IRC logs of #tryton for Monday, 2016-10-24

chat.freenode.net #tryton log beginning Mon Oct 24 00:00:01 CEST 2016
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pokoliHi, which is the policy about new content in website? We should add them for all the translations, or we should only include on the english version?10:54
PiiteriRegarding the account module: there seems to be a lot of duplication when defining accounts. From what I can tell you first define an account type (// a category??), and then you define the actual account and specify the type defined earlier. But then you can also create accounts directly and set them as "view", which kinda makes them like categories as well? Any place I could read up on stuff like this?11:43
pokoliPiiteri: account type is used for reports. See: http://doc.tryton.org/4.0/modules/account/doc/index.html#account-type11:45
cedkpokoli: only english, indeed I think we should focus on english only website11:50
Piiteripokoli: thanks. I have read that page a number of times and was none the wiser before, but it makes total sense now.11:56
pokolicedk: currently I added the translations I know (spanish and catalan), but this makes the other pages not updated11:58
pokolicedk: but I agree that having a multi-language site makes no sense because translations are not updated, which it's a pitty11:59
cedkpokoli: what content is it?12:04
pokolicedk: https://tryton-rietveld.appspot.com/33511002/12:05
cedkpokoli: maybe we should drop translations for this page12:08
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pokolicedk: or at least include all the new content unstranslated12:13
pokoliACTION is writing to the ML to discuss about website translations12:16
cedkpokoli: the current state is not manageable, so we must drop12:17
cedkpokoli: ML is pointless because everybody will want to have translated website but nobody will do it on time, correctly etc.12:17
pokolicedk: OK, so for me, if we drop we must drop *all* the translations12:18
cedkpokoli: I started to create a new website and did not plan to have translations at all12:19
cedkpokoli: the problem is the content, I have no f**king idea about what to tell12:19
cedkthere is always this discussion that the site should be split in 3 audiences: business decider, business owner, developer but after that no content12:20
pokolicedk: can we simplify to only 2 audiciences: business and developer12:22
cedkpokoli: I do not care but without content discussion is pointless12:22
pokolicedk: You can pick some ideas from the http://www.openerp2tryton.com where the comparision is separated from the User PoV and the Developer PoV12:23
pokolicedk: and about my codereview, I'm droping the translations and focus on the english content12:24
pokolicedk: For me the bussines part, should answer the "What can tryton do for my business?" question12:26
pokolicedk: and for the developer part we should answer: "Which benefits I have when developing with tryton?" and "Which applications i can develop with Tryton?"12:27
cedkpokoli: of course12:29
PiiteriThe content I would need the most is just slightly more verbose documentation explaining how to use tryton and make some basic tweaks.12:32
tbruyerehello12:33
tbruyereI wanted to install a module with the gui interface in the trunk release.12:33
tbruyereThere seems to be a problem with the change "5651: Fix 44a99cd509c4 missed renaming of install to activate". I get an error "method calling install it ...". In the xml file forms it always calls the method to install the button and not activate. I have to introduce a bug? or what is already known.12:33
cedktbruyere: re-open issue565112:35
cedknicoe: could you re-test correctly this issue12:35
pokolicedk: I don't know if it worth to add a discussion about the website content, so other people can join12:37
cedkpokoli: I do not think we need to discuss, we need people to act12:37
pokolicedk: yes, but we should provide mechanism to act, otherwise we can not complain12:40
JanGBcedk: pokoli: I could help you with a mockup - possibly this will help to find the content ....12:40
pokoliJanGB: i will like to have your input on https://bugs.tryton.org/issue596012:41
pokoliJanGB: as you were the requester :)12:41
cedkJanGB: I think we first need the content, the layout will come from it12:42
cedkpokoli: I do not agree, this is freesoftware project not summer camp12:44
JanGBcedk: sometimes a structure helps you to focus12:46
cedkJanGB: I do not agree, we must first know what we say before puting a layout12:47
cedkJanGB: any way, we already got 2-3 times this intial work which all leaded to nothing because there was no content12:48
pokoliJanGB: I agree with cedk that we first need the content, because the layout without content is nothing12:49
pokoliJanGB: but I take the note, so when we have the content you can provide a mockup ;-)12:49
JanGBcedk: of course - for me the mockup is less a layout than a structure - I'm not talking about a design. I talk about a visualisation of how to statisfy the needs of different users12:52
TimitosJanGB: i agree with cedk and pokoli. the first thing we need is the content. there is no need for any mockup or design before12:53
cedkJanGB: we have https://mind42.com/public/ea967934-a1af-4fa4-aa6e-61d44cf27cf712:54
JanGBpokoli, cedk, timitos: we have already a lot of content12:56
pokoliJanGB: wer are missing a lot also for example the about section of the mind man (see link) it's moreless all missing12:58
cedkpokoli: this is precisly were I was stuck in the website creation12:59
JanGBcedk: yes - possibly because you are thinking each end as an page?13:04
cedkJanGB: not really, it is because I can not write13:05
