IRC logs of #tryton for Wednesday, 2014-07-09 #tryton log beginning Wed Jul 9 00:00:02 CEST 2014
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vaabHI, I've seen some development on tryton for angular.js... what are the plans ?08:34
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vaabRepeating my question for sharronthomas ;) : Hi, I've seen some development on tryton for angular.js... what are the plans ?08:36
vaabnever going to make it ;)08:36
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sharoonthomashello vaab09:52
sharoonthomasdo you have a question about angular-tryton ?09:54
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vaabsharoonthomas: Yes, hi, I've seen some development on tryton for angular.js... what are the plans ?11:38
vaabsharoothomas: and what about nereid ? Is it supposed to be a new start ?11:39
sharoonthomasvaab: we already use it to build mobile apps powered by ionic and other web applications11:39
sharoonthomasvaab: both have different purposes in life11:39
sharoonthomasvaab: nereid is useful to build apps like commerce, CRM etc where the user would not be a tryton user (like customers, suppliers etc)11:39
sharoonthomasvaab: while angular-tryton could be used to build a tryton client and would need a tryton username and password11:40
vaabsharoonthomas: ok, I'm really new to tryton universe, so sorry if my question are noob's one ;)11:41
sharoonthomasvaab: there is also a angular-nereid-auth if you are interested in using angular js with nereid11:41
sharoonthomasvaab: don't worry about it.... If a newbie has a bad time, it's a bug...
vaabsharoonthomas: and what are the states of these 2 projects ? beta ? do you use them in production ?11:42
sharoonthomasvaab: we use both in production11:42
sharoonthomasvaab: if you need to hear big names, the Government of Greenland uses nereid11:43
vaabsharoonthomas: I'm a developper, I'm already convinced by things like: testability, code quality, avoidance of NIH syndrome and things like this.11:45
sharoonthomasvaab: :)11:45
sharoonthomasvaab: what do you plan on using nereid for ? if you mention what you are thinking of developing I might be able to reason with you on what's best11:46
vaabsharoonthomas: but I'm a contract developer, and I was paid to work on openerp/odoo code a lot. ... And it's a pain in the ass.11:46
vaabsharoonthomas: I'd like to get arguments to convince the people that usually pay me to convince them that tryton community is better ;)11:47
sharoonthomasvaab: we still get paid to develop on odoo/openerp and we convince customers that Tryton is a better choice11:48
sharoonthomasvaab: customers who pay due diligence before choosing their system, usually do not use openerp11:49
sharoonthomasvaab: its when a non tech person in a customer company makes the choice... they fall for openerp marketing11:49
vaabsharoonthomas: How can I set up a working interface that mimick the functionality of core modules of openerp/odoo ? Should I still stick to GTK client ? Has SAO something to do with this ?11:50
sharoonthomasvaab: são is meant to be the web client11:50
vaabsharoonthomas: thx for the answers...11:55
sharoonthomasvaab: feel free to ask if you have questions11:55
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cedksharoonthomas: I don't see where you manage the non-json types?12:08
sharoonthomascedk: that part would be stolen from Sao and injected here:
sharoonthomascedk: the trytonResponseTransformer is like a middleware and its meant to to transparently convert the type before sending to server and change back to native types to the caller.12:14
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vaabI did a 'pip install tryton' and when launching 'tryton' I had a glib.GError: Failed to open file '/usr/share/pixmaps/tryton/tryton-icon.png': No such file or directory14:47
vaabDid I miss something ?14:48
vaabI'm on Ubuntu14.0414:48
vaabI did not install trytond nor anything else14:48
vaab(client is not on same host than server).14:48
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sarthorHI, Is there any tutorial how to configure tryton for some comapny. like creating suppliers, customers, Items, payroll etc.14:59
cedkvaab: where share data were installed?14:59
cedkvaab: it should be installed in prefix15:02
vaabcedk: I usually use a virtualenv, but gtk apps don't like virtualenv, so I made an exception and installed from root with 'pip install tryton', it seems that this command installed it in /usr/local/share/pixmaps/tryton ... Shouldn't I expect that it works out of the box ? ;)15:02
cedkvaab: I guess issue3515 fix it15:03
cedkvaab: otherwise you can install in virtualenv if you pass --system-site-packages option15:04
vaabcedk: I guess that sys.prefix is not /usr/local/bin ... I'm looking your issue 3515...15:04
vaabI'll try the system-site-packages15:04
