IRC logs of #tryton for Friday, 2018-05-18

chat.freenode.net #tryton log beginning Fri May 18 00:00:01 CEST 2018
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jmpoureHello everyone. I am Jean-Michel Pouré and I am willing to contribute some documentation to Tryton, starting with installation issues. I propose to ask questions on the mailing list and then submit and discuss patches to documentation.09:02
pokolijmpoure: Hi, Sergi here (I replied you on mailing list)09:03
pokolijmpoure: feel free to ask the questions here first ass you will probably have faster responses09:03
jmpoureThanks. I will be starting with trytond/INSTALL09:08
jmpoureSee doc/topics/install.rst09:08
jmpourecan doc/topic/install.rst be compiled using a command line or is this the end-user documentation?09:09
cedkjmpoure: you should check the discussion on https://bugs.tryton.org/issue739709:09
cedkjmpoure: and there is a Makefile in trytond/doc09:10
jmpoureThanks, I registered Tryton issue tracker.09:12
jmpoureSorry I am quite unfamiliar with Python documentation. In the doc tree, what make command should I run to display all documentation ? make help shows:09:23
jmpourePlease use `make <target>' where <target> is one of09:23
jmpourehtml      to make standalone HTML files09:24
jmpoureWhen typing make html nothing happens.09:24
jmpoureSorry it is in _build/html09:25
jmpoureThis is quite complex.09:25
cedkjmpoure: this is sphinx: http://www.sphinx-doc.org/en/stable/#09:26
semariethe last line on the console after issuing the "make html" command should be: "Build finished. The HTML pages are in _build/html."09:26
jmpoureOkay, this is what need to be written in INSTALL not simply "See doc/topics/install.rst".09:27
jmpoureI can read Sphinx HTML documentation now, thanks. Is there a default way to read Sphinx documentation from command line?09:29
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nicoejmpoure: I'm afraid I don't understand the question but you can use lynx or firefox09:31
jmpoureOK. This is written in readme: sphinx-build doc/ doc/09:33
jmpourein fact sphinx-build doc/ doc/ fails as source and destination forlders are not the same. On the converse sphinx-build doc/ html/ works and creates a seperate html folder.09:35
Timitoswhy are you not using "make html"?09:37
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jmpourebecause it is written in trytond/INSTALL09:38
jmpoureSorry Trytond/README09:39
jmpoureI am trying to start writting documentation somewhere :)09:39
jmpoureOne issue with Tryton is that it has too many information entry points. A newcomer like me is lost and does not know where to start, even reading documentation is not straightforward.09:40
Timitosi agree. i think it would be good to first have a plan how to change that and to discuss the plan first and after there is an agreement about how to improve the structure of the documentation to start changing it09:41
cedkTimitos: I do not think it will work to have a big plan09:42
cedkdocumentation is created not differently than code09:43
cedkand I think we should improve documentation like we do for the code with small steps09:43
Timitoscedk: but otherwise i see the risk that jmpoure proposes you something and put a load of work in it and in the review you propose a completely different way to solve it. i want to prevent frustration09:44
cedkand I find https://bugs.tryton.org/issue7397 is a good starting point09:44
TimitosIMHO it is always better to have a plan than to start without one09:44
cedka small plan that can be explained in few sentence in the bug tracker is OK09:45
cedkbut a complete strategic plan for Tryton communication will never be achived09:45
cedkso I agree with jmpoure that the README and doc folders are duplicate and https://bugs.tryton.org/issue7397 is about that09:46
jmpoureLet's go simple the way it is done in free software projets. If it is simple to explain, then it is simple to fix and the users understand immediately.09:48
jmpoureI propose to point INSTALL to README writting something like :09:49
jmpoure(this is just a very quick proposal for discussion).09:49
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jmpoureOK. Readme points to INSTALL.09:51
cedkI think as I said in https://bugs.tryton.org/issue7397, it is even better to remove INSTALL and README, and use only doc/09:52
jmpoureIt is also my opinion. There are too many information entry points and it must be a nightmare to handle.09:52
jmpoureINSTALL should point to README.09:53
cedkthey may be some part of README's that should be moved into doc/index.rst probably09:53
cedkjmpoure: what do you mean by "point"?09:53
jmpoureREADME should explain how to make the HTML documentation.09:53
jmpoureI mean a simple phrase like "Please read the file README which explains how to view Tryton complete documentation".09:54
cedkjmpoure: I prefer to not have the file at all09:54
jmpoureOK, but you should explain at least to people like me how to make the documentation. What file is displayed by default by github ?09:55
cedkI do not think building the doc is a very important task, people will read it on doc.tryton.org09:55
cedkjmpoure: github should not be our principal concern, it is just a code mirror09:57
jmpouregithub is a concern because people connect to github like people use Google nowadays.09:59
jmpouregithub shows README. So INSTALL can be safely removed.09:59
jmpourei will write and new README and come back with a nice solution. Just give me some time.10:00
cedkjmpoure: I think README should be removed because it duplicates information with doc/10:01