pokolicedk: For me we should start by the Functionalities part, writting which features provides every module13:06
pokolicedk: We have a lot of content in the release news, which explains the new features, and it can be used as at starting point13:06
cedkpokoli: I do not think it is for the website13:07
cedkpokoli: you are just talking about module documentation13:07
pokolicedk: not so verbose, I'm talking about similar to: https://erpnext.com/features13:08
JanGBcedk: give the writing stuff to others - writing is a profession as well and you should work on features, not texts13:11
cedkJanGB: I agree13:11
cedkJanGB: that's why I stopped13:12
cedkpokoli: this goes in the "Business Owner > Ready to use"13:12
cedkpokoli: or maybe in "Decision Maker > Functionalities"13:13
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JanGBpokoli: this should be one and the same13:15
cedkof course ERPNext.com is a good example minor the company marketing stuffs13:18
cedkfor those who wants the WIP: https://tryton-rietveld.appspot.com/3439100213:21
JanGBthe most important things the webpage should provide: 1. a fast way for developers to the needed informations. 2. help for decision makers to resolve cognitive dissonance13:21
cedkJanGB: "resolve cognitive dissonance" ?13:22
JanGBcedk: better reduce. the decision makers need to have a "good feeling" with tryton - they are in a unsteady state while searching a ERP13:27
cedkJanGB: agree13:32
nicoecedk: https://tryton-rietveld.appspot.com/34391003/13:34
cedknicoe: I think we need standard test that check if button names are real buttons13:40
Piiterinicoe: How about enable/disable?13:40
JanGBcedk: pokoli: Timitos: and that's why I proposed a mockup. You are wrong if you think, the first you need is content. You can't write content, if you don't know the audience and there expectations13:41
cedkJanGB: what is wrong with the mindmap?13:41
nicoecedk: I just created an issue for that13:42
nicoecedk: And uploaded a patch13:42
JanGBcedk: nothing - but you stopped writing :)13:44
nicoePiiteri: The issue use activate / deactivate, I followed the proposition13:46
nicoePiiteri: And I have the impression "activate" denotes more that there is stuff working on behind than "Enable"13:47
nicoePiiteri: "Enable" sounds (to me) like it's there but not used yet. If you see what I mean13:48
tbruyerenicoe: I also created a patch for the name of the buttons sorry :(13:54
nicoetbruyere: np13:54
tbruyerenicoel: but I also changed the label in trytond/ir/view/module_activate_upgrade_done_form.xml and trytond/ir/view/module_config_wizard_first_form.xml13:55
nicoetbruyere: Indeed.13:56
nicoetbruyere: This change is killing me13:57
nicoetbruyere: s/change/issue13:57
pokolicedk: May I ask why flask for a static website?14:05
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Piiterinicoe: You are absolutely right. I understand the semantic difference like this: when you enable something a process runs that finishes, after which something is "enabled". When you activate something a process runs and when it finishes it is deactivated.14:53
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Piiterinicoe: semantics though.. really not worth all these letters. :)14:54
cedkpokoli: because I want to have some dynamics like supporter list, last release, blog post etc.15:17
pokolicedk: understood, great!15:30
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nicoepokoli, cedk: Does the test passes for account_payment_clearing in sqlite? If so which version of sqlite are you using?18:43
nicoepokoli, cedk: I think that since my update to sqlite 3.15 (this morning) a test fail18:44
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cedknicoe: I have 3.9.2 and unittest pass, scenario is running18:54
nicoecedk: I don't think you'll have the bug I've gone from 3.12 to 3.1518:55
cedknicoe: what is the bug?18:55
nicoeA SQL query returns a float while before it returned a numeric18:57
cedknicoe: which query?18:58
nicoecedk: http://hg.tryton.org/modules/account/file/tip/move.py#l111318:59
nicoecedk: It's in account but it breaks in account_payment_clearing18:59
nicoeAdding the check from http://hg.tryton.org/modules/account/file/tip/move.py#l1099 fixes the problem obviously19:00
nicoeBut it seems strange that upgrading from one version of sqlite to another triggers this bug19:00
cedknicoe: I got also the problem19:03
nicoeStrange, the tests are green for the module19:04
cedknicoe: I guess changeset 7b87e4cd7850 changed the debit/credit19:09
cedknicoe: or a better explaination is the order proteus is calling the on_change19:10
cedknicoe: as the scenario use .new() with parameters, the order of on_change calls depends on the implemenation of Python19:10
cedkI think we should avoid to use such feature from proteus because it makes unreliable bahviour19:11
cedknicoe: any way, the code of account must be fixed19:11
cedkand I think we should add a warning on proteus when using *kwargs for instantiation19:12
nicoecedk: OK19:12
nicoecedk: well with python 3.6, the order of the dictionaries will be deterministic19:13
nicoecedk: :)19:13
nicoecedk: But yes a warning should be used19:13
cedknicoe: no code can not rely on 3.6 implementation detail19:16
cedknicoe: I think it could only be used for unfolding between args and kwargs19:16
nicoe(that was a joke)19:17
cedknicoe: about issue5976, it is better to put the change in the message than the title because it can be clicked19:17
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nicoecedk: Yep I noticed it afterwards19:22
nicoecedk: Anyway I got to go19:24
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