IRC logs of #tryton for Thursday, 2012-12-13

chat.freenode.net #tryton log beginning Thu Dec 13 00:00:01 CET 2012
sisalphello12:23
sisalpI'd like to use thems for the gtk client and set the them from the server12:24
sisalpthe idea is to differentiate the them of the client on different servers used simultaneously12:25
sisalpso mistakes can be avoided.12:25
sisalpis it a silly idea ?12:25
yangoon1sisalp: rather difficult, if possible at all12:26
yangoon1sisalp: there is the status line12:26
yangoon1sisalp: isn't it enough?12:26
sisalpyangoon1: it should, but in practice, I'll be the first trapped12:27
sisalpthem could be chosen at client level with connection parameters or in the preferences if the server cannot know which thems are available on the desktop12:29
sisalps/them/they/12:29
yangoonsisalp: you could customize the client to show the server more prominently12:29
yangoonsisalp: but themes are clearly a property of the gtk installation of the client machine12:30
sisalpyangoon: a color is better than a text you must read and understand every time12:31
sisalpI thought "them", but the requirement is a colored indicator12:31
sisalp"red for our production server, grey for tryton demo project ...12:32
yangoonsisalp: perhaps there could be shown a random color per connection, but I doubt it will find the approval of cedk12:32
sisalpfor cedk, we could rephrase it as "show a custom logo somewhere," ;-)12:34
sisalpI don't like the random assignment either12:34
sisalpthe point it to decide if it is useful or not I think12:35
sisalpany support from others ? please ;-)12:37
bechamel`sisalp: changing the status color is far easier than the gtk theme12:37
yangoon:)12:37
bechamel`and IMO not a bad idea, maybe this should be a good idea for a plugin12:38
bechamel`s/should/would/12:38
sisalpbechamel`:  yes it could be the background color of the status area12:39
sisalpthe point is that it is a perser request, not a per database one12:39
sisalpper server12:39
sisalpI tell users : when you need to experiment, copy your database to anoter server first12:40
sisalpthen don't play on the wrong server !12:40
bechamel`sisalp: or per server-db couple12:41
sisalpTo reduce risk, I usually recommand a single database when production data are involved, but others may work differently indeed12:42
bechamel`(afk)12:43
jbwivcan someone tell me why one might choose tryton instead of openerp? I saw a recent discussion on HN where sharoon thomas tore apart openerp (http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=sharoonthomas) but didn't really explain why tryton was any better. Plus, openerp has a web client which is pretty important to us. Any advice/insight you can offer would be appreciated18:28
rmujbwiv: one thing should nail it for everyone that thinks about using openerp for accounting: they seem to be (still!) using float for monetary calculations18:40
jbwivrmu: what should they be using?18:42
jbwivah, never mind. I understand what you're saying18:42
jbwivrmu: in practive, does that become a problem? and if so, does tryton do it differently?18:44
rmujbwiv: i would not trust any software that uses floating point for this. many numbers you can't be expressed exactly in floating point, and this will hurt you18:48
cedkjbwiv: it is a problem if you want to compute correctly18:48
cedkjbwiv: any way, it is a long list to enumerate all the differences18:49
cedkjbwiv: but the main difference is that Tryton tries to build a generic framework for business application when OpenERP tries to sale Saas to SME18:50
cedkjbwiv: for the web client, the community founded B2CK to write one18:51
cedkjbwiv: http://hg.tryton.org/sandbox/sao/18:51
cedkjbwiv: but perhaps, you should explain what you are expecting then we could give you advise if Tryton is right for you or not18:53
cedkjbwiv: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Tryton_and_Open_ERP18:54
jbwivcedk: sorry...my notifications aren't working correctly for some reason18:54
jbwivcedk: i have an in-house ERP I'd like to find a replacement for...preferably one which isn't COTS18:54
jbwivlooking at openerp, adempiere, and openbravo...openerp seemed to be most open and I like the fact that it's in python18:55
jbwivit'd need to support about 1000 users18:55
jbwivcurrent system is a legacy system. We own it18:55
cedkjbwiv: what are you managing with it?18:55
jbwivinternal staff18:55
jbwivit's painful to maintain and extend18:56
jbwivand it's old18:56
cedkjbwiv: ok but what are your requirements?18:57