vaabIt's true I usually try to use --no-site-packages to avoid unwanted leaking between system and my virtualenv15:05
cedksarthor: not really, each module tries to define its object15:05
cedksarthor: but you can see that everything follows the same pattern in Tryton15:05
cedklist - form etc.15:05
cedksarthor: for suppliers, customers == parties (no distinction)15:06
cedkitems == product15:06
cedkpayroll doesn't exist for now15:06
sarthorI am not an expert, and tried to learn OpenERP, but i think that is not free anymore, and I found tryton erp while reading on, tryton looking good, but no tutorial. one can create screen capture video, that will help alot. and also that is not a bit or tough task to do.15:09
vaabcedk: Ouch, my virtualenv with actually quite old. Thanks, now it work in its dedicated virtualenv ! ;)15:14
cedkvaab: but it will be good to know if trunk works in your previous setup15:16
pokolisarthor: feel free to ask here whatever you need :)15:16
vaabcedk: ok... I'll tell you that in a few minutes...15:17
vaabcedk: humm, with 'pip install tryton' I get 3.2.2 and it definitively triggers the error. It looks in '/usr/share/pixmaps/tryton/tryton-icon.png' but icon is in /usr/local/share/pixmaps/tryton ... but15:25
vaabcedk: using source code from git, and moving to tag 3.2.2, and launching 'python install' will work ... and image is in a third location:15:26
vaabcedk: in '/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/tryton-3.2.2-py2.7.egg/...'15:27
vaabcedk: additionaly, 'pip uninstall' seems to fails finding this bogus installed version.15:28
vaab$ pip uninstall tryton15:28
vaabCan't uninstall 'tryton'. No files were found to uninstall.15:28
vaabpip install tryton15:29
vaabRequirement already satisfied (use --upgrade to upgrade): tryton in /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages15:29
vaabRequirement already satisfied (use --upgrade to upgrade): python-dateutil in /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages (from tryton)15:29
vaabRequirement already satisfied (use --upgrade to upgrade): six in /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages (from python-dateutil->tryton)15:29
vaabCleaning up...15:29
cedkvaab: tryton is on mercurial15:29
vaabcedk: doesn't seem to be really of track15:30
vaabcedk: but if you think this will really change things, I could change ... notice I'm not reporting a bug on this source code, but on the PyPI package ...15:31
vaaboff track15:31
cedkvaab: for trunk: pip install --pre --find-links tryton==3.3.dev015:35
vaabcedk: this fails also...15:37
vaabcedk: same exception...15:37
vaabcedk: notice that I had do uninstall by hand the previous version as it won't uninstall cleanly. So I hope this won't break the test.15:38
vaabcedk: All this go away, and it seems to work fine if I use "python install" in the source tree ... (version 3.2.2 or current github trunk).15:39
cedkvaab: probably you must be root to uninstall15:39
cedkvaab: pip is a strange monster15:40
sarthorpokoli: cedk also there is no arabic language listed. better to add arabic language in translate section, I hope people will help to write translation.15:40
vaabpython packaging history is not so clean neither ;)15:41
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pokolisarthor: you can work on a patch to add translations, but we prefer full translations15:43
cedksarthor: as far as nobody has translated, we can not add anything15:44
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sarthorpokoli: I am sorry to mention openerp here again and again, In Openerp it was possible to translate while using Openerp, If there is an easy way to translate so I Will help in that, But as I said I am not an expert.15:45
sarthorpokoli: cedk : in frontaccounting there is separate folder for languages, and that was really easy to write translate. If somthing like that, So I will try in Arabic  and Urdu Translation,15:47
pokolisarthor: have a look at # -*- coding: latin-1 -*-15:47
pokolisarthor: (sorry wrong link)15:47
pokolisarthor: the wiki link is the correct one15:48
sarthorpokoli: OK. got that.15:48
vaabcedk: for information, as a noob, I'm looking for database configuration, and can't find any such thing. So I'm stuck with a trytond working, and a client up and running... but no help to go to next step (and next steps in various help I found is about structural or developper related stuff...). What did I miss ?15:50
cedkvaab: from the client, you should be able to create a database15:51
cedkvaab: in file menu15:51
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vaabcedk: ok, this login window can be bypassed. That's not clear, and maybe a simple button in the login window to the "New database" could be a good idea. Or if you don't think it's a good idea, mention that in the installation process, I feel configuring your first database should definitively be mentionned. (if it not already the case).15:54
