IRC logs of #tryton for Thursday, 2023-01-26 #tryton log beginning Thu Jan 26 12:10:02 AM CET 2023
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pokolicedk: I have the feeling that you prefer if we do not contribute to tryton and you do everything by yourself10:43
cedkpokoli: think what you want10:47
pokolicedk: just wanted to share my frustration because it seems impossible to code something that is good enought to be added on tryton 10:51
pokoliIf I feel such frustration I can not imagin others that are new to the project10:52
cedkpeople want quality but not for their contributions, wtf!10:56
pokolicedk: quality and perfectionism are two different things. 11:05
pokolicedk: for me the problem is following all the process and after two months we are requested other things that where not discussed11:05
pokolicedk: for example sincerly I do not know what I need to do to accept the MR11:11
pokoliJust breaking them into several commits? In such case why requesting it (which may lead to failure) instead of doing it by your self and accept the MR? 11:12
cedkpokoli: that's call development and review11:16
cedkeven if you follow everything, I will never give a white card11:16
pokolicedk: Don't get me wrong, I do not what a white card, just to make it easier for everyone. You included11:18
cedkpokoli: but that's the problem, quality is not easy11:28
cedkfor easy stuff, there is an easy tag11:28
pokolicedk: what will happen if we lower a little bit the quality requirements? 11:29
pokolicedk: maybe making a little bit easier to contribute will allow more people to do the work and we will be able to do more11:30
cedkpokoli: more work to maintain11:35
pokolicedk: more people mantaining it11:35
cedkACTION still waiting for someone else to maintain11:37
cedk99% of contributions are people solving their problem11:38
pokolicedk: I have most of the contributions already deployed to customers by using custom code11:41
pokolicedk: so the problem is fixed for us, we just want to fix it for everyone 11:42
pokoliI can not agree with such 99%11:42
cedkpokoli: ok show me issue that have been solved by someone else than the reporter11:52
pokoliBut I do not see what is wrong when somebody fixes it issues. Indeed if somebody do that nobody will need to take care of issues created by others11:57
cedkpokoli: that's not what I'm sayin11:59
pokolicedk: so what are you saying? 12:01
cedkthat 99% of contributions are people solving their problems12:03
cedkso 1% are only maintaining12:03
pokolicedk: but anyone contributing is maintaining the software12:09
pokoliif they fix they problem that problem won't be need to be fixed by somebody else 12:10
pokolifor me it is expected that most of the people is solving their own problems. As far as it makes the project better that is good for the project12:11
cedkthis creates only self centered contributions so do not complaint that it is frustating12:14
pokolicedk: If I get frustrated when doing my own contributions how can I start fixing somebody else problems? 12:15
pokoliNobody will start fixing somebody else issues if he can not fix their owns12:15
cedkpokoli: no because you are frustating because you are self-fixing12:18
pokolicedk: my frustration it seems impossible to contribute improvements for requests of our customers12:19
cedkproof is that your arguments against my concerns are "we are using it", "it works for us", "it solved our problem"12:19
cedkpokoli: precisely, you must not contribute requests from your customers12:19
cedkyou must contribute general improvements12:20
pokolicedk: of course we just contribute what we think is generic enought to be used for others12:20
pokolithats why we share the requests on discuss to find if they are generic enought or not.12:21
pokoliOr at least to have a desing that can be reusable latter12:21
pokolifor example. Same customer requested: Salary Scale and Expenses management12:22
pokolicustomer went live 1st of January, we did all the developments from september to december 12:22
pokoliCurrent situation is that we failed to contribute salary scale and I feel frustrated because I will like to have also expenses managemed 12:23
pokoliSo I do not need to reimplement none of them once another customer request them12:23
pokoliAbout I have like 5 customers using custom code because we never managed to find a generic solution for it 12:24
pokoliEach time spent in maintaining custom code is time that we can not invest in mantaining tryton code12:25
pokolithis request is three years old now 12:28
pokoliwe uploaded a review three years ago (and this is what our customers are using and it works) but then it was decided to implement in another way12:31
pokoliwhich was never implemented12:31
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cedkso what?13:07
cedkyou are just complaining that we do not include your stuffs because they are used by your customers13:08
cedkthis happens all the time and for everybody13:08
cedkI have PR pending for 10 years13:09
pokolicedk: and you complain that you are do only one maintaining the code. So what we do? 13:13
pokoliso if we just complain we will never change anything and will never improve13:14
pokolicedk: When someting is required for several customers I understand this is a general improvement13:15
cedkI stop discussing now because this is going nowhere13:16
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pokolicedk: ok, we can stop the discussion here. I will think about it and I will like to continue someday in the future13:16
udono[m]It is so sad to read for me, that you are so frustrated, the way it goes.13:26
udono[m]you both13:27
udono[m]In the moment we are in a time of disturbance, because we changed many parts of our old development tools. Everybody needs to learn a lot new techniques and routines. This takes time, understanding and patience.13:30
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udono[m]But some of the pain points are not new: Maintenance is too much work for one person. Contributions taking too long.13:32
udono[m]For me it looks like one and the same problem, viewed from two sides: maintainence (much work) - contribution (long time).13:38
udono[m]Maybe it is helpful, when we collect ideas how to delegate (parts) of the maintenance work to more people and what measurements would speedup contributions.13:42
udono[m]And maybe it is better to wait some time with the discussion, until more people are getting better practice with the new tool set.13:43
pokoliudono[m]: I think talking is the only way to improve such thinks. Frustation will go, I'm sure 13:48
pokoliudono[m]: I have the feeling that tool set is not rellevant in the discusion. I worked with both new and previous toolset13:49
pokoliBut I must adming that I'm very happy with the new one and I do not want to go back13:50
udono[m]pokoli: yes, Iam also very happy with the new toolset, evolve and topics.17:31
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