IRC logs of #tryton for Friday, 2011-02-04

chat.freenode.net #tryton log beginning Fri Feb 4 00:00:02 CET 2011
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cedkmarc0s: hi, I see that you're going to FOSDEM09:38
cedkmarc0s: bechamel and me are going also09:38
marc0scedk: yes!09:43
marc0scedk: i'm arriving there this evening, hoping to be there for the beer event :)09:44
cedkmarc0s: we go tomorrow09:44
marc0scedk: ok I still have to check the talks i want to attend... there are too many :D09:48
cedkmarc0s: me too09:49
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cedkmarc0s: if you want we can meet eachother ?10:07
marc0scedk: sure! sorry just a bit busy at the office :)10:07
cedkmarc0s: I will getmy laptop there so I will connect from time to time here :-)10:07
marc0scedk: fine10:08
cedkmarc0s: also I will wear my tryton T-shirt but it will be too cold to see it :-)10:09
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marc0scedk: haha :D10:09
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marc0scedk: you'll have to put it over your pullover :P10:10
Lo-lan-doOr wave it as a flag.10:10
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cedkpredatell: I created a russian mailing list12:46
cedkpredatell: http://groups-ru.tryton.org/12:46
cedkpredatell: I subscribe you as manager ?12:46
btQuarkwhy do i have to create a new numbersequence for every year if there are templates that offer ${year}?12:48
cedkbtQuark: you can reuse the sequence of the previous year12:49
cedkbtQuark: if you want12:49
btQuarki've tried just selecting and loading the already created sequence anyhow it (1.6) shows me an error message, that i'ld need to create a new sequence for every year12:50
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cedkbtQuark: which sequence and which error message?12:56
btQuarkcedk its the "geschäftsjahre" mask and there the "numbersequences" tab giving me "for different business years of a company you need to create a different number sequence for buchungsfestschreibungen"13:01
btQuarkwhich is bad when i want to use a year templated number13:01
cedkbtQuark: ok so you said that you can use the same counter but with a different prefix for accounting ?13:03
btQuarki'ld like to use the same number-sequence as i thought that when i am able to use "${year}-${month}-" as prefix it would build me taxcorrect different continuing number every year13:05
cedkbtQuark: don't understand13:06
btQuarkin my last business support system i had the possibility to create one templated number sequences that would be used everywhere based on the templates13:07
btQuarkso for outgoing bills i'ld use R${year}-${month}-number and get R2011-02-0002 for example13:08
btQuarkor R2008-02-099913:08
cedkbtQuark: ok but could you have this kind of sequence:13:09
btQuarkwhich i think is pretty usefull and does not require me to set up mostly duplicated sequences13:09
cedk2010-12-0002; 2011-12-0003; 2010-12-000413:09
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cedkfor accounting13:09
btQuarksure, but it does not allow using such things13:10
cedkbtQuark: as far as I know, it is not allow in many countries13:10
btQuarko_O13:10
btQuarknobody ever complained here - its what you see in quite some bills coming in13:10
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btQuarkand even if i was just to use one strict number sequence such as Rxxxx there would be absolutely no reason to create new number sequence every year13:11
cedkbtQuark: in many countries, numbering of invoices must follow a strict sequence per fiscal year13:12
cedkbtQuark: so if you use the same sequence for two fiscal years you get some kind of hole like my previous example13:12
btQuarkhm, i get that point13:13
cedkbtQuark: stop switching name :-)13:17
cedkbtQuark: you must know that you can still create accounting document for the previous year13:18
cedkbtQuark: per example, now you could create an invoice with the numbering of 201013:18
btQuarksorry for the noise cdk - i just needed to group some of my nicks to my account name with nickserv, and he only accepts nicks that are active :|13:20
btQuarkcedk hm, i think it get the idea13:20
btQuarkits a little anoying yet understandable13:20
cedkbtQuark: if you can have this kind of series for account move, tell me we will change the code13:23
cedkbtQuark: or we can make a module to remove the constraint13:23