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vaabHow can I make modification to the doc ?15:54
pokolivaab: which doc? and wich modification?15:55
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cedkvaab: all that will be removed as trytond should no more be multi-database15:56
cedkso for me, database should be created from command line15:56
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vaabcedk: I can understand this, but right now there's no hints to how to create a database. A single quick mention of what you've told me seems enough to unlock the dead-end.15:57
vaabpokoli: well I found various doc, and none of them mentionned a process to create a new database (as far as my research led me).15:58
pokolivaab: for you can send pull request on
cedkvaab: if you find someone to make the dev that will be removed soon, feel free16:00
vaabpokoli:,,, ...16:01
pokolivaab: same repo :)16:01
vaabpokoli: these are the links I was reading ;)16:02
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pokolivaab: and for is on
sharoonthomasvaab: is a community effort and we will be happy to help you to contribute to it16:03
vaabpokoli: and I was here also ;)
sharoonthomasvaab: you just have to send a pull request and we can review there16:03
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vaabI can't remember where I've read this, but it seems that some version of postgres are better than others ? can you confirm this ?16:21
vaabOr any version > 8.4 would do ?16:21
pokolivaab: if i remember well 8.4 is the least supported version16:22
sharoonthomasvaab: 9.3 is what we currently have on our deployments and the most important feature for us is the streaming replication.16:25
sharoonthomasvaab: we use repmgr to have an automated failover16:25
vaabsharoonthomas: so it seems to make sense to advise upon installing >9.3 postgres in the manual.16:26
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sharoonthomasvaab: I don't see a harm in being opinionated about postgres and the version. Of the backends supported by tryton you should really be using postgres.16:27
cedkvaab: Tryton supports all the supported version of PostgreSQL16:29
vaabI can't find the place where the list of backend supported by tryton is listed. Of my memory it would be MySQL, postgres, SQLlite3 ... is MariaDB supported ?16:32
cedkvaab: MariaDB simulate MySQL so yes16:32
vaabcedk: can we actually create an empty database (with createdb for instance) and use it directly ? Will it fill automatically ?16:41
sharoonthomasvaab: yes16:41
sharoonthomasvaab: you can then init the database using trytond command16:41
sharoonthomasvaab: `trytond -d dbname -i all`16:42
sharoonthomascedk: I remember there was some place where you had listed the annoying things about MySQL when used with Tryton16:42
sharoonthomascedk: does Maria DB fix that ?16:42
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cedksharoonthomas: no16:44
cedktests run on MariaDB:
sharoonthomascedk: vaab: thanks, we should not recommend mysql16:50
vaabcedk: I have never seen a mention of the "Tryton Server Password" in the doc. Did I miss it ? or any contribution on this side is accepted ?16:50
vaabsharoonthomas: ok, changing my contribution to reflect that.16:51
udonovaab: hi, you can set the server password in your trytond.conf file16:52
vaabudono: ok, any objection if I include a new section mentioning this in the installation procedure ?16:53
udonovaab: which installation procedure you are talking about?16:54
vaabudono: currently editing and other pages in the same location.16:55
vaabbut the documentation on the official site is not better.16:55
udonovaab: Yes, I would Include a ..note:: about the server password16:56
vaabudono: it'll will go well beyond ;)16:56
vaabFor some reason, the "Create" button is disabled in the "Create new database" window of the GTK client. There are no obvious reason why... Any suggestions ?17:08
vaabI have no "Default Language" selected, that might be it... but, hmm, I have no values available to fill this field.17:10
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vaabudono, cedk, sharoothomas, pokoli: any suggestions for my last issue ?17:11
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cedkvaab: is the server configuration correct?17:14
vaabcedk: yup, as far as I can tell... It's quite easy. Do it silently check this before enabling or not the "Create" button ?17:16
vaabI don't seem to be able to netcat to the port of my LXC... despite trytond outputing:17:17
vaab$ trytond17:17
vaab[Wed Jul 09 15:06:33 2014] INFO:server:using default configuration17:17
vaab[Wed Jul 09 15:06:33 2014] INFO:server:initialising distributed objects services17:17
