IRC logs of #tryton for Thursday, 2010-11-18 #tryton log beginning Thu Nov 18 00:00:02 CET 2010
2010-11-18 00:02 <hoRn> short sleep - see ya
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2010-11-18 01:02 <btQuark> greetings guys
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2010-11-18 03:53 <Guest71692> Hi Everybody,
2010-11-18 03:53 <Guest71692> First time to come into Tryton Chat
2010-11-18 03:53 <Guest71692> :)
2010-11-18 03:56 <Guest71692> Are Tryton Developers have a roadmap ?
2010-11-18 04:04 <plantian> Hi, maybe check the wiki. The goals for releases are there. I'm not sure about an overall roadmap though. Most tryton devs are in Europe I think so not awake right now.
2010-11-18 04:05 <plantian> btQuark: Greetings
2010-11-18 04:08 <plantian> I'm just a tryton user, btw.
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2010-11-18 06:58 <mohammad`> Thanks Plantian.
2010-11-18 06:58 <mohammad`> I am going to check it right now.
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2010-11-18 07:15 <inventiontime_> Hi :)
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2010-11-18 08:10 <mohammmad123> hi everybody.
2010-11-18 08:11 <mohammmad123> Does anyone know how to change "search limit" on the client ?
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2010-11-18 08:18 <mohammmad123> Hi Cedric :)
2010-11-18 08:24 <cedk> mohammmad123: hi
2010-11-18 08:25 <mohammmad123> First time for me to come here :)
2010-11-18 08:26 <mohammmad123> Regarding your remarks about pricelist, I haven't found any port for your recomendation, It is first time for me to hear about related fields
2010-11-18 08:26 <mohammmad123> I haven't found any "post" Sorry !
2010-11-18 08:28 <cedk> mohammmad123: I though I already speak about
2010-11-18 08:29 <cedk> mohammmad123: the related functionnality is the button on the bottom with an arrow
2010-11-18 08:29 <cedk> mohammmad123: like the sales button on party
2010-11-18 08:30 <mohammmad123> Yes you are almost right, I remember
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2010-11-18 09:00 <mohammmad123> I though it was for other issues, "search for relational fields" ,
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2010-11-18 10:18 <btQuark> are there any plans to get a web interface back?
2010-11-18 10:18 <btQuark> or an integration with hbci (in openerp its been done as far as i see it)
2010-11-18 10:19 <btQuark> or maybe dms integration with alfresco?
2010-11-18 10:19 <btQuark> (or those who do that big time)
2010-11-18 10:20 <cedk> btQuark: web client is not a priority
2010-11-18 10:20 <cedk> btQuark: I don't know what is hbci
2010-11-18 10:20 <cedk> btQuark: what do you call DMS
2010-11-18 10:21 <paepke> btQuark, cedk hbci is a common practise in germany for banking. you can join the channel if you want.
2010-11-18 10:21 <btQuark> cdk hbci is a mostly german protocoll (some bastardized webservices with a lot of crypto) to automate banking
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2010-11-18 10:23 <paepke> cedk, dms aka document management system integration is imho an issue with tryton. the internal dms system isn't enough. there should be connectors to other systems. alfresco could be one of them.
2010-11-18 10:23 <cedk> paepke: DMS means any thing
2010-11-18 10:24 <cedk> paepke: that's why I ask what is DMS to any person who ask for one
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2010-11-18 10:25 <btQuark> cedk, right, dms in that means what paepke says - its integration of your workflows with all that digital documents that fall out of your scanner, your email inbox, the pdf that get downloaded, any the like
2010-11-18 10:25 <btQuark> the documents that need to be attached to action in your ledger
2010-11-18 10:25 <btQuark> "belege"
2010-11-18 10:27 <cedk> so what is missing in Tryton?
2010-11-18 10:28 <paepke> cedk, in my eyes there is an integration missing to other systems. i'm occasionally looking into the implementation of the attachment storage system and how to involve that.
2010-11-18 10:29 <cedk> paepke: why using an other system?
2010-11-18 10:29 <paepke> cedk, some companies have already dms systems for their incoming paper invoices which are certified for compliance.
2010-11-18 10:29 <cedk> paepke: so I don't understand
2010-11-18 10:30 <paepke> or specialized systems for dealing with their drawings.
2010-11-18 10:30 <btQuark> and the nice parts of alfresco are that it offers nfs/cifs, sharpoint compatibility, office/openoffice addons
2010-11-18 10:30 <btQuark> plus it probably cooks coffee and is relativly mature
2010-11-18 10:31 <paepke> cedk, what i wanted to say is that there are systems which are maybe for years in the company which manage the document workflow better than tryton.