jbwivcedk: accounting, purchasing/inventory/receiving (basically warehouse mgmt), project management (we'll have to customize this, we do it differently), HR/Payroll, Tool tracking (yet another custom thing we'll likely have to do)18:58
jbwivour current system does quite a lot I guess18:58
jbwivultimately, it'd be nice to also have mrp, but that's not a day one requirement18:59
cedkjbwiv: Tryton has modules on all that subject18:59
cedkjbwiv: but if your process are a little bit complex, customisation will be required19:00
cedkjbwiv: but that's not an issue in Tryton as we try to be a modular/flexible as possible19:00
jbwivcedk, so does tryton "right" all of openerp's "wrongs"?19:00
cedkjbwiv: which is not the case of OpenERP19:00
cedkjbwiv: all I found wrong in OpenERP, I fix it in Tryton19:01
jbwivcedk, be back in a few, I have a  visitor. still, I'm interested in continuing the discussion19:01
cedkjbwiv: ok19:01
rmujust found this http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=490580619:18
cedkrmu: we can not claim too much that our ORM is much better (base on same basis)19:20
cedkrmu: but the python-sql project has the goal to improve that19:20
rmucedk: at least most of the spaghetti is gone19:25
cedkrmu: yes of course19:25
cedkrmu: but I'm still not very proude of ModelSQL.{read,search,write,delete}19:26
cedkand at least we have a lot of unittest on this part19:26
rmuwhat will be substantially different with python-sql?19:30
cedkrmu: the SQL string construction19:31
cedkrmu: instead of using str concatination, it will use Python object19:31
jbwivalright...back.19:31
cedkrmu: using that will allow to have better composition of SQL queries19:32
jbwivso what does one give up by using openerp over tryton?19:32
jbwivwoops19:32
jbwivI mean tryton over openerp19:32
cedkrmu: like function field returning SQL clause instead of (id, in, [...])19:32
rmucedk: would it be possible to manipulate the sql in "abstract" python-sql form from modules?19:32
cedkrmu: yes it is the goal19:33
cedkjbwiv: the aggressive marketing :-)19:33
cedkjbwiv: Tryton has less modules but it is working modules19:34
jbwivcedk, really? that's all? I suppose a web interface too for now19:34
cedkjbwiv: for now, yes but our GTK client is much usable than the web client of OpenERP19:35
cedkjbwiv: you can use it with keyboard only19:35
jbwivcedk, if you didn't have tryton to choose, what would you then use? OpenERP or one of the others?19:35
jbwivcedk, that's nice...our current erp is terminal based, so our users have keys memorized. going to point and click will be a challenge for them19:35
cedkjbwiv: for information, I worked at OpenERP (when it was named TinyERP)19:35
cedkjbwiv: so I worked on OpenERP19:36
jbwivcedk, cool. are there any positives you'd say for openerp?19:36
jbwivseems like sharoon  has an agenda of some sort. he's very negative in tweets and on the HN thread19:37
cedkjbwiv: I'm still the 9th contributor to OpenERP: https://www.ohloh.net/p/openerp/contributors?query=&sort=commits19:37
jbwivI'm looking for a more objective view...someone who can share the benefits and drawbacks19:37
jbwivbut I won't get this from a partner of course ;-)19:37
jbwivcedk: nince...so you know it well ;)19:38
cedkjbwiv: sharoon is just upset by OpenERP SA because he trust in the marketing at first and got a lot of trouble when installing OpenERP for his customers19:38
cedkjbwiv: then he switches to Tryton and succeed to solve the problems19:38
jbwivinteresting...did he do any sort of write up on his troubles?19:39
jbwivwonder if I could buy an hour or two of his time to discuss19:39
cedkjbwiv: he comes here from time to time19:39
jbwivcedk, is tryton considered an out of the box solution or is it more a framework for building business apps?19:40
cedkjbwiv: other stuff, you win with Tryton: free migration from releases19:40
cedkjbwiv: depends of your requirements19:41
Telesightjbwiv:  OpenERP has some "empty" modules.19:41
cedkjbwiv: there are people using it out of the box for SME19:41
jbwivTelesight, empty?19:41
jbwivcedk, sorry...SME?19:41
cedkjbwiv: Small Medium Entreprise19:41
cedkjbwiv: SME=SMB19:41
TelesightYes only a name but not real functionality ..19:41
cedkjbwiv: there are people using it to build their own solution19:42
cedkjbwiv: without using any Tryton modules19:42
jbwivcedk, I see. so if I wanted to weigh a possible implementation of tryton, who would I approach? are their "partners"?19:42
cedkjbwiv: there is also some guys connecting Tryton with some kind of sensors to retrieve data19:42
cedkjbwiv: http://www.tryton.org/services.html19:43
cedkjbwiv: a list of companies providing services on Tryton19:43
cedkjbwiv: I'm from B2CK19:43