vaab[Wed Jul 09 15:06:33 2014] INFO:server:starting JSON-RPC protocol on localhost:800017:17
cedkvaab: please no copy/paste in channel17:17
pokolivaab: by default trytond listens to localhost, and you can see in the logs that it's not listening to all ip17:17
vaabcedk: ah ok, sorry. my bad17:17
pokolivaab: so if you're connecting for another machine you can not connect to trytond17:17
pokolivaab: just open your trytond.conf file and change jsonrpc config to *:800017:18
pokolivaab: this will listen to all interfaces17:18
pokolivaab: you must restart your server in order to apply the changes17:19
vaabpokoli: I have no trytond.conf file, and I had to guess it's very existence (and location) despite reading the official docs I could find. I have further no idea of what format is supposed to be used in this file. But does contain some information (in the comments). I'm trying to gather all this and will propose a PR on the tryton-documentation project.17:21
pokolivaab: I will prefer if you add more small PR that are easier to review than a big one :)17:22
pokolivaab: and regarding the issue, de default file is in the etc/ dir where you have trytond17:23
vaabpokoli: I'm used to separate my work in very small commits, and if you want I'll do a lot of small PR17:23
pokolivaab: yes, please, just create branches for each commit and send small PR :)17:23
pokolivaab: you can copy the default trytond.conf file to wherever you want, and run trytond with -c <path_to_config_file>17:24
vaabpokoli: ok. I'll do this when I'll finish.17:24
vaabpokoli: and where's that default trytond.conf ?17:24
pokolivaab: i think it doesn't get copied when installing17:25
pokolivaab: so
pokolivaab: i can confirm you don't get in the packaged version17:26
pokolivaab: also you can create a new file with only the setting you want and use it17:26
vaabpokoli: there's a section named: "Preparing Application Servers"... with TODO in it, and I've no idea what this section was meant to cover.17:30
pokolivaab: you can explain all the config file stuff in there :)17:31
vaabpokoli: not much content, but required if you want to see more ! ;) there was a lot of typos, markup issues I wanted to clear up. I can't make clean PR with only content before fixing these.17:41
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Piloudespite there are 2 comments, I got "error: old chunk mismatch" with :-/17:53
pokolivaab: merged. Thanks!17:54
vaabmore is coming, you are sure you don't want me to put more than one commit in a PR ?17:54
pokolivaab: for me yes17:55
cedkargs! PR :-)17:55
vaabcedk: ?17:56
cedkvaab: for me, PR is the wrong workflow17:59
vaabcedk: we all have our windmills18:01
Piloucedk: about review 7401002, should I add related comment to the issue 3627 instead ? Or should I send a mail with the comments to the tryton-dev ML ?18:11
cedkPilou: to the issue18:21
pokolivaab: will review it ASAP :)18:24
vaabtake your time ;)18:24
vaabcedk: Should I suppose that I'll burn to hell if I dare make a PR containing a link to mercurial AND GIT ;) ? If this could appease you, I'll put a mention of "non-official" and in second place compared to the hg repo.18:27
vaabwhere is the module's source code if not on the "" ?18:36
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pokolivaab: depends on the module but if it's not on it's not an official module18:40
vaabI can't see modules ... or it's not obvious enough for me...18:40
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vaabcedk: ok thanks.18:45
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vaabpokoli: what do you prefer for update of the PR ? an amend or a new commit in the same PR ?18:57
pokolivaab: amend :)18:58
pokolivaab: not sure if ammend works on PR, i usully make some commits and then squash them18:59
vaabit works ;)18:59
vaabI use them quite often18:59
pokolivaab: so I will use ammend next time ;)19:00
vaabpokoli: I understand why you want to change the link, but what's displayed on this page is rough... lots of unrelated stuff and numbers (X11 Applications, Web Environment, Developments Status, OSI Approved...) ... You'll frighten peoples... especially MacOSX, Windows peoples ;) ... A page with the actual list names of what they can actually ``pip install`` was my intention... And we are far from this in your link... Does my explanation mak19:03
vaabe sense for you ?19:04
pokolivaab: i haven't found a better listing, so that's why i proposed this link19:04
pokolivaab: what I mean, is your list is not exaustive, so I will prefer only a mention to the Framework:tryton classifier on pypi19:05
vaabpokoli: my listing had the actual list of all modules, alphabetically sorted, with description of each ;)19:05