btQuarkcedk that would be a nice idea, i am currently complete in the state of user, so i am not able to do that myself13:23
btQuarki suppose a "clone numbersequence from x with new name" would be just as good13:24
btQuarkin the selection window some button like "clone with a new name"13:24
yangoonbtQuark: just dupicate the sequence13:24
btQuarkquestion is: how13:24
btQuarki just found a "new" button that makes ne recreate it13:25
yangoonbtQuark: look in the menu: form/duplicate13:25
yangoonbtQuark: you can also duplicate all sequences of one year, adjust the name and you are done13:26
btQuarkintresting. i needed to switch to admin-number sequences for that and still need to change the name by going into that13:26
btQuarkinteresting13:27
cedkyangoon, btQuark: I don't think because you will have strange increment13:28
btQuarkwhy?13:29
yangoon cedk ?, I use it every day13:29
btQuarkduplicating was possible13:29
btQuarki do like the consistent and nice presence of keyboard shortcuts :)13:30
btQuarksomehow feels like the comfortable curses interface on our wawi from the 90ies - haven't found such a nice and functional one until now again13:30
btQuarka pity that it died from embedded code bomb13:31
cedkyangoon: if you duplicate a sequence, the new sequence will start at the same numbering, so if you use the first one, you could have collision13:32
cedkyangoon: you must reset the next number13:33
yangooncedk: didn't encounter that behavior so far, but have to control13:33
cedkyangoon: and be sure you get a different prefix13:33
yangooncedk: if it is hardcoded, yes13:33
btQuarkthats why i'ld like to use the ${year} prefix13:34
cedkbtQuark: it is a way to not make mistake when duplicating13:36
cedkbtQuark: but you must have a new counter for each year13:36
cedkbtQuark: as I guess you are not allow to have hole in the series13:37
yangooncedk: you are right, next number must be reset13:37
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btQuarkcedk might be13:38
btQuarkthe number currently is not that big a problem, as i am just setting everything up13:39
btQuarkanyhow i'ld argue it would be ok to just continue the number sequence with a different year prefix13:39
cedkbtQuark: so you agree on this series: 2010-12-0002; 2011-12-0003; 2010-12-000413:41
btQuarkhm. ok, strike the month13:44
btQuarkthat may look strange13:45
btQuarki thought of something like 2010-988 2011-98913:45
btQuarkhm.13:45
btQuarkyou may have a point there cedk13:45
yangoonbtQuark: it is simply not correct, at least for Germany13:45
btQuarkyangoon yup, looks strange to me now too13:46
cedkyangoon: so for now, the constraint has meaning for Germany13:48
yangooncedk: absolutely13:48
btQuarknow need to understand how to create my desired kontenplan for my test instance14:10
btQuarki'ld like to start with something way smaller than skr03 to try how tryton fills my accounts14:10
btQuarkand what kind of magic aside from fully handdriven double accounting there is14:11
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SeyZhi o/16:27
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btQuarkhm, the accounting module is somewhat strange17:19
btQuarkhas quite some more journals than i am used to17:19
btQuarkand editing the name of a konto by doubleklick from the konten-form and then ctrl-l to change the view does not seem to work to much better either17:20
btQuarkplus tryton always remaximizes which is quite anoying when used in the splitscreen-mode of windows 717:20
btQuarkand shouldn't i normally have one main journal where all entries are, including their accounting record?17:22
btQuarkto be able to reconstruct the single accounts from that journal any given time?17:22
btQuarkand not one expense, earning, storage and cash journal?17:23
btQuarki mean i might get the cash journal as kassenbuch, but i do not quite get the separation of expense and earnings?17:23
cedkbtQuark: so which journals do you expect to have?17:44
btQuarki'ld expect one main journal, maybe a cash journal, and thats about it17:44
btQuarkas i am used to be able to reconstruct all accounts from the main journal17:44
cedkbtQuark: I don't understand17:44
btQuarkthe main journal contains all records such as date, from account, to account(s), amount(s) and numbers17:45
btQuarkyou enter your stuff there first, and after that put into the accounts17:45
cedkbtQuark: what is the utility of having just one journal17:46
cedkbtQuark: better to have any17:48
