IRC logs of #tryton for Wednesday, 2008-11-19 #tryton log beginning Wed Nov 19 00:00:01 CET 2008
dtxOr does it have to be done in the OpenOffice app00:00
yangoon1dtx there is openoffice.interact to do this00:00
dtxbut doesn't that require a running openoffice though?00:00
dtxI need it on server side00:00
yangoon1it is configured in tryton, done by openoffice00:01
yangoon1it works with OO headless00:01
dtxI'll have to read on that00:01
yangoon1AFAIK it doesn't need X00:02
saxaok, thx for now, time to sleep00:03
saxac u soon ppl00:03
yangoon1saxa: bye cu00:03
Timitossaxa: cu00:05
cedkTimitos: I think your first issue, is because you don't put all th eggs in the same directory00:14
cedkTimitos: so easy_install try to download the dev version of Tryton on the website of pypi but it doesn't find it of course :-)00:15
Timitoscedk: ok i understand. but the second issue is still a problem for me00:15
cedkTimitos: The issue for egenix-mx-base, I think it is because the link to download the package from pypi is broken00:15
cedkTimitos: so i think it is a issue from eGenix.com00:16
yangoon1cedk: there are many people asking for differences of openerp - tryton00:16
yangoon1perhaps  should be positioned directly on tryton.org00:17
cedkyangoon1: I can put a temporary link on the Documentation page00:18
dtxor in the FAQ ;-)00:18
yangoon1cedk: yes this would help00:18
yangoon1dtx: the faq is primarily intended as user faq of the client00:19
cedkdtx: yes, the faq page seems the best00:19
cedkjust after "So, why forking?"00:20
CIA-34tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 175:62dcf4ef9f23 website/documentation/faq.t2t: Add link to Tryton_vs_OpenERP on faq page00:21
cedkTimitos: for egenix-mx-base, all is good for our point, it is the link on pypi that is missing00:22
cedkTimitos: I'm going to send a email to egenix com to ask her to fix it00:23
Timitoscedk: great idea00:24
cedkTimitos: otherwise to continue your test, you can install egenix-mx-base with the package manager of you distribution00:25
Timitoscedk: ok i will do so00:26
cedkTimitos: or you can create the egg with the package:
Timitoscedk: i already installed the package.00:33
cedkTimitos: can you keep me inform of your progress with easy_install, like that I could push the change in 1.0 branch00:35
cedkas for udono it seems to work00:36
Timitoscedk: i am still working on it. i have some problems with the parameter -i as udono did00:37
Timitoscedk: i have still a problem with egenix-mx-base. i cannot install egenix-mx-base from distribution as it does not exist for ubuntu 8.04. and i cannot create an egg as it fails with an gcc error.00:53
cedkTimitos: but you say to me that the package name was python-egenix-mxdatetime00:55
Timitoscedk: yes but tryton is still looking for egenix-mx-base00:55
cedkTimitos: do you have this file: /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/egenix_mx_base-2.0.5-py2.5.egg-info00:57
Timitoscedk: no00:58
cedkTimitos: it seems that ubuntu package doesn't put the file for easy_install01:05
Timitoscedk: yes i think so01:05
cedkand I guess that your gcc error is about missing header01:06
cedkso for debian-like, we must wait for the packages from panthera01:06
Timitoscedk: there are many many errors01:06
Timitosi mean with the gcc log01:07
cedkTimitos: you can copy/paste it01:07
Timitoscedk: it was too much for the console. this is what i got:
cedkTimitos: it looks like a cascade error, can you try to have the first line01:11
Timitosi try01:11
Timitoscedk: the beginning:
Timitoscedk: i found a python-egenix-mx-base-dev package. could this be helpful?01:17
yangoon1Timitos: don't seem to be those headers that are  failing01:18
yangoon1Timitos: just searching which ubuntu package contains time.h01:18
pantheraTimitos: err? just install python-egenix-mxdatetime python-egenix-mxtools and be done with it.01:19
cedkyangoon1: it must be glibc01:20
yangoon1then it should be libc6-dev01:20
cedkpanthera: we make a try with easy_install01:20
Timitospanthera: thx. they are both installed. but tryton is still looking for egenix-mx-base. so no help with these packages. i think that we need to use another setup for ubuntu with these packages you mentioned01:21