vaabpokoli: and that was the first aim: be simple and direct. It's not exhaustive, I understand, but it's close to be. I don't think being exhaustive is really important, what was important for me is to get a quick picture of what was roughly available. Are there very important modules that are not listed in the link I gave ?19:08
vaabpokoli: your list is not usable for people not having a level of knowledge on PyPI. Even some tech people won't know enough and just want to copy paste "pip install ...", but they don't know what is a classifier in PyPI.19:10
pokolivaab: checking the list :)19:10
pokolivaab: can we agree on this
pokolivaab: and I found a module in my list that it's not in yours :)19:10
vaabpokoli: I won't fight on this, your last list is perfect for me...19:11
pokolivaab: 3 modules that you missed :P19:11
pokolivaab: it will be great if you can also mention the tryton classifier on pypi :P19:12
vaabpokoli: I don't think that being exhaustive is important to be honest. This doc is missing so much important information and is failing helping even advanced users a start without being helped by you guys. Your last list is perfect.19:13
vaabpokoli: a great doc is a doc up to the point. Advanced users don't need this doc. This is exactly why I think so much important basic information where not in this doc in the first place.19:14
vaabpokoli: so I would avoid teaching how PyPI works ;) ...19:14
vaabpokoli: and now that you are mentionning this... I would also avoid making a course on how to setup/quit a virtualenv... I don't feel it's the correct place to do this to be honest.19:15
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vaabSo in my upcoming PR, there's the deletion of this part to be honest... So if you are not keen to remove it, tell me, and I'll avoid making the PR ;)19:16
vaabI'm not proposing to remove all mention of virtualenv, but actually just remove the lengthy tutorial on how to isntall virtualenv, activate it, deactivate it.19:17
pokolivaab: for the virtualenv just a link to the docs is enough but you can skip if you want19:17
vaabpokoli: glad that you share my view on this point.19:17
pokolivaab: i share, but i will wait for other maintainers opinions before merging it19:18
pokolivaab: so i can not guarantee anything :)19:18
vaabyep of course ! ;)19:18
vaabIt's a bit painfull as my PR are stacked ;)19:19
pokolivaab: you can't rebase them to master so they are not stacked?19:20
vaabBut I think it's essential that the PR get reviewed by more than one people ;)19:20
pokolivaab: which timezone are you?19:20
vaabno because I move parts that I'm changing so that you understand. One commit to remove obvious typos, One commit to add contents, One commit to move sections around (without modifying content)... These can't be rebase and must wait each previous PR to be accepted ;)19:21
vaabunless you accept multi commit PR ;)19:21
vaabpokoli: I'm in france right now19:22
pokolivaab: you can squash the commits that move content to the previous ones that add if they are related19:26
pokolivaab: i wil accept, but prefer to get only one :P19:27
pokolivaab: ok, so your in my time zone, i was afraid you where in the states and got me here till midnight :P19:27
vaabpokoli: hmm, well I've a lot to push, so I think you'll need to stop at one moment, especially because I'll be quickly blocked by the stacking issue.19:29
pokolivaab: for now we can get the next :)19:30
vaabpokoli: I'll probably add a configuration.rst  file, just to separate Installation from configuration. We can try 2 commit at once this time, and you'll tell me if it's manageable.19:30
pokolivaab: ok19:30
vaabpokoli: a friend of mine tells me that your list is not so perfect: there several times the same modules. ;)19:54
vaabpokoli: one for each version... I would add that it's not alphabetically sorted.19:55
vaabpokoli: it's quite difficult to get a general idea of the number of module and how they are named ;) ... my given friend is a perfect candidate: he will know how to do a 'pip install ..' but doesn't know what is a python classifier (and don't care), but he could care about tryton itself as he sells openerp services and spend his time complaining...19:57
pokolivaab: diferent versions of same module :)20:00
pokolivaab: i can say that the list is not specific, as we have a lot of modules not pushed to pypi20:01
vaabpokoli: If I put a mention on this fact and put back the alphabetical list, would you be happy ?20:03
pokolivaab: i prefer this list as your list misses some packages20:05
pokolivaab: and the more packages uploaded to pypi the more packages you will miss20:05
vaabpokoli: this wiki  seems more documented than what I'm modifying, but I didn't fall on it except by doing specific google research... What is the current status of this doc ?20:51
pokolivaab: of which doc? the wiki?21:03
pokolivaab: yes, the wiki is older21:03
vaabpokoli: it is in more than one aspect much better than the proposed docs...21:04