btQuarkyou have one location that keeps the entire timeline of your accounting and are able to reconstruct all accounts...17:48
btQuarki rather dont get the point of having many...17:49
cedkbtQuark: it is informatic, journal are paper. You can have all account move from the table account_move17:50
cedkbtQuark: there is only one location where the account move are stored17:50
cedkbtQuark: journal is just to show you a subset17:51
btQuarkah, ok.17:57
cedkbtQuark: by the way, there is the GL report to show you everything17:57
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btQuarki have reports -> journal general (allgemein) there17:59
cedkbtQuark: against which software are comparing Tryton accounting?18:00
btQuarkone proprietary product from the dos era, cao faktura (some windows software), and zero for pure double entry accounting18:02
btQuarkhttp://www.zero-buchhaltung.de/ actually one quite likable accounting-piece of software18:05
btQuarkquite a pity that it is non multi-user capable in terms of concurrent access18:05
udonobtQuark: BTW. Looking the screenshot of http://www.zero-buchhaltung.de/ . In tree (left) are folders called "Eingangsrechnungen", "Ausgangsrechnungen", "Bank", "Kasse". This is the same concept as journals in Tryton.18:14
btQuarkah, now i get the idea18:17
btQuarki would probably not have named it a journal as journal is linked to that accounting book used to reconstruct all operations for me18:18
udonobtQuark: as cedk said: journal is just to show you a subset18:18
btQuarkis there a place where i can see the entire journal?18:18
udonobtQuark: (2011-02-04 17:57:44) cedk: btQuark: by the way, there is the GL report to show you everything18:19
btQuarki'll see if i find such a thing in the translation overview18:20
udonobtQuark: When you are asking in the english channel, it is better to have the english translation in Tryton activated.18:21
btQuarkudono is there a way to switch the language fast?18:22
btQuarki've got the translations tab from the system administration menu open here18:23
udonobtQuark: http://code.google.com/p/tryton/wiki/UserFAQ#How_to_change_the_language?18:23
btQuarkanyhow it does not match something for gl18:23
udonobtQuark: general ledger18:24
btQuarkah18:25
btQuarkseems to translate to "kontenblätter"18:26
btQuarkand i wonder how i can output reports on the server side instead of client side18:29
btQuarkthe gl report looks nice :)18:30
btQuarkseems like using openoffice is not the worst of all ideas - anyhow i've seen systems that were using latex and the results looked excellent. although it probably is a huge pain to design new reports18:32
btQuarkhm, maybe "jornal allgemein" is more of the gl report18:33
cedkbtQuark: as to de chan18:44
cedkbtQuark: ask to de chan18:45
btQuarki've tried them, maybe it helps someone who will google for it, when finding the irc logs18:45
btQuarkhow much did you divert from openerp6? would it be an idea to use their documentation to understand trytons ideas?18:53
btQuarkhttp://doc.openerp.com/v6.0/book/index.html#books-link18:54
btQuarkthat one actually looks rather complete18:54
btQuarkhow can i reactivate an account once it is deactivated? do i need to reinsert it from the template?19:00
cedkbtQuark: make a search with active = False19:01
cedkbtQuark: and then you can check the active box19:01
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btQuarkah, i used detailed search and it works fine :)19:03
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plantianDid anything ever happen with the Better Search Gui ?19:37
cedkplantian: bechamel is working on it19:40
cedkplantian: he started to integrate it in the client19:41
plantianHe hasn't responded to the thread since December.19:43
plantiancedk: Has he worked on it since then ?19:43
cedkplantian: I think19:52
cedkbechamel: ping20:05
cedkplantian: I will see tomorow bechamel at FOSDEM, so we will talk about this20:05
plantiancedk: okay sounds goods20:06
cedkplantian: I would like to have this change for 2.020:07
cedkplantian: but there is a lot of corner case to fix20:07
cedkby the way, I got an almost working merge of list and tree20:10
cedkwith DnD and children creation etc.20:10
plantiancedk: Yeah, it would be nice.  I am using what I wrote now but it has no graphical helpers and does not utilize knowledge of tryton models.20:10
cedkplantian: not sure to understand20:11
cedkplantian: are you talking about search or tree/list view?20:13
plantiancedk: Sorry no that was about search, I will just talk to bechamel about it eventually.20:14
