IRC logs of #tryton for Tuesday, 2010-11-09

chat.freenode.net #tryton log beginning Tue Nov 9 00:00:02 CET 2010
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mhi1Hi, is there any documentation related to trytond.conf and tryton.conf? At least there is an example for trytond.conf in the trytond...tar.gz.12:28
cedkmhi1: there is explaination in the file in the tgz12:29
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mhi1in the "client" tgz?12:30
cedkmhi1: no in the server12:30
cedkmhi1: for the client, the configuration is managed in the GUI12:31
cedkACTION bbl12:33
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cedkACTION back13:38
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udonoNew Tryton kid is born. Gratulations!14:18
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phelleranyone successfully used openoffice headless to create pdf's ?15:26
udonopheller: me15:27
paepkepheller, me, too15:28
phellerdoes it work well for you?  have you done any testing to see, for example, how many documents / second it can create?15:28
yangoonpheller: didn't any tests for performance15:29
phellerI have had no luck making it operate on MacOS.... I will spend some more time to try, but so far no luck.15:29
udonopheller: often works well, sometimes not. I did not test the performance.15:29
paepkepheller, well on mass creation i faced a bug where it crashed when adding more than 250 invoices at once.15:30
udonopheller: traceback?15:30
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yangoonpheller: sometimes the point is that you need openoffice-draw and some other packages for pdf15:30
phellerudono: actually, a python binary crash of some sort (can't provide more details right now)15:30
yangoonpheller: and a rather recent version of python-openoffice15:30
phellernext question: can relatorio produce an .ods instead of .odt ?15:31
yangoonpheller: yes15:31
phelleryangoon: ok, then there is possibly another solution.... http://www.jopendocument.org/tutorial_pdf.html15:32
cedkpheller: relatorio yes but I think it needs some hack to work on Tryton15:32
phellercedk: has there been any thought about porting the webkit report creation to tryton?15:33
cedkpheller: no at all15:34
phellercedk: ok15:34
phellerjOpenDocument does not look bad, but it does not yet handle .odt files15:35
udonopheller: look at http://openoffice-python.origo.ethz.ch/issues maybe you find some informations inside15:36
cedkI think it is better to focus on one tool an improve it15:42
cedkOoo seems pretty good because we could implement a lot of other format like doc etc.15:42
pheller>>> import uno.py15:46
phellerFatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?)15:46
phellerAbort15:46
phellerthat's the error I get.15:46
phellergranted, I have not done much troubleshooting.  I just thought I'd ask before I dive into it.15:47
udonopheller: which distribution you use?15:59
udonopheller: do you use virtualenv?15:59
udonopheller: which python version?16:00
cedkpheller: are you using the Python from jhbuild?16:00
udonopheller: Try >>> import uno # without .py16:01
phellerI have tried with jhbuild python (which is built i386 to match pyuno.so)16:06
phellersame error with "import uno" or "import pyuno"16:07
phellersame error when I use the OS distribution pythons (2.5 and 2.6)16:10
phellerit's probably because of: http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=9308416:10
cedkpheller: did you compile pyuno ?16:10
phellerNo, I'm using the NeoOffice distribution, though compiling openoffice is probably the next step.  (UGH)16:11
udonopheller: is uno.py in PYTHONPATH?16:11
cedkpheller: ok this goes in favor of using Ooo as a service instead16:11
phellerI'm running the interpreter from the directory containing pyuno.py and pyuno.so so that I need not alter PYTHONPATH16:12
cedkI think this could be a good idea to get a webservice that make convertion16:12
phelleryes, I'm ok with running Ooo as a service, though how does one submit documents for conversion?16:12
cedkpheller: I don't know very well this code16:13
udonopheller: maybe try something like: export set PYTHONPATH=$PYTHONPATH:/usr/lib/openoffice/basis3.1/program/ && python16:13
phellercedk: ok, I will do some investigation16:13
cedkpheller: but I know there is two possibility to interact with Ooo the one we get and the TCP one16:13
udonocedk: pheller: but the problem seems not related with the communication... it is related to import uno, which does not work.16:14