jmpoureYou are right, but doc is a subfolder and people to have to look in subfolders unless it is requested from README.10:02
jmpoureEvery free software project has a README file, so it does sound normal for Tryton to have a very simple README file.10:02
jmpoureWe are more  of the same opinion.10:03
jmpoureYou advice people to read the documentation online or in the doc folder.10:03
jmpoureI am of the same opinion.10:03
jmpoureBut the readme should inform people where to find documentation: online or in the doc folder.10:04
nicoeCan github display something else than the README file ?10:04
jmpoureI don't know.10:04
nicoehttps://help.github.com/articles/about-readmes/10:05
nicoe"If you put your README file in your repository's root, docs, or hidden .github directory, GitHub will recognize and automatically surface your README to repository visitors."10:05
jmpoureyes, but people downloading Tryton also need a simple README in the main directory.10:07
jmpourePersonnaly, I like github guidelines, why not stick to them.10:08
cedkjmpoure: why? if there is a doc folder10:08
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jmpoure\/doc inside trytond10:09
cedkjmpoure: I'm talking about all repositories10:09
jmpoureI understand.10:09
cedkfor me, trytond should be treated like others repositories10:11
jmpoureOK, but I was only speaking of trytond at first.10:11
cedknicoe: it will be better if github would also use doc/index.rst10:11
nicoewhile I agree that github is a major factor when searching for softwares, the README file don't have to be in the root of the repo to be displayed10:12
nicoecedk: yes but they don't10:12
cedkI do not care about where the README is, I do care about duplicate information between doc/ and README10:13
jmpoureLet's agree there should be no duplicates.10:13
cedkalso for me, the description on PyPI is more important than the Github mirror10:14
jmpoureThe README should only contain a very general presentation and then point to documentation on website or in the \doc folder. That's it.10:14
jmpoureSo we all agree, give me 30 minutes to write a proposal.10:14
cedkand if we can not find a working solution it is still possible to remove tryton mirror from github10:15
jmpoureof README file.10:15
jmpoureThis is a separate issue. Are you jocking :)10:15
jmpoureOne issue I found was that it was easier to use hgnested.10:16
jmpoureI would have preferred a single repository with all modules available.10:16
jmpoureThis is another issue, let's discuss later with github.10:16
cedkjmpoure: but we already have a general README text in all modules which as it is general is not helpful10:16
jmpoureWhat do you mean ?10:17
cedkjmpoure: generic/general does not provide information10:17
cedkdevelopers care more about the doc/ folders than the README which is almost never updated10:18
cedkso I prefer to have only one file which is updated10:18
jmpoureOK.10:19
cedkalso having a README that just says look at the doc/, I find this inderection quite annoying10:19
cedkI got such case for some software10:20
jmpoureLet me have a look.10:20
cedkand I would prefered to not have a README file because I would have looked directly to the doc folder10:20
jmpoureOK. If you look directly on the \/doc folder, what file to you open first?10:21
jmpourePersonnaly, I had to read MAKEFILE to understand where to start in \/doc folder.10:22
jmpoureand then I typped "make help" which is complicated.10:22
jmpoureIf you preffer to have only online documentation, this is also a choice. Just write in the README that all Tryton documentation is online at doc.tryton.org10:25
cedkjmpoure: index.rst10:25
jmpourecat index.rst is written in some wiki syntax. It is not suitable from command line.10:26
jmpoureExample:10:26
jmpoure* Looking for specific information? Try the :ref:`genindex`, :ref:`modindex`.10:27
cedkindeed I'm wondering if we should keep the sphinx manchinery in the repositories only trytond and tryton has one10:27
pokolijmpoure: rst is for restructured text which is what you cal wiki syntax :)10:27
pokolicedk: but other respositories are nested inside the trytond docs on doc.tryton.org10:27
jmpoureOK.10:27
cedkpokoli: doc.tryton.org is built from http://hg.tryton.org/doc.tryton.org/10:28
jmpoureAhhhh!10:28
cedkindeed it will be good to have an index.rst which minimal rst command so it can be used as README on github and as description on PYPI10:29
jmpoureThis is becoming too complicated for me. Make it simple and point the README to http://doc.tryton.org10:31
jmpoureThe main focus is to fix the documentation and remove duplicates.10:31
cedkjmpoure: but this may point to the wrong version of the documentation10:31
cedkwe could use include directive to separate them: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/ref/rst/directives.html#including-an-external-document-fragment10:32
cedkmaybe we could keep the README and indeed include it in the doc/index.rst10:33
jmpoureSounds nice.10:34
jmpoureOn my side, I would like to give more information about the installation process and I will focus on that.10:36
jmpourePlease go ahead with simplications and remove files if needed.10:36
jmpoureTalk to you soon.10:36
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andrespolitiis is possible to modify a translation of an existing module with an extension?14:57
andrespolitii mean modify a translation in a module from another module14:57
cedkandrespoliti: http://doc.tryton.org/4.8/trytond/doc/topics/translation.html#override-translations15:02
andrespolitithanks15:04
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