cedkplantian: I already ask him that when he will get something testable to upload it on codereview20:16
plantiancedk: You mean children creation in place?  That will be helpful.  And drag and drop to re-order?20:21
plantiancedk: Like to organize locations or categories ?20:21
cedkplantian: yes20:22
cedkplantian: children creation will be with DnD or by editing the children field by switching to form20:23
udonocedk: I am ready to test ;-)20:24
plantiancedk: That sounds good.  When you say you "merged" list and tree.  You mean the flat lists of stuff now will use the same view as trees implementation wise whereas they do not now?  I feel you mentioned this a long time ago.20:27
cedkplantian: yes20:29
cedkplantian: I will drop in the client all the folder tryton/gui/window/view_tree/20:29
cedkso there will be non need to define view_type on act_window20:30
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plantiancedk: Sounds good, so it will be all under form.20:32
cedkplantian: except board20:34
cedkI will need to change also the menu20:34
plantianYeah I saw board, I also have no idea what that is, but integrating tree into form makes a lot of sense.  I'm assuming that is left over from pre-fork.  So much stuff has been removed and cleaned up the code has gotten so much better.20:37
cedkplantian: indeed merging tree and list was a plan of fp (CEO of OpenERP)20:41
cedkI talked with him 4 years ago about that20:41
cedkand he said that it was the goal since the begining of TinyERP client20:41
plantianI think I tried to understand these the first month I started using tryton and was really confused, tree/list/board.20:41
cedkbut it was separated at first because too difficult and they needed tree fast20:42
plantiancedk: Yeah, it is hard to balance business and design.  Was openerp ever able to merge them ?20:42
cedknow I think OE will never do it because they have now the grappy groupby functionnality20:42
plantiancrappy? or grappy?20:43
cedkplantian: oops crappy20:44
plantianYeah it seems that they continual have too many features.20:46
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bechamelplantian: as cedk said I started to integrate the top-down parser in the client21:25
bechamelplantian: the completion works (with a little bug) and the domains are generated correctly for AND OR > < IN (ex: "State: Open, waiting" creates [('state', 'in', ['open', 'waiting'])]21:27
plantianbechamel: Did you see my questions/comments/suggestions on list ?21:27
bechamelplantian: still need work: convert value (ex: [('amount', '=', 1 )] instead [('amount', '=', "1" )], same for boolean and other non-string21:28
bechamelplantian: let me re-read it21:28
plantianYou must determine record and then column type for that record's column right?  How do you do that ?21:29
plantianbechamel: This is last update I saw -- http://codereview.appspot.com/3536042/21:30
bechamelplantian: not sure to understand but: the client already now the model we are working on and all the details about the fields21:31
plantianbechamel: Right, I guess it was hard for me to determine field type for relations, like categories.name for a record that has a many2many with Category called categories.21:32
bechamelplantian: yes, this is the last code i did upload21:32
bechamelplantian: yes, for relations I think it will be necessary to trigger an rpc to fetch extra info21:34
plantianbechamel: It seems there are many assumptions which are made about the text that might cause collisions.  Is implicit rec_name still supported?21:38
bechamelplantian: about "I think this should be quoted if you want to search for the combined string or separate by commas if you want to search by each separate word. " > my goal is that the parser try his best to "guess" stuffs and if he does not the user can add extra quotes or parenthesis21:39
bechamelplantian: yes21:39
bechamelplantian: as long as there are no ":" then the query is made against rec_name21:40
plantianSo implicit searches must occur before things such as Name: Julian Paul Assange, or else it becomes ambiguous.21:40
bechamelplantian: why ? "Name: julian paul assange"  seems clear that we must search on the name field, no ?21:41
plantianWhat if it was Type: Stockable Hammer , I guess I would expect Hammer to search rec_name. But it must be Hammer Type: Stockable.21:43
bechamelplantian: no, it will search on "stockable hammer", except if hammer is a field on the current model21:44