Timitoscedk: we cannot use the dependency egenix-mx-base for tryton when installing on ubuntu i think01:23
yangoon1Timitos: do you have installed libc6-dev01:23
CIA-34tryton: * r356 /wiki/ Edited wiki page through web user interface.01:23
CIA-34tryton: * r357 /wiki/ Edited wiki page through web user interface.01:23
CIA-34tryton: * r358 /wiki/ Edited wiki page through web user interface.01:23
pantheraif you install with, you need to disable those checks as they don't work on debian systems anywa.01:23
pantheraanyway, even.01:23
CIA-34tryton: * r359 /wiki/ Edited wiki page through web user interface.01:23
cedkpanthera: do you know why on debian/ubuntu python module make with setuptools doesn't provide the egg-info?01:23
CIA-34tryton: * r360 /wiki/ Edited wiki page through web user interface.01:23
CIA-34tryton: * r361 /wiki/ Edited wiki page through web user interface.01:23
CIA-34tryton: * r362 /wiki/ Edited wiki page through web user interface.01:23
pantheracedk: we don't need them, they are useless for us.01:24
Timitoscedk: no i will do it and try again.01:24
cedkpanthera: except for package that doesn't exist yet in debian :-)01:24
cedkTimitos: so on ubuntu if you want to test easy_install, you must install every things with it01:25
pantheracedk: true; however, by definition, all software available is in debian. everything not there doesn't exist :)01:26
cedkpanthera: :-))01:26
cedkpanthera: so we really need to be on debian to exist :-)01:27
Timitoscedk: same error when creating the egg with the new package installed01:27
yangoon1Timitos: but time.h should now be there01:27
cedkyes we must look at the next header missing...01:28
yangoon1Timitos: I think you can cancel your trials01:28
yangoon1finally you will have to install all python modules with easy-install01:28
pantheracedk: of course, yes :) but don't worry.. it will happen soon..01:29
Timitoscedk: yangoon1: for me it is time to go to bed. i have a vast amount of work tomorrow (or better today ;-) )01:29
yangoon1Timitos: next: python2.5-dev01:30
cedkTimitos: ok, me toot01:30
cedkTimitos: by the way on my gentoo, I can build egenix-mx-base-3.1.1 without any problems01:31
cedkgood night everybody01:32
Timitoscedk: yangoon1: the egg build worked!01:32
yangoon1Timitos: ok!01:32
cedkTimitos: great01:32
Timitosso now i get this :-D error: Could not find suitable distribution for Requirement.parse('psycopg2>=2.0')01:33
pantheraACTION off too01:33
Timitoscedk: yangoon1: should we work on this better tomorrow? i would highly appreciate this01:34
yangoon1Timitos: of course01:34
cedkTimitos: ok01:35
yangoon1Timitos: if you want to follow the whole chain with easy_install can take longer time01:35
Timitosyangoon1: ic01:35
Timitoscu tomorrow01:35
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cedric_bCongratulation for the release09:24
udonocedric_b: Thank you09:27
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udonocedric_b: do you try?09:27
cedric_bI'll give a try soon09:29
cedric_bI am curently providing services over OpenERP, but I'al tired of the way the project is managed09:29
udonocedric_b: what you dislike? What can we do better?09:30
udonocedric_b: BTW the channel is logged...09:31
cedric_bMainly because  of the lack of ducumentation for developpers, and the lack of conventions in develepement process09:31
cedric_bIf the developement team of tryton is more open than the openerp's one , i'll probably contribute ;)09:33
udonocedric_b: Documentation is always hard to maintain and actualize. We changed the distributon of documentation. All doc is now inside the packages you download.09:33
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udonocedric_b: we only have a wiki for devel topics09:34
udonocedric_b: and about the devel communications see the
udonocedric_b: we hardly work with direct communication on IRC. On special topics we call IRC conferences. But I don't know if this work fine in future with more participants.09:35
cedric_bI am a Rails developper ,  I found that OpenObject is really far from what i can expect from framework09:36
udonocedric_b: Tryton changed a lot, for an overview show here
cedric_bI am curently reading ;)09:37
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cedric_bevernichon: bonjour Eric09:40
evernichonbonjour ced09:41