pokolivaab: so that's why i propose to link to the wiki :)21:06
vaabpokoli: well if you want the github doc to remain incomplete on crucial point (which I didn't commit right now because all this process is taking really long)... Should the wiki be updated then ? Why having 3 incomplete or partly obsolete docs where you could have one that is up to date and complete, and the defacto standard ?21:09
cedkvaab: it is like that because people don't want to take the time to contribute to the main documentation and prefer quick edition via wiki or github21:13
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kstengercedk: any docs on how cache works in tryton that I can look at?21:24
cedkkstenger: no21:25
vaabcedk: so shouldn't we come to the conclusion that the main documentation process is somewhat broken ?21:26
cedkvaab: for now, I require doc for each new feature but there is a gap that must be filled21:29
cedkvaab: I don't think the process is broken, it is just documentation is boring and almost nobody wants to do that job21:30
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cedkkstenger: but cache is global per context for simple field and per instance for complex21:32
cedkkstenger: cache is cleared on each write21:33
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kstengercedk: ok, so what does LRU on LRUDict stand for?21:35
kstengercedk: thanks21:41
vaabConsider what follows as a feedback... very basic information is lacking to install, configure, and get your first database up...21:54
vaabcedk: Contrary to what you think, it happens some people like to do documentation but there are excellent way to discourage them. It might be of interests to change strategies just to see if your theory holds.21:54
vaabcedk: There are plenty of project that are well documented, why tryton would be worse ?.21:55
vaabTo replace the feedback and hopefully give you the maximum information, I use git every day, I'm a seasoned python developper, I used mercurial several years also.21:56
vaabYou are all very helpfull and welcoming in this IRC chat. No doubt.21:56
vaabBut the doc effort of the project seems to me incoherent:21:56
vaab a lot of work is made to support Windows packaging, MacOSX, as if you target a broad audience: admin, possible partners, curious... people with a need: Testing Tryton and having a minimum quite small technical skill. A possible partner for instance that would resell or use Tryton to sell services to his customers.21:58
vaabA lot of work was duplicated : there are 3 semi-official documentations, the best is the wiki from google... seemingly being held as "obsolete" as far as I understood.21:59
cedkvaab: I prefer no doc then wrong doc22:01
cedkvaab: and many of the «well» documented projects have wrong doc22:01
vaabA broad and long documentation is given on hard technical details on how models are thoughts and implemented, just after the skinny "First steps" that barely tell you that to install tryton you only need to do "pip install tryton". Forgetting a lot of steps that you must follow to get something to work.22:01
vaabcedk: well it happens that you have 3 wrong docs ...22:02
cedkvaab: problem is that they are not one unique way to do it22:02
cedkvaab: the *real* is normally accurate22:02
cedkit is the only one maintained proactively by the core developpers22:02
vaabcedk: and they are completely lacking the basic information while being quite proficient in obscure topics (that probably are outdated or inaccurate? I've not had the opportunity to try them... I need to install this product before knowing If the project is viable)22:04
vaabanyway I won't argue, this is not a debate. Just a feedback. It's up to you to just ignore it.22:05
cedkvaab: personnly I prefer to focus on other things that I like to do22:05
vaabI'm available if you want more information or more docs (I've written down a big part of this basic information I feel is missing).22:05
vaabI'm already contributing with a PR on documentation, and sharing feedback. Probably the most lacking feature actually in tryton. But I don't feel that you share this last point with me ;)22:11
vaabI'm trying to understand things... If I correctly understood you, the github version is not the "real" documentation ?22:37
vaabcedk: so the real documentation is the one on the main website. How come the github version have come to life ? especially if it's not the "real" one ? I don't get why it was fragmented in the first place.22:38
vaabsame question for the google one ... ;)22:39
vaaband who decides of things as the DVCS choices ? Is it a community decision ?22:42
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cedkvaab: people are free to do what they want23:56
cedkvaab: but only what is hosted on is «official»23:56

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