jbwivalas...no one in the US :-/19:43
cedkjbwiv: there is also GNUHealth http://health.gnu.org/19:43
cedkjbwiv: a hospital management system19:44
Telesightjbwiv: And showstopper bugs are only repeared when you pay for it, too risky for small businesses that have not a lot of money.19:44
jbwivI've heard that one knock against openerp is that it doesn't do American-style accounting well and won't make sense to most US accountants, although on that HN thread I think one of their directors said this wasn't the case. What about tryton? is it too european for US companies?19:45
cedkjbwiv: not yet, but OpenLabs has office in Miami19:45
jbwivTelesight, we're not a wealthy company by any means, but we're not necessarily small either. Medium-size...we have around 2.5K employees total19:45
cedkjbwiv: don't know exactly what are the critics about US accounting practice19:47
cedkjbwiv: for me, the base of the account module of Tryton is quite simple and generic19:48
Telesightjbwiv: No I understand. But small ones do go with OSS because the lack of expensive licenses othe ERP's have.19:48
jbwivTelesight, yeah, and me, I'm a big open source guy, so although we could probably afford an COTS, I don't want one. I like having the source ;-)19:48
jbwivcedk: see this comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=490564019:49
cedkjbwiv: we have now a Foundation to protect Tryton as OSS19:49
TelesightNow we are talking ;-)19:49
jbwivone place I've found openerp lacking is the documentation. is tryton better in this regards? OpenERP's was completely out of date when I was setting it up...very frustrating19:50
cedkjbwiv: about reports, I think Tryton has quite generic report but easy to customize19:51
cedkjbwiv: about taxes, I don't know. The davidbrent doesn't explain what doesn't work19:52
cedkjbwiv: but anyway, we have at least the same functionnality as OE19:52
cedkjbwiv: about doc, this is not our best point :-) But at least we keep doc in the same repo as the code and update it when code change19:53
Telesightjbwiv: OSS and documentation :-(19:53
cedkjbwiv: so it is normally accurate19:53
jbwivcedk, ok, cool. thanks guys. I have a lot of thinking/exploring to do19:53
TelesightWe made ones a start but we have to update it: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wPjdd965wy0_WlQCu8nCw1zl9GJ9xa2jQHQflpiBx98/edit?authkey=CLK6q9gK&authkey=CLK6q9gK19:53
cedkjbwiv: but code is readable at least compare to OE :-)19:54
TelesightTHe documentation must preferably doen with Sphinx.19:54
jbwivok, thanks to both of you. I appreciate it19:57
Telesightjbwiv: Hopefully you will not have a sleepless night ...19:57
jbwivTelesight, more like a sleepless series of months. One does not take switching 1K users to another ERP lightly :-/19:58
Telesightjbwiv: Well good luck!20:01
jbwivTelesight, thanks!20:03
rmucedk: is it somehow possible to have things like production orders, deliveries etc.. show up in the calendar?20:17
rmuwithout copy/pasting most of calendar_todo?20:17
cedkrmu: I think it should be solve with the calendar view antoinne did during GSoC20:23
rmuhmm. i would like it to show up in caldav for various reasons20:25
cedkrmu: then you have to sync it20:25
rmucreate calendar.todo-records?20:26
cedkrmu: why not20:26
cedkrmu: I think it could be a generic module to sync any Model to calendar20:27
rmuwill probably do it... but in ideal world, i would inherit some calender-thingy, implement some mapping/getters/... and be set ;)20:27
cedkrmu: don't think it is the right way because one record could be put in different calendars20:29
cedkrmu: I'm thinking about something similar to triggers20:31
rmui'm thinking of something like a "view"20:31
cedkrmu: then it will not be generic20:34
rmucedk: the "view" would be a customization20:59
rmuhmm. calendar and calendar_todo already contain much "duplicated" code...21:27
rmuis there really any substantial difference between "todo" and "event"?21:27
sisalphello do you know about a shop example of Nereide ?23:03
cedksisalp: should ask to sharoon23:04
sisalpcedk: yes, sharron is not in, maybe some one noted that when he presented at TUL23:05
cedksisalp: he is always a little bit secret with such information :-)23:06
sisalpI'll ask privatly then23:06
cedksisalp: nothing on the website?23:06
sisalpI'm too respectful of my customers'privacy23:07
cedksisalp: I mean on the website of nereid23:07
sisalpcedk: didn't find this site23:11
sisalpnereide and tryton : the picture : http://www.stoa.org/diotima/nereids/icons/141_1.JPG23:13
sisalphttp://nereid.openlabs.co.in/23:16

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