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cedric_bThe modules looks clean. It seem it would be less diffucult to contribute09:46
cedric_bcedk: nice job09:48
cedkcedric_b: thanks, it was one of the goal :-)09:48
cedkcedric_b: like putting docstring as much as possible09:48
cedric_bThis was one of suggestion to OpenObejcts ...09:49
cedkcedric_b: and break big into simple function to allow override in any place09:49
cedkFor what I see of OpenObjects, it is just a packing of OpenERP without modules09:50
cedric_bI'll give tryton a try soon. And have a look to the way acoutning works , and if it can be use in france09:51
cedkcedric_b: normally we take care of french accounting09:51
cedkexcept that there is some restrictions that need to be added in a strong way09:52
Timitoscedric_b: there is still some work to do on accounting. we are in the process of optimization09:52
cedric_bOk, if i get enougth time i'll may help09:53
cedric_bBut I am maybe too involved ;)09:53
cedric_b(I mean in too much projects)09:54
cedkcedric_b: the main differences between Tryton accounting and OpenERP accounting are:09:56
cedk- closing fiscalyear without creating new moves09:57
cedk- strong constraint on moves to have every lines with the same date09:57
cedk- allow fiscal period without date for ending process09:58
cedk- double numbering of move (at creation and posting)09:58
cedk- use of template of chart account (but that I think OpenERP take the idea)09:59
cedric_bOk, Have you look at OpenERP 5 ?10:00
Timitoscedric_b: i tried some while before alpha was released. but the trunk was not usable at this time.10:01
cedkI follow the devels10:02
cedric_bSame thing here, it seem that OpenERP 5 will be like 4.2 but with more overriting10:03
cedric_bI expected code cleaning, and good practives to be applied10:03
udonocedric_b: If you are experienced in french accounting, just provide requirements, no code need at all. Our goal is to have a generic accounting module, which is usable in many countrys. All differences between the country requirements will be carried into additional modules...10:05
cedkcedric_b: I don't think it is the goal of OpenERP, it seems it more adding new "alpha" feature10:06
udonocedk: they need to catch SAP, so they have to introduce a lot of additional stuff10:07
cedric_bFor the french accounting , I think Christophe Chauvet did a good job with his module for 4.210:07
udonocedric_b: is it just the chart of accounts and taxes?10:08
udonocedric_b: ... or more requirements of french accounting?10:09
cedric_bChart of account, , VAT declaration printing,  usual reporting as "Bilan" "Compte de resultat" ...10:09
udonocedric_b: ah, ok, balance and income statements. Sounds interesting.10:10
cedric_bhave a look to this
cedric_bThis is hte best french accounting module I've seen10:11
cedkcedric_b: ok, thx10:13
cedric_bGot to work now :) (on obscur openerp code )10:15
udonocedric_b: keep smile, see you10:20
udonocedk: did you already push tryton on pypi?10:21
cedric_bOk i Had a quick look at the wiki, I may be missed something, but i think most important thing is to give a short documentation on : the ORM, the Views, and maybe on things like wizards and report10:25
cedric_b(in order to get modules contributors ;))10:26
cedric_boops found views documentation in sources10:29
udonocedric_b: you find everything in doc/10:29
udonocedric_b: trytond10:29
cedric_bthanks , i just found it10:30
udonocedric_b: ...of course not complete10:30
cedric_bIt is a good starting place, i hope there is enougth to contribute ;)10:31
Timitosudono: cedk and me worked yesterday night on easy_install. there are still some problems. we need to continue our tests today. but i don´t have much time now but later this day.10:31
udonoTimitos: cedk: Iam free today and night...10:32
udonoTimitos: cedk, and I have a Ubuntu installation on my laptop...10:43
cedkudono: no10:57
cedkudono: ok, you  can try the easy_install like you did on gentoo10:58
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cedkTimitos: I have a trick to install egenix-mx-base with easy_install11:04
cedkTimitos: easy_install
cedkTimitos: un gars de egenix m'a répondu normallement ils vont fixer leur page11:07
Timitoscedk: i don´t speak any french :-D except bon jour11:08