phellerudono: it doesn't work because pyuno.so is created against the openoffice python version (which is 2.3 or something);  unfortunately, openoffice no longer ships with the actual python executable.16:15
phellerudono: I think the headless tcp server is the way to go... I will investigate that.16:16
udonopheller: ... but you'll need import uno, too, I guess16:17
phellerudono: well, perhaps I can duplicate uno.py, but without the calls to the compiled C routines16:18
udonopheller: in my OOO uno seems not dependend to the internal Python.16:20
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Red15i wonder, does tryton support 2% cash payment discounts ?17:21
Red15with the correct fiscal booking etc17:21
cedkRed15: no17:40
Red15so how would you solve it then ?17:40
cedkRed15: I don't know17:42
Red15you know what the 2% problem is ?17:42
Red15you are belgian too right ?17:42
cedkRed15: yes17:42
Red15ok, cause i'm like 99% there on openerp17:42
Red15but seems it's just doing something weird in one borderline case17:43
cedkRed15: I think there is many possibility depending of which kind of move you want to generate etc.17:43
cedkbecause there is difference between discount and rebate17:45
cedkand how you write the move for it17:45
cedkRed15: by the way, I think this functionality should be writen in a way that it handles more than just payment discount17:46
Red15ofcourse, i've used nothing but regular taxes cedk17:46
Red15no custom code17:46
Red15well the only thing i have done is use a fiscal position to remap taxes from the regular kind to the 2% discount kind17:47
Red15and then I made on the payment_terms a possibility to swap fiscal positions depending on the payment term17:47
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cedkRed15: I don't see why you talke about taxes18:15
cedkRed15: could you write an example of account moves?18:16
Red15because a big part of the 2% rule is you can deduct 2% from being taxed18:16
Red15so if you have invoice 100€18:16
Red15default tax is 21€18:16
Red15but with 2% discount you can deduct 2% from base amount and then calculate 21%18:16
Red15so 98€ + (21% of 98€) = 120.58€18:17
cedkRed15: ok18:17
cedkRed15: but how is it on accounting move18:18
cedkRed15: you get one with 121.00 €18:18
cedkand then you create a second one because the customer paid on time18:18
Red15i use payment terms for those, 98% is due in 7 days18:19
Red15balance in 30 days18:19
Red15then when reconciling you just pick the 98% accounting line if he payed in time, or combine 98% + balance if he payed full amount after 7 days18:20
cedkRed15: but you still get the last amount unreconciled18:20
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Red15then you have to do the usual bookings to make it "go away"18:21
Red15(fyi: not an accountant here)18:21
Red15and actually accounting move exists of 3 lines for me18:21
Red15one with 2€ (free of tax declaration)18:22
Red15one with 98% (tax field 03)18:22
Red15one with 20.58 (tax field 54)18:22
cedkRed15: ok but it doesn't work if you get difference taxes18:22
Red15it sort of does, you have to use plenty of remapping18:24
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cedkRed15: even without that, you need to create one move that reversal the unreconciled moves and the taxes18:25
Red15why the taxes? only the 2% discount that the partner was to late for has to be "reversed"18:27
cedkand I think it should go in a special account for reducetion18:27
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cedkRed15: yes the reduced taxed part18:27
Red15ok, but putting it in a special account is not hard, but it depends (slight) per accounting schema18:28
Red15but it's easy to alter in my setup18:28
cedkRed15: I already thought about this and I think that we should extend the payment terms to manage the reductions etc.18:29
cedkRed15: yes the account can be defined on the company18:29
cedkso if it is how you did in OpenERP, you can do the same in Tryton18:30
Red15cedk, like i said, i've made a small addon which allows payment term to switch out one fiscal position for anothe18:30
cedkand with some codes it can become a module that implement this functionality completly18:30
Red15and when the fiscal position changes, you can make a fiscal position like "National (2% cash payment)"18:31
cedkRed15: I don't see why?18:31
Red15because 2% payment term can also apply to intra-communautaire18:31