2010-11-18 10:31 <btQuark> while i understand that that openerp was about integrating everything in a *single* system that might end up beeing overkill for an opensource system
2010-11-18 10:31 <paepke> btQuark, we have webdav support in tryton for attachment storage
2010-11-18 10:32 <btQuark> and i'ld argue that leveraging good opensource-components in a decent way that ensures function is acceptable too
2010-11-18 10:32 <btQuark> they offer webservices and rest and what not for interfaces on their part
2010-11-18 10:32 <btQuark> the backup issues are solved
2010-11-18 10:32 <paepke> btQuark, alfresco is a great tool. i know.
2010-11-18 10:33 <cedk> so what do you want to integrate?
2010-11-18 10:33 <paepke> cedk, to put or get documents and the attributes from/to an other system.
2010-11-18 10:34 <paepke> cedk, i see it like supporting different sql-databases.
2010-11-18 10:34 <btQuark> i'ld think some "add ledger entry, select document from alfresco storage, maybe add metadata there, and go"
2010-11-18 10:34 <btQuark> paepke good point
2010-11-18 10:35 <paepke> cedk, i don't wanna replace the internal attachment system.
2010-11-18 10:35 <btQuark> just make it an option aside other attachment systems
2010-11-18 10:36 <cedk> I don't understand
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2010-11-18 10:36 <cedk> put/get from where and to where based on what?
2010-11-18 10:37 <paepke> cedk, get/put the documents and metadata to another system which is not tryton based.
2010-11-18 10:38 <paepke> cedk, alfresco is a good example. or some closed drawing management systems.
2010-11-18 10:39 <cedk> paepke: based on what? and put where?
2010-11-18 10:40 <paepke> cedk, put via a webservice like xml-rpc or whatever they provide.
2010-11-18 10:40 <paepke> cedk, there are a lot of differnet systems around. i cannot provide you all of the iunterfaces
2010-11-18 10:41 <btQuark> all are not the question
2010-11-18 10:41 <btQuark> you do not support all imaginable sql-systems as well
2010-11-18 10:41 <btQuark> "very well known ones" would suffice
2010-11-18 10:41 <paepke> cedk, maybe i misunderstand you somehow.
2010-11-18 10:41 <btQuark> one of them is alfresco
2010-11-18 10:41 <cedk> paepke: I don't understand the workflow
2010-11-18 10:42 <btQuark>
2010-11-18 10:42 <cedk> btQuark: I know alfresco (never use it)
2010-11-18 10:43 <cedk> but if you want to use alfresco, use it that's all
2010-11-18 10:43 <paepke> cedk, currently you save an attachment in tryton and its saved as md5-hash in /var/lib/trytond/databasename.
2010-11-18 10:43 <cedk> I don't what should be done in Tryton
2010-11-18 10:43 <paepke> cedk, that file could be saved instead via another system by overriding necessary methods.
2010-11-18 10:44 <paepke> cedk, another point: you have some drawings already managed in another system. there you have an product number attached to the drawing.
2010-11-18 10:45 <paepke> cedk, this drawing could be automatically displayed in the attachment system in tryton where we have a match in both sytems.
2010-11-18 10:45 <cedk> paepke: the API to store file is the filesystem so put what you want on under it
2010-11-18 10:46 <cedk> paepke: all you said is just customization
2010-11-18 10:46 <paepke> cedk, i don't think that the filesystem api is the right one.
2010-11-18 10:47 <paepke> cedk, what about running tryton on windows. there is nothing like fuse (never heard of something)
2010-11-18 10:48 <paepke> cedk, if you have a file on the filesystem, you have to explicit generate an attachment data record in tryton to see that file.
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2010-11-18 10:48 <btQuark> for windows you would not need fuse then, since - at least alfresco - can be connected via nativ windows-fileshare
2010-11-18 10:49 <paepke> cedk, its way harder to write a filesystem api than overriding a put/get/search method just for an attachment module.
2010-11-18 10:50 <cedk> paepke:
2010-11-18 10:50 <cedk> I still don't understand the workflow you want
2010-11-18 10:50 <paepke> cedk, nice project. bookmarked
2010-11-18 10:51 <btQuark> nice one.
2010-11-18 10:51 <btQuark> ACTION bookmarks too
2010-11-18 10:51 <paepke> cedk, the idea behind is to have document from other systems be integrated/viewable in tryton.
2010-11-18 10:53 <paepke> cedk, and another idea is to have the documents of tryton available in other systems.