gadagaTimitos: ;)11:08
cedkTimitos: oups sorry11:08
cedkTimitos: i receive one email from egenix, they will fix the download page normally11:08
Timitoscedk: great11:09
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CIA-34tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 1021:357bedbe4c91 tryton/ (CHANGELOG Allow egg installation11:43
udonocedk: how many SLOC did the tryton server have?11:48
cedric_bmx-base provided with current debian is not enougth ?11:49
CIA-34tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 1022:6618a92bc90a tryton/ Add extras_require11:50
cedkudono: 12959 SLOC without the xml11:50
cedkcedric_b: yes, it is enough but we try to have Tryton completly installable with easy_install11:51
CIA-34tryton: * r363 /wiki/ Add pyOpenSSL12:24
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cedkTimitos: easy_install of egenix-mx-base works now13:44
Timitoscedk: i will try it again.13:44
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udonocedk: Some questions: works the rights management in general? How deep trytond checks user/group? What about the granularity, can we restrict single records in the database, or tabels/models?14:37
udonocedk: is XMLRPC and Webdav the same secure?14:38
cedkudono: right management is made on models with user's group14:40
udonocedk: ok, thanks14:40
cedkudono: and we can hide records of a model by user's group14:40
udonocedk: this fine granularity tryton have?14:41
cedkudono: OpenERP have implemented also on fields but the current implementation doesn't look good for us14:41
cedkudono: don't understand your last question14:41
udonocedk: we can protect single database recordsß14:42
cedkudono: for xml-rpc and webdav, they use the same right management14:42
cedkudono: yes14:42
cedkudono: but it depends of rules, so you must right a rule for it14:42
udonocedk: what about SSL? Can WebDAV and standard XMLRPC communicate over SSL?14:43
cedkudono: yes14:43
udonocedk: Yes I've seen the rules when I checked the Translation....14:44
udonocedk: and Login? How it works? Is a cleartext password transported?14:44
cedkudono: yes it is cleartext password except if you use SSL connection14:46
cedkudono: but the password is send only once at the login14:46
cedkudono: after that there is a session id14:46
udonocedk: ok, I understand. Sounds very good.14:47
cedkudono: it will possible to have authentication with a challenge but it is some codes to write :-)14:47
udonocedk: another request: Is it possible to change the login mechanism with a module for LDAP or general PAM.14:48
cedkudono: yes like I do in the OpenERP module14:50
udonocedk: ok, verry verry cool14:52
udonocedk: users_ldap14:58
CIA-34tryton: matb roundup * #585/item already translated reappearing as untranslated: I just tested on a brandnew database after update to tip and can confirm, that exactly those items are (re)created once again.15:01
CIA-34tryton: matb roundup * #585/item already translated reappearing as untranslated: JFYI iInstalled modules via -i are: "account" "Buchhaltung" "B2CK" "1.1.0" "" "Installiert" "account_de_skr03_2008" "Deutsc ...15:03
cedkudono: yes it is this module15:04
udonocedk: what a pitty, it doesn't have a py file inside, just a pyc.15:06
cedkudono: check on launchpad15:06
udonofound it:
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Timitoscedk: easy_install works now when i install the packages libc6-dev python2.5-dev and python-psycopg2 from package management of ubuntu15:18
cedkTimitos: great15:19
cedkTimitos: I will push the changes for 1.015:19
CIA-34tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 1255:0a645546a8dc trytond/ (doc/ trytond/ Increase version number15:20
CIA-34tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 1256:1f2b16d290ad trytond/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Allow egg installation working15:20
CIA-34tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 1257:d36b968ccc8f trytond/CHANGELOG: Add missing changelog15:20
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udonocedk: what we can do that the german accounting_de_skr03_2008 chart of accounts is connected to the website? Is the nameing ok?16:21
udonocedk: I will rewrite the setup script fitting for easy_install tonight.16:24