Red15or even export18:31
cedkRed15: so you need to know before creating invoice if the customer will paid on time or not18:31
Red15and you not only have 2%, you also have 3% and 4%18:31
Red15cedk, that's a payment term no ?18:32
Red15with payment term you set before you receive your money18:32
cedkRed15: the rules yes, but what happens if the customer doesn't respect the delay and you need to get full payement without 2%18:32
Red15for tax reports it doesn't change anything18:33
cedkRed15: so you need to wait to get payment before creating invoice18:33
cedkRed15: it is not very common, generaly customer wants to have invoice before making payment18:33
Red15cedk, payment terms will split it into 2 account.move.line that are due : one for 98% other for 2%18:34
Red15when customer pays in time, you reconcile his payment with the 98% line, and all is ok18:34
cedkRed15: yes so you still miss the 2% on taxes18:35
Red15if customer doesnt pay in time, you want to reconcile his payment with 98% + 2% line18:35
Red15cedk, it's perfectly legal (only here in belgium afaik)18:35
cedkRed15: yes but the taxes report must be adapted to deduce 2% if he pays on time18:35
cedkRed15: I think it will be simplier with a small schema18:36
cedkACTION bbl18:36
TimitosRed15: we have such a module18:36
TimitosRed15: but it is for 1.4 only for the moment18:37
TimitosRed15: i will publish it on intuxication. so you can check if it works for you18:37
Timitosi think we did it quite similar to your ideas18:38
Red15Timitos, don't spend too much time on it18:43
Red15i'm not running tryton, was just seeing if there was a solution in this camp :)18:43
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phellerSo I did manage to get openoffice running in headless server mode on Mac OS, and successfully used JODConverter to have openoffice convert odt to pdf..... Unfortunately, it seems uno is still required to do it from python, so I'll have a look at writing an uno duplicate that doesn't require the C routines in pyuno.so19:06
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Red15cedk, turns out discounts are simpler than i though21:56
Red15*t21:56
Red15you have to calculate 21% on 98% of the total amount due, but you have to book 100% to tax code 0321:57
Red15the only problem i now have is that 2% discount should be calculated on the base amount, not the tax21:59
Red15so 100€ gives 2€ discount, not 2.41€ (which is 2% of 120.58)21:59
cedkRed15: I don't know if it is simplier :-)22:12
Red15cedk, it's only to show the amount the customer can subtract from the total invoice amount22:13
cedkRed15: where did you get that information?22:13
Red15looked it up with my gf who's an accounting wiz :)22:13
cedkRed15: so now we should check that it is the same on other countries22:15
Red15most likely not though22:15
Red15i know for a fact it's different in the netherlands22:15
cedkRed15: we could ask on the mailing list22:15
Red15but why should it matter ?22:16
Red15l10n_be could incorporate all this22:16
Red15and should have 0 effect on other localizations22:16
Red15cedk, or doesn't tryton use localization modules ? ;-)22:16
cedkRed15: there is no l10n_be22:17
cedkRed15: we thought that almost all features should be generic22:17
cedkso we try to create a module per feature22:18
Red15cedk, what about parametrization then ?22:18
Red15cedk, you will have a set of parameters per country so i don't see why you should try and stay clear of using something like l10n_be22:18
cedkso in this case it could end by creating a module like account_invoice_discount_payment_term22:19
Red15not saying it has to be seperate modules, maybe you could make a somewhat bigger module which contains all the profiles and sets whichever one you select during install22:19
Red15cedk, apart from the invoice layout changes (which I'm yet to program) i don't see what the module should contain22:19
cedkRed15: what do you name parameters?22:19
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Red15cedk, the taxes that should be created, like VAT 21%  and VAT 21% with 2 % discount22:20
Red15and what about 19% for the netherlands ?22:20
cedkRed15: this is done in account_be22:20
Red15and 14.5% (?) for the uk22:20
Red15so i think it's easiest to extend account_be then22:20
cedkRed15: and later in account_nl22:20
Red15if you don't use the discounts you could deactivate the taxes ?22:20