2010-11-18 10:54 <paepke> cedk, and not to replicate documents somehow.
2010-11-18 10:55 <cedk> paepke: so just make a sync between Tryton's WebDAV and other system
2010-11-18 10:55 <cedk> there is a norm for that
2010-11-18 10:56 <btQuark> why should i *duplicate* things when i do not have to
2010-11-18 10:56 <btQuark> that results in more complexity than what is needed
2010-11-18 10:57 <btQuark> and it is not that webdav would be one of the more reliable protocols
2010-11-18 10:57 <paepke> cedk, agree btQuark with replication.
2010-11-18 10:58 <cedk> so I don't understand what you want
2010-11-18 10:58 <paepke> cedk, have a transparent access to documents via tryton.
2010-11-18 10:58 <paepke> cedk, even if the document isn't stored in tryton itself.
2010-11-18 11:00 <paepke> cedk, like linking to other documents. but searchable and viewable inside tryton.
2010-11-18 11:00 <btQuark> i'ld more or less ok to only be able to link to a document somewhere elese
2010-11-18 11:01 <btQuark> it would be ok to link to the documents webpage in alfresco
2010-11-18 11:01 <btQuark> and retrieve&open it using the os' methods
2010-11-18 11:01 <cedk> btQuark: there is link on attachement
2010-11-18 11:01 <paepke> btQuark, no. i don't see it like that. you break the user interface by referencing to other systems.
2010-11-18 11:02 <paepke> btQuark, and of course not all software has a nifty web interface where you can link to.
2010-11-18 11:02 <btQuark> good point paepke, but i wondered if that would less effort then, and afterwards adding to it
2010-11-18 11:02 <paepke> btQuark, and i agree to cedk that there is already a linking system, which you could fill with a interface.
2010-11-18 11:03 <btQuark> hm, so link it and show what is linked in tryton?
2010-11-18 11:05 <cedk> If I have to do something like that, I really sync data
2010-11-18 11:05 <cedk> and if it is possible to reuse the way the other system store the data, I will try
2010-11-18 11:06 <cedk> but there is any norm for that so it will always be customization
2010-11-18 11:06 <bechamel> paepke: if i understand you correctly, what you can do is to overload get_datas and set_datas of ir.attachement and make it talk with another system
2010-11-18 11:06 <cedk> sync is because you must define where the docuement of each system should be stored on the otherside
2010-11-18 11:28 <paepke> bechamel, sorry for the delay.
2010-11-18 11:29 <paepke> bechamel, kind of overload. i see it as a multi-database support to both internal and external storage systems at the same time.
2010-11-18 11:29 <paepke> cedk, sync isn't the right way in my eyes.
2010-11-18 11:30 <cedk> paepke: it is not like multi-database support as there is no standard
2010-11-18 11:31 <cedk> paepke: you can prevent sync if you can add trigger on the other side
2010-11-18 11:32 <paepke> cedk, on tryton side it can be seen as this. get_datas and set_datas is what should be available. the transport layer like xmlrpc, filesystem api, whatever isn't intresting here.
2010-11-18 11:33 <cedk> paepke: don't understand
2010-11-18 11:33 <paepke> cedk, implement kind of mapper like an orm on the sql database side.
2010-11-18 11:34 <cedk> paepke: still don't understand
2010-11-18 11:34 <paepke> cedk, we can see a document as an object, right?
2010-11-18 11:35 <cedk> SQL is independ standard language for relational database
2010-11-18 11:35 <paepke> cedk, and for saving and reading a document we have functions.
2010-11-18 11:35 <paepke> cedk, these functions differ from the underlaying storage system.
2010-11-18 11:35 <paepke> cedk, on filesystems these are and os.write.
2010-11-18 11:36 <paepke> cedk, additionally we have some sql-data which are stored in the attachment table.
2010-11-18 11:38 <paepke> cedk, what i want is to implement a generic object which has get_datas, set_datas and set/get_metadata.
2010-11-18 11:38 <cedk> paepke: why don't you want to use filesystem as storage system for file
2010-11-18 11:39 <paepke> cedk, cause the files can already in another system.
2010-11-18 11:39 <cedk> paepke: so make ln
2010-11-18 11:39 <paepke> cedk, ln?
2010-11-18 11:39 <cedk> paepke: link
2010-11-18 11:41 <cedk> you must see filesystem is to file like SQL server is to relational data
2010-11-18 11:42 <paepke> cedk, link is a possible solution, but i have to populate that links. and i cannot store/change data from tryton to there to be kind of generic.