CIA-34tryton: * r364 /wiki/ change order of creating a forest as hg init must be done before creating the .hg/hgrc file for the hgforest extenstion16:24
cedkudono: wait the pakages are not yet on the website16:31
cedkudono: why is there the year number in the name16:32
udonocedk: because they change it every year...16:34
Timitoscedk: there are changes every year. we will provide always the newest version.16:34
udonosoon we will have a 2009 version16:34
Timitoscedk: we are also thinking about updating older versions for later16:34
cedkdon't understand why it must change every year16:35
yangooncedk ask the german government;)16:36
udonoACTION smells the flavour of german bureaucracy...16:36
cedkyangoon: yes that is really strange16:36
cedkand you must always ues the new one16:37
yangooncedk: of course16:37
cedkand what do you do with older account that are removed ?16:38
yangooncedk:  mostly they are not removed, but indeed sometimes they are renamed16:41
yangooncedk: thats why we need history16:41
yangoonsome account in 2006 has other meaning than in 2008, after vat change16:42
cedkdo you know how other software handle this16:45
yangooncedk: the soft I am currently working with has complete different plan per accounting period16:46
yangoonbut it is possible to copy over an old plan and use it for new period16:47
udonolx-office, an german SQL-Ledger fork can handle this partially, too.16:48
yangoonvery partially;)16:48
udonoyangoon: in my workflow it works good... but its hardly simple and customized...16:49
cedkbut  if you create a new chart every year, how can you make planning for the futur before having the new account chart16:49
cedkis there only the name that change ?16:50
yangoonchanges are mostly not heavy, and if they will be, they are published some time ago16:51
Timitoscedk: in this account chart are stored in other applications more informations. there are accounts with automatic tax computation and so on. so in most cases some of these functions will change. this has in the normal run the effect that also the name changes16:52
cedkok, but is there somewhere the rules that the government follow to update the account chart16:52
Timitoscedk: it is an account chart that is created from a company that is owned by many tax advisors together. there are not really rules about that.16:54
Timitoscedk: but we are prepared to find out changes fast.16:55
udonocedk: actully they don't come from the government, but a very strong NGO for tax consultants and advisors.16:56
cedkTimitos: ok, but how can we make a system without knowning what can happen ?16:56
udonocedk, make it modular...16:57
udonoACTION has great ideas...16:57
Timitoscedk: i will try to sum up the possible changes. so i can send it per email. i think this is to much for irc16:57
Timitoscedk: we will also create a module for export all account moves to the application of these tax advisors and this is the main reason to use these charts. i think about 80-90% of all tax advisors in germany are using this application. so this is very important for us.16:59
cedkTimitos: ok, but I try to see how this must work in real life17:05
cedkhow do you handle the change of accounts17:05
cedkand so on...17:05
Timitoscedk: yes. this is the problem of the structure of tryton because it only uses one account chart for all years.17:06
Timitoscedk: perhaps you remember my thoughts about making a check if some account can be used in a special fiscal year17:06
Timitosi think something like this will be needed17:07
Timitoscedk: i think that i would not change the account but creat a new one with the same account number17:07
cedkTimitos: ok but what about fiscal year closing and so on17:09
Timitoscedk: where is the problem of fiscal year closing?17:09
cedkwhat things that can be done is just replace an account with an other one but this is like a one shot17:10
cedkTimitos: there is no more move for the closing, they are computed on the fly17:10
Timitoscedk: yes i know. most changes have to do with accounts of income statement. so this is not so problematic. but i think i will find a working solution also for the other ones.17:12
cedkTimitos: a solution can be the use of the history branch17:13