bechamelplantian: actually I'm wrong, there are no problem at all if there are no other ":"21:46
plantianHa it is hard to talk about search when I am not sure how search is supposed to work.21:47
bechamelplantian: the ambiguity appears with "Name: John Total Amount: 10"21:47
bechamelplantian: in this case if I search for someone who is called "John Total" (and if there is a fiedl "Total Amount") I need to add extra quotes to remove the ambuguity21:48
plantianOkay, yeah I don't think you understood my prior example but I think it might not come up often.21:49
plantianbechamel: Do you autocomplete field names?21:49
bechamelplantian: yes21:50
bechamelplantian: (I just re-read your example), in this case two solution search for "Hammer Type: Stockable"21:50
bechamelor "Type:Stockable (Hammer)" or Type:Stockable and Hammer21:51
plantianbechamel: What do you think about moving the field token to the front of the field names so that autocomplete is easier?21:53
plantianbechamel: okay about embedded implicit search21:53
bechamelplantian: you means ":type stockable" ?21:54
plantianYes, because then autocomplete can mostly start as soon as : is typed.21:54
plantianSo I can type : and then see a list of all field names.21:55
bechamelplantian: currently autocomple start as soon as I type the first letter, and the fields name are visible to the user, they are the columns title of the list21:56
plantianHow do you know if it is field or more words for value of prior field ?21:57
bechamelplantian: I just propose completions, the user choose what he wants21:59
udonobechamel: plantian: I ask me if it is not more easy to separate a field name in any case. like :Name: John Total :Amount: 1022:03
plantianbechamel: The examples seem to end a partially typed field name with :.22:03
udono... or even :Name: John :Total Amount: 1022:04
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bechamelplantian, udono: imo it's less user-friendly22:05
plantianI think if fields start with : though then the autocomplete can fill field name spaces with dashes.  Such as :first-name, :last-name.22:05
plantianThere won't be need for additional terminator.22:05
udonoplantian: correct22:06
bechamelplantian: it's easier to implement, but it will look awkward, especialy to non-power user22:06
bechamelcurrently it's also possible to do  "last name": gates "first name": bill22:08
plantianbechamel: I think we can assume users are above regular google users.  We might lose power and add complexity by trying to make the syntax too flexible.22:08
plantianbechamel: Did you see my code ?  It doesn't even try autocomplete yet just parsing and making domain.22:09
udonobechamel: that's good. For me its equal if I use " or :22:09
bechamelIMO the implicit rec_name will cover 90% of the search, the next 9% will be covered by a unique field:value search, and the last 1% is left for people that know () AND and OR22:10
bechamelplantian: yes I saw it, but I don't like the in?, ilike?, etc22:11
bechamelplantian: maybe I'm wrong but it's not possible to parse "wrong but fixable" queries22:12
plantianIt allows for additional operators to be used and extended.  Although I think it might be better to move ? to front there as well so operator can be autocompleted based on field.22:12
bechamelplantian: like "foo and ( bar or" -> implicit )22:12
bechamelplantian: or 'foo "and  bar or' -> implicit " at the end22:13
bechamel.. with pyparsing22:13
plantianbechamel: Yeah maybe.  That is implementation problem though, I don't think it has to do with syntax.22:14
bechamelit's more difficult to inderstand if I do not finish my sentence:)22:14
plantianbechamel: I understand.  I also don't quite trust it either but it allows separation of structure from actual interpretation.  I think it would be much less complex.22:16
bechamelthis is where top-down parsing is interesting because you have fine control on when a token is consumed, on the construction of the parsing tree, etc22:17
plantianbechamel: I am not as concerned with the implementation as the usage.22:22
-!- kwmiebach1(~ad@xdsl-87-79-167-242.netcologne.de) has joined #tryton23:05
cedkhere is the queue patch repository for DnD tree http://www.b2ck.com/~ced/hg/hgwebdir.cgi/tryton-dnd-tree/23:23
-!- JamesPharaoh(~james@36.51.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) has joined #tryton23:49

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