Red15do you also have a configuration wizard when you install account_be ?22:21
cedkRed15: I still don't understand why you're talking about taxes?22:21
Red15because these discounts in belgium have everything to do with taxes22:21
cedkRed15: for now there is none because there is nothing to do22:21
cedkRed15: but you just said that it doesn't affect the tax22:22
Timitoscedk: as i posted before. i have a working module for cash discount for tryton. but it is for 1.4 for the moment. if there is any interest i can push it on intuxication.22:22
Red15no it does, but not like i expected it22:22
Red15Timitos, what country ?22:22
TimitosRed15: germany22:23
Red15Timitos, how does it work ? take example for an invoice of 100€22:23
yangooncedk: are you ok with the publishing of the news for bugfix releases?22:23
cedkyangoon: could we wait one more day?22:23
yangooncedk: np, just for curiosity: why?22:24
TimitosRed15: it allows to show the reduction on invoice and when the customer pays with reduction you will be able to do the necessary reduction move when you enter the payment22:24
Red15Timitos, but how does legislation work for germany ?22:25
Timitosit is not the right way to reduce the amount on invoice creation. it must be reduced on payment22:25
TimitosRed15: in germany you must reduce the tax too as you mentioned above22:25
Red15Timitos, but only on the non-taxed amount right ?22:25
cedkyangoon: to let the release news get his time :-)22:25
Red15Timitos, so 100€ - 2€ = 98€ (then take tax on 98€)22:26
TimitosRed15: yes22:26
yangooncedk: understood;)22:26
Red15Timitos, so then you have 100€ + tax on 98€22:26
TimitosRed15: no22:26
cedkTimitos, Red15: why not creating a sheet on google docs like I did for stock accounting?22:27
Timitosfirst you have tax on 100 and when the customer pays with reduction you have to reduce the tax so that it is the tax amount on 98 after the payment process22:27
cedkI think it will clarify the discussion22:27
Timitoscedk: i think this already exists. just a moment22:27
TimitosRed15: cedk: http://tryton.origo.ethz.ch/wiki/implementierung_skonto22:28
Red15Timitos, cedk , maybe to clarify, for me it's more about discounts on single payments22:29
cedkTimitos: looks good22:31
cedkRed15: I don't understand22:31
cedkRed15: is the account moves are like you expect for Belgium22:32
cedkTimitos: and you said that you have the code for this module?22:33
Timitoscedk: yes. we have it in production22:33
cedkTimitos: why don't you put the cash discount condition on payment term?22:34
Timitoscedk: i do not remember well what i wrote :P i did it in the final version22:34
Red15the problem is I have a deadline to finish this by tomorrow22:35
Red15so can't really explain in a lot of detail as i have to finish invoice layout and such22:35
cedkTimitos: and did you modified amount_to_pay ?22:36
Timitoscedk: yes.22:37
cedkTimitos: and also pay_invoice ?22:37
cedkRed15: ok22:37
cedkRed15: but I will be happy to continue on this topic later to be sure that we could have a generic module from Timitos that fit also in Belgium (and probably other countries)22:38
cedkTimitos: it looks good22:39
cedkTimitos: what is your plan with this module?22:39
Timitoscedk: i will push the module and then we can use it as a base for a generic module22:39
Timitoscedk: if you want to integrate it into the core it would be great22:39
cedkTimitos: as a module for sure22:40
cedkIt is a common needs (not for every company)22:40
Timitosgreat22:40
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Red15btw cedk, when's your tweet coming about license change on spiff-gtkwidgets ? :D22:42
cedkRed15: saw your talk on #openobject22:43
Timitoscedk: http://mercurial.intuxication.org/hg/account_invoice_cash_discount22:43
cedkRed15: as I already said it is not the first time and I think it will not be the last one :-)22:44
Timitoscedk: it is one of my early modules. so some code optimization may be necessary22:44
Red15cedk, you did not see my last tweet22:44
Red15cedk, check this http://code.google.com/p/spiff-gtkwidgets/issues/detail?id=922:44
cedkRed15: yes22:46
cedkRed15: as you see when talking to upstream things go smoother22:46
Red15cedk, just jesting with you22:46
cedkRed15: no problem but I know well the guys at OpenERP and how they work ;-)22:47
cedkTimitos: I see that you put an account on payment term22:48
cedkTimitos: what is the puporse?22:48