Timitoscedk: yes good idea!17:14
cedkor handle it with code17:14
cedklike I do with deferrals17:15
Timitoscedk: both is possible. it seems that i am not so cared about this topic than you. i think it is possible to find a good solution.17:21
cedksomething like Properties field but depending of the fiscalyear17:21
yangooncedk: what is the preferred method for remote connection: SSL or VPN?17:26
yangooncedk: what is faster?17:26
udonoyangoon: hardware VPN ;-=17:27
cedkyangoon: for what uses ?17:27
yangoonconnection to remote clients17:27
yangooncedk: employees over internet17:27
yangooncedk: different companies on one database server17:28
cedkyangoon: I guess it is to put Tryton services on the web ?17:29
yangooncedk: yes17:29
cedkyangoon: for good security, I will say use a VPN17:30
cedkbecause to start the connection, you will need first to be authenticated17:31
cedkotherwize any body can connect the Tryton server but not login of course17:31
yangooncedk: thx, exactly what I guessed17:31
Timitoscedk: perhaps we could implement authentication with zertificates for the clients later. so only the client with a valid certificate are accepted on the server.17:34
cedkTimitos: I don't think it is the job of the application server17:36
cedkfor this job the best one is a VPN (like OpenVPN :-)17:36
Timitoscedk: maybe. it was only an idea17:36
CIA-34tryton: htgoebel roundup * #593/progress-windows should block "create database" window: [new] When creating a new database, the progess-window is not coupled to the "create database" window. While one can move around the "create datab ...18:12
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CIA-34tryton: Timitos roundup * #594/vat id prefix - there is something missing: [new] in party formular -> accounting there is only sk available should not be there some more? i have vatnumber not installed18:40
CIA-34tryton: ced roundup * #594/vat id prefix - there is something missing: [chatting] Do you talk about "VAT Country"?18:52
CIA-34tryton: ced roundup * #585/item already translated reappearing as untranslated: Can you put all the process you follow?18:54
CIA-34tryton: Timitos roundup * #594/vat id prefix - there is something missing: yes. sorry. i found out that this field only works with module vatnumber. but i don´t know where those "SK" record comes from. ich think this fi ...18:55
CIA-34tryton: htgoebel roundup * #595/"set as default": value is not usefull/meaningfull: [new] When setting a default value for a field, the "default value" in the "set defautl value" requester is not meaningful. For example when setti ...19:04
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CIA-34tryton: htgoebel roundup * #595/"set as default": value is not usefull/meaningfull/translated: [chatting] For a product, the same is true: if type is German "Dienstleitung", the default value in the requester is "service" (English for Dienst ...20:16
udonocedk: do we have high scale images and logos for tryton?20:19
cedkudono: everything is in the website repository20:34
udonocedk: thanks20:38
cedkudono: otherwise ask bechamel20:39
CIA-34tryton: htgoebel roundup * #596/product view - accounting - taxes are always visable: [new] In the product view, the tabs "supplier" and "customer" are only visible if the product is "buyable" or "sellable" resp. - which is a good t ...20:49
CIA-34tryton: matb roundup * #585/item already translated reappearing as untranslated: 1) create new database with the client from tip 2) /usr/local/tryton/trytond/bin/trytond --config /usr/local/tryton/trytond/etc/trytond.conf.own ...21:29
udonocedk: do you know if bechamel will be online tonight?22:16
cedkudono: don't know22:22
CIA-34tryton: htgoebel roundup * #597/product view - accounting - add tax - all taxes are selected: [new] When adding a tax to a product or product category: In the "search: taxes" requester _all_ entries are selected. This is very confusing, sin ...22:41
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udonocedk: can I send your announcement to and ?22:48
udonocedk: the english announcement22:55
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yangoon1cedk: there is an unresolved link on          [ANSI-SQL]23:26

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