco?10:19
btQuark(or those who do that big time)10:19
cedkbtQuark: web client is not a priority10:20
cedkbtQuark: I don't know what is hbci10:20
cedkbtQuark: what do you call DMS10:20
paepkebtQuark, cedk hbci is a common practise in germany for banking. you can join the channel if you want.10:21
btQuarkcdk hbci is a mostly german protocoll (some bastardized webservices with a lot of crypto)  to automate banking10:21
-!- Red15(~red15@unaffiliated/red15) has joined #tryton10:22
paepkecedk, dms aka document management system integration is imho an issue with tryton. the internal dms system isn't enough. there should be connectors to other systems. alfresco could be one of them.10:23
cedkpaepke: DMS means any thing10:23
cedkpaepke: that's why I ask what is DMS to any person who ask for one10:24
-!- Timitos(~kp@ has joined #tryton10:24
btQuarkcedk, right, dms in that means what paepke says - its integration of your workflows with all that digital documents that fall out of your scanner, your email inbox, the pdf that get downloaded, any the like10:25
btQuarkthe documents that need to be attached to action in your ledger10:25
cedkso what is missing in Tryton?10:27
paepkecedk, in my eyes there is an integration missing to other systems. i'm occasionally looking into the implementation of the attachment storage system and how to involve that.10:28
cedkpaepke: why using an other system?10:29
paepkecedk, some companies have already dms systems for their incoming paper invoices which are certified for compliance.10:29
cedkpaepke: so I don't understand10:29
paepkeor specialized systems for dealing with their drawings.10:30
btQuarkand the nice parts of alfresco are that it offers nfs/cifs, sharpoint compatibility, office/openoffice addons10:30
btQuarkplus it probably cooks coffee and is relativly mature10:30
paepkecedk, what i wanted to say is that there are systems which are maybe for years in the company which manage the document workflow better than tryton.10:31
btQuarkwhile i understand that that openerp was about integrating everything in a *single* system that might end up beeing overkill for an opensource system10:31
paepkebtQuark, we have webdav support in tryton for attachment storage10:31
btQuarkand i'ld argue that leveraging good opensource-components in a decent way that ensures function is acceptable too10:32
btQuarkthey offer webservices and rest and what not for interfaces on their part10:32
btQuarkthe backup issues are solved10:32
paepkebtQuark, alfresco is a great tool. i know.10:32
cedkso what do you want to integrate?10:33
paepkecedk, to put or get documents and the attributes from/to an other system.10:33
paepkecedk, i see it like supporting different sql-databases.10:34
btQuarki'ld think some "add ledger entry, select document from alfresco storage, maybe add metadata there, and go"10:34
btQuarkpaepke good point10:34
paepkecedk, i don't wanna replace the internal attachment system.10:35
btQuarkjust make it an option aside other attachment systems10:35
cedkI don't understand10:36
-!- bechamel( has joined #tryton10:36
cedkput/get from where and to where based on what?10:36
paepkecedk, get/put the documents and metadata to another system which is not tryton based.10:37
paepkecedk, alfresco is a good example. or some closed drawing management systems.10:38
cedkpaepke: based on what? and put where?10:39
paepkecedk, put via a webservice like xml-rpc or whatever they provide.10:40
paepkecedk, there are a lot of differnet systems around. i cannot provide you all of the iunterfaces10:40
btQuarkall are not the question10:41
btQuarkyou do not support all imaginable sql-systems as well10:41
btQuark"very well known ones" would suffice10:41
paepkecedk, maybe i misunderstand you somehow.10:41
btQuarkone of them is alfresco10:41
cedkpaepke: I don't understand the workflow10:41
cedkbtQuark: I know alfresco (never use it)10:42
cedkbut if you want to use alfresco, use it that's all10:43
paepkecedk, currently you save an attachment in tryton and its saved as md5-hash in /var/lib/trytond/databasename.10:43
cedkI don't what should be done in Tryton10:43
paepkecedk, that file could be saved instead via another system by overriding necessary methods.10:43
paepkecedk, another point: you have some drawings already managed in another system. there you have an product number attached to the drawing.10:44
paepkecedk, this drawing could be automatically displayed in the attachment system in tryton where we have a match in both sytems.10:45
cedkpaepke: the API to store file is the filesystem so put what you want on under it10:45
cedkpaepke: all you said is just customization10:46
paepkecedk, i don't think that the filesystem api is the right one.10:46