2010-11-18 11:44 <paepke> cedk, i don't see that attachment stuff just like files. they are documents. and for that kind of object a filesystem isn't the right thing necessarily. in tryton we have the additional metadata stored in sql.
2010-11-18 11:45 <cedk> paepke: metadata is in SQL because there is no standard API for it on filesystem
2010-11-18 11:45 <paepke> cedk, right. there is no standard api for documents.
2010-11-18 11:46 <paepke> cedk tryton implements it with an sql/filesystem kombination.
2010-11-18 11:47 <cedk> paepke: but we got one WebDAV
2010-11-18 11:48 <paepke> cedk, to expose the data, yes.
2010-11-18 11:48 <cedk> paepke: there is two stuffs you are talking about
2010-11-18 11:48 <cedk> - don't duplicate data
2010-11-18 11:48 <cedk> - sync data structure between Tryton and an other system
2010-11-18 11:49 <paepke> cedk, i'm not talking about syncing. I'm talking about accessing data on other systems.
2010-11-18 11:50 <paepke> cedk, data-structure should not be synced into tryton somehow. it should just be accessible via some sort of function.
2010-11-18 11:51 <cedk> paepke: I'm not agree, the other system don't know about Invoice, Sale, etc.
2010-11-18 11:51 <cedk> paepke: so you can not get this information from there
2010-11-18 11:52 <paepke> cedk, the other system could store "document_type"="invoice" , "invoice_no" = "123"
2010-11-18 11:52 <paepke> cedk, with that you could match the foreign document into the right invoice attachment.
2010-11-18 11:53 <paepke> cedk, but that would be an customization question. not a generic approach
2010-11-18 11:53 <cedk> paepke: that is why I talk about sync
2010-11-18 11:54 <cedk> and it is always bad to store internal reference on external system
2010-11-18 11:55 <paepke> cedk, the match can be some kind of regex or search domains.
2010-11-18 11:56 <paepke> cedk, as i mentioned before: i don't wanna necessarily replace the ir.attachment module. i want to enhance the possibilities to get interfaces to other systems in the companies eco-system.
2010-11-18 11:59 <paepke> cedk, an example is the ldap-connector. some ldap-servers use "user" as account names, others "sAMAccount" to provide a username. we can use that kind of interface to refer to external documents to match them to existing models like invoices or products
2010-11-18 12:00 <paepke> cedk, that would not be a sync, but a defined customized approach on top of a generic attachment type.
2010-11-18 12:02 <cedk> paepke: I don't understand
2010-11-18 12:03 <cedk> paepke: It is a sync
2010-11-18 12:05 <paepke> cedk, yes, youre right. if you don't store it locally and access it everytime again. i wanted to focus on the point with the matching of users/documents.
2010-11-18 12:05 <paepke> cedk, how to get to the data. regardsless if you store it locally or not.
2010-11-18 12:12 <paepke> cedk, so youre point is: use a filesystem-wrapper to access the files and sync somehow the metadata of the document into the ir.attachment table.
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2010-11-18 12:26 <paepke> cedk, maybe we should get back to this discussion somewhen. i have to go
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2010-11-18 14:49 <hoRn> cedk: are you generating the windows-client with py2exe?
2010-11-18 14:49 <hoRn> bechamel: or you or anybody else
2010-11-18 14:51 <bechamel> hoRn: I have never done it, but iirc all you have to do is use the to build it
2010-11-18 14:53 <hoRn> bechamel: oh - nice.
2010-11-18 14:55 <hoRn> if i have the time i make a contribution with the one-click-opener for attachments on windows
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2010-11-18 15:57 <hoRn> i think, that the set method of x2many should accept list of ids and automaticly cast them to [('create',ids)]. Why: i do a rpc-import from one-database to another with read and create - so the read-method gives me a list of the ids and i have to manipulate the dict. but i don't know the sideeffeccts of this suggestion
2010-11-18 15:57 <pheller> anyone have a link to the "ConTeXT" pdf renderer that was discussed on tryton-dev?
2010-11-18 15:58 <paepke> pheller, ?
2010-11-18 15:59 <pheller> paepke: danke
2010-11-18 15:59 <paepke> pheller, bitte
2010-11-18 16:16 <hoRn> not create > [('add',ids)]
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2010-11-18 22:41 <gordon_geeko> there is a One2One type field planned for a future version?
2010-11-18 22:53 <bechamel> gordon_geeko:
2010-11-18 22:53 <bechamel> and
2010-11-18 23:07 <gordon_geeko> bechamel: thx!
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