Red15cedk, yes i'm not saying they are perfect and flawless but i do still think they deserve a bit of respect for what they have gained in traction22:48
Red15cedk, and tbh i find your openerphell a bit below the belt22:49
Red15cedk, you don't earn respect by bashing your competition22:49
cedkRed15: it is not my openerphell22:50
Timitos(18:27:35) cedk: and I think it should go in a special account for reducetion. this is what you wrote and this is what it does22:51
cedkTimitos: ok but do you think it should be on term and not on company?22:51
udonoACTION so cedk is it not... who could it be?22:52
Red15cedk, i find that hard to believe or disprove, openerphell is hidden quite well at first glance, but both you and openerphell tweet account are the only accounts in my list that have same logo :)22:52
cedkRed15: I have no logo on tweeter22:53
Red15oh wait, i correct, anthony lesuisse also has default tweet icon :)22:53
Red15but i doubt he'll be behind openerphell :)22:53
cedkRed15: I'm not and I never hide when I want to talk about something22:54
Timitoscedk: i think it should be also possible to have it on company22:54
cedkTimitos: I got a quick look at the module, I think the concept is good but we could improve the code by reducing22:54
cedkTimitos: It should override the amount_to_pay method22:55
Timitoscedk: this is what i said. it is a module on my early stages22:55
cedkTimitos: and I think the create_move_cash_discount method could be simplified by just duplicate the invoice move, switch debit/credit and multiply by %22:56
cedkRed15: could you just check at the account move on the wiki and confirm if it is correct for Belgium22:56
Red15the problem is the wiki does not say anything about which amounts go to which tax fields22:57
cedkRed15: you mean tax code?22:57
Red15uh yes, sorry22:57
TimitosRed15: if you need to use different tax fields we need to define a kind of tax rule system for that22:58
cedkRed15: so it must be different code then for the invoice?22:58
Timitoscedk: not in germany22:58
Red15Timitos, cedk, not a different tax field, just need to know how much was put in each tax field22:58
Red15tax code*22:58
cedkTimitos: not sure, I think about a new field on tax like we get for invoice/refund22:59
cedkRed15: ok so it is the same tax code22:59
Timitoscedk: could be also a solution.22:59
TimitosRed15: sounds like it is possible with my module23:00
Red15cedk, not saying belgian bookings might not be that much different23:01
Red15cedk, but cannot confirm it's the same without those numbers23:01
cedkI guess it will be reduce the tax base and also the tax code23:02
Timitoscedk: meister from intuxication just moved the repo to the tryton section23:04
cedkThat's what I mean by duplicate the invoice move23:05
cedkTimitos: we should ask then to clean up some old module there23:06
udonocedk: Timitos: reduction of taxbase I had done in one of my former projects Lx-office. Sorry just a geman lang paper: http://wiki.lx-office.org/index.php?title=Skonto maybe Timitos knows if it is the right way?23:06
cedkRed15: can you confirm that the reduction move should have the same tax base and tax code but inverted23:07
Timitoscedk: i do not know which modules could be deleted. how should we do this?23:07
cedkTimitos: all the _xx which was for translation23:08
Timitosudono: i think the module works like it is mentioned in your link23:08
Timitoscedk: so they are no more needed?23:08
cedkTimitos: no23:08
Red15cedk, no, reduction is without tax23:08
Timitoscedk: ok. i will create a list and send them to meister23:09
cedkRed15: so it doesn't affect the tax report23:09
cedkRed15: this mean that you will need to pay the VAT for an amount greater23:09
cedkTimitos: thx23:10
cedkTimitos: if they want, they can just remove it from the tryton folder23:10
Timitoscedk: ok23:11
cedkRed15: or is it only the tax base but the tax code should be decreased23:11
cedkTimitos: could we edit the wiki page to add tax code and base23:11
Timitoscedk: create an account and give me your username. i will add you to the project23:12
cedkTimitos: it should be cedrickrier23:15
cedkTimitos: but I did not yet receive email23:15
Timitoscedk: so it seems that we have to wait for a moment. i got: user not exists23:17
cedkTimitos: ok anyway, it becomes late23:18
Timitoscedk: i agree :-)23:18
cedkwe will continue the talk tomorrow23:18
Timitosgreat. cu tomorrow23:19
-!- digitalsatori(~tony@116.233.242.67) has joined #tryton23:49

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