paepkecedk, what about running tryton on windows. there is nothing like fuse (never heard of something)10:47
paepkecedk, if you have a file on the filesystem, you have to explicit generate an attachment data record in tryton to see that file.10:48
-!- nicoe( has joined #tryton10:48
btQuarkfor windows you would not need fuse then, since - at least alfresco - can be connected via nativ windows-fileshare10:48
paepkecedk, its way harder to write a filesystem api than overriding a put/get/search method just for an attachment module.10:49
cedkI still don't understand the workflow you want10:50
paepkecedk, nice project. bookmarked10:50
btQuarknice one.10:51
btQuarkACTION bookmarks too10:51
paepkecedk, the idea behind is to have document from other systems be integrated/viewable in tryton.10:51
paepkecedk, and another idea is to have the documents of tryton available in other systems.10:53
paepkecedk, and not to replicate documents somehow.10:54
cedkpaepke: so just make a sync between Tryton's WebDAV and other system10:55
cedkthere is a norm for that
btQuarkwhy should i *duplicate* things when i do not have to10:56
btQuarkthat results in more complexity than what is needed10:56
btQuarkand it is not that webdav would be one of the more reliable protocols10:57
paepkecedk, agree btQuark with replication.10:57
cedkso I don't understand what you want10:58
paepkecedk, have a transparent access to documents via tryton.10:58
paepkecedk, even if the document isn't stored in tryton itself.10:58
paepkecedk, like linking to other documents. but searchable and viewable inside tryton.11:00
btQuarki'ld more or less ok to only be able to link to a document somewhere elese11:00
btQuarkit would be ok to link to the documents webpage in alfresco11:01
btQuarkand retrieve&open it using the os' methods11:01
cedkbtQuark: there is link on attachement11:01
paepkebtQuark, no. i don't see it like that. you break the user interface by referencing to other systems.11:01
paepkebtQuark, and of course not all software has a nifty web interface where you can link to.11:02
btQuarkgood point paepke, but i wondered if that would less effort then, and afterwards adding to it11:02
paepkebtQuark, and i agree to cedk that there is already a linking system, which you could fill with a interface.11:02
btQuarkhm, so link it and show what is linked in tryton?11:03
cedkIf I have to do something like that, I really sync data11:05
cedkand if it is possible to reuse the way the other system store the data, I will try11:05
cedkbut there is any norm for that so it will always be customization11:06
bechamelpaepke: if i understand you correctly, what you can do is to overload get_datas and set_datas of ir.attachement and make it talk with another system11:06
cedksync is because you must define where the docuement of each system should be stored on the otherside11:06
paepkebechamel, sorry for the delay.11:28
paepkebechamel, kind of overload. i see it as a multi-database support to both internal and external storage systems at the same time.11:29
paepkecedk, sync isn't the right way in my eyes.11:29
cedkpaepke: it is not like multi-database support as there is no standard11:30
cedkpaepke: you can prevent sync if you can add trigger on the other side11:31
paepkecedk, on tryton side it can be seen as this. get_datas and set_datas is what should be available. the transport layer like xmlrpc, filesystem api, whatever isn't intresting here.11:32
cedkpaepke: don't understand11:33
paepkecedk, implement kind of mapper like an orm on the sql database side.11:33
cedkpaepke: still don't understand11:34
paepkecedk, we can see a document as an object, right?11:34
cedkSQL is independ standard language for relational database11:35
paepkecedk, and for saving and reading a document we have functions.11:35
paepkecedk, these functions differ from the underlaying storage system.11:35
paepkecedk,  on filesystems these are and os.write.11:35
paepkecedk, additionally we have some sql-data which are stored in the attachment table.11:36
paepkecedk, what i want is to implement a generic object which has get_datas, set_datas and set/get_metadata.11:38
cedkpaepke: why don't you want to use filesystem as storage system for file11:38
paepkecedk, cause the files can already in another system.11:39
cedkpaepke: so make ln11:39
paepkecedk, ln?11:39
cedkpaepke: link11:39
cedkyou must see filesystem is to file like SQL server is to relational data11:41
paepkecedk, link is a possible solution, but i have to populate that links. and i cannot store/change data from tryton to there to be kind of generic.11:42
paepkecedk, i don't see that attachment stuff just like files. they are documents. and for that kind of object a filesystem isn't the right thing necessarily. in tryton we have the additional metadata stored in sql.11:44
cedkpaepke: metadata is in SQL because there is no standard API for it on filesystem11:45
paepkecedk, right. there is no standard api for documents.11:45
paepkecedk tryton implements it with an sql/filesystem kombination.11:46
cedkpaepke: but we got one WebDAV11:47
paepkecedk, to expose the data, yes.11:48
cedkpaepke: there is two stuffs you are talking about11:48
cedk- don't duplicate data11:48
cedk- sync data structure between Tryton and an other system11:48
paepkecedk, i'm not talking about syncing. I'm talking about accessing data on other systems.11:49
paepkecedk, data-structure should not be synced into tryton somehow. it should just be accessible via some sort of function.11:50
cedkpaepke: I'm not agree, the other system don't know about Invoice, Sale, etc.11:51
cedkpaepke: so you can not get this information from there11:51
paepkecedk, the other system could store "document_type"="invoice" , "invoice_no" = "123"11:52
paepkecedk, with that you could match the foreign document into the right invoice attachment.11:52
paepkecedk, but that would be an customization question. not a generic approach11:53
cedkpaepke: that is why I talk about sync11:53
cedkand it is always bad to store internal reference on external system11:54
paepkecedk, the match can be some kind of regex or search domains.11:55
paepkecedk, as i mentioned before: i don't wanna necessarily replace the ir.attachment module. i want to enhance the possibilities to get interfaces to other systems in the companies eco-system.11:56
paepkecedk, an example is the ldap-connector. some ldap-servers use "user" as account names, others "sAMAccount" to provide a username. we can use that kind of interface to refer to external documents to match them to existing models like invoices or products11:59
paepkecedk, that would not be a sync, but a defined customized approach on top of a generic attachment type.12:00
cedkpaepke: I don't understand12:02
cedkpaepke: It is a sync12:03
paepkecedk, yes, youre right. if you don't store it locally and access it everytime again. i wanted to focus on the point with the matching of users/documents.12:05
paepkecedk, how to get to the data. regardsless if you store it locally or not.12:05
paepkecedk, so youre point is: use a filesystem-wrapper to access the files and sync somehow the metadata of the document into the ir.attachment table.12:12
-!- Timitos(~kp@ has left #tryton12:24
paepkecedk, maybe we should get back to this discussion somewhen. i have to go12:26
-!- paepke( has left #tryton12:28
-!- hoRn( has joined #tryton12:30
-!- paepke( has joined #tryton12:45
-!- johbo_( has joined #tryton14:26
-!- pjstevns( has left #tryton14:42
-!- bechamel( has joined #tryton14:46
hoRncedk: are you generating the windows-client with py2exe?14:49
hoRnbechamel: or you or anybody else14:49
bechamelhoRn: I have never done it, but iirc all you have to do is use the to build it14:51
hoRnbechamel: oh - nice.14:53
hoRnif i have the time i make a contribution with the one-click-opener for attachments on windows14:55
-!- paepke( has joined #tryton15:10
-!- trifon( has joined #tryton15:31
-!- pheller( has joined #tryton15:40
-!- zodman(~andres-va@ has joined #tryton15:45
-!- zodman(~andres-va@foresight/developer/zodman) has joined #tryton15:45
-!- pepeu(~manuel@ has joined #tryton15:55
hoRni think, that the set method of x2many should accept list of ids and automaticly cast them to [('create',ids)]. Why: i do a rpc-import from one-database to another with read and create - so the read-method gives me a list of the ids and i have to manipulate the dict. but i don't know the sideeffeccts of this suggestion15:57
phelleranyone have a link to the "ConTeXT" pdf renderer that was discussed on tryton-dev?15:57
paepkepheller, ?15:58
phellerpaepke: danke15:59
paepkepheller, bitte15:59
hoRnnot create > [('add',ids)]16:16
-!- gremly(~gremly@ has joined #tryton16:51
-!- pjstevns( has joined #tryton16:56
-!- pjstevns( has left #tryton16:56
-!- gordon_geeko( has joined #tryton18:22
-!- heg(~heg@ has joined #tryton18:28
-!- pepeu(~manuel@ has joined #tryton18:33
-!- johbo( has joined #tryton19:30
-!- trifon( has joined #tryton19:39
-!- johbo_( has joined #tryton19:46
-!- johbo( has joined #tryton19:54
-!- johbo_( has joined #tryton20:41
-!- bechamel( has joined #tryton20:50
-!- johbo( has joined #tryton22:07
gordon_geekothere is a One2One type field planned for a future version?22:41
gordon_geekobechamel: thx!23:07
-!- cedk(~ced@gentoo/developer/cedk) has joined #tryton23:43

Generated by 2.11.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!