IRC logs of #tryton for Thursday, 2009-04-16 #tryton log beginning Thu Apr 16 00:00:01 CEST 2009
CIA-48ced roundup * #941/webdav: logs: [in-progress] I have talk to the pyWebDAV maintainer and he agrees for a patch that remove those debugging files.00:17
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CIA-48udo.spallek * r559 /wiki/ Edited wiki page through web user interface.09:59
CIA-48udo.spallek * r560 /wiki/ Edited wiki page through web user interface.09:59
CIA-48udono roundup * #995/ProgrammingError: kann Zugriff nicht serialisieren wegen gleichzeitiger Aktualisierung: [new] Traceback (most recent call last): File "/trytond/protocols/", line 47, in run res = dispatch(host, port, 'NetRPC', *msg) F ...10:36
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CIA-48udono roundup * #995/ProgrammingError: kann Zugriff nicht serialisieren wegen gleichzeitiger Aktualisierung: [chatting] I tried to chage the number of calls in scheduled action10:36
CIA-48udono roundup * #995/ProgrammingError: kann Zugriff nicht serialisieren wegen gleichzeitiger Aktualisierung: english translation: could not serialize access due to concurrent update10:38
CIA-48ced roundup * #995/ProgrammingError: kann Zugriff nicht serialisieren wegen gleichzeitiger Aktualisierung: [invalid] This is normal if you increase too much the number of call, you have issue with the serialize access.10:45
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CIA-48matb roundup * #975/Size of forms for new records: At least it is not a question of themes, because I have the same behaviour for Raleigh and for Qt-Curve.11:52
CIA-48matb roundup * #996/Sort order of Menus/Complete Names: [new] Administration/User Interface/Menus/Complete Name is not sorted, neither in English nor in translations.11:57
CIA-48udo.spallek * r561 /wiki/ Edited wiki page through web user interface.12:00
CIA-48udo.spallek * r562 /wiki/ Edited wiki page through web user interface.12:00 * r563 /wiki/ Edited wiki page through web user interface.12:00
CIA-48udono roundup * #997/Analytic Account shows accounts from other company: [new] My user is member of company 1. The analytic accounts are for company 2. If the user opens analytic accounts, he see all accounts of all co ...12:03
CIA-48udono roundup * #997/Analytic Account shows accounts from other company: [chatting] Open chart of analytic account shows up all companies too.12:07
CIA-48ced roundup * #996/Sort order of Menus/Complete Names: [invalid] It is sorted by the sequence but you can click on column to sort it.12:12
CIA-48udono roundup * #998/Analytic invoice: shows all analytic accounts of all companies: [new] same as issue997 but with module analytic_invoice12:13
CIA-48udono roundup * #999/Lot of warnings when building server documentation: [new] # sphinx-build . html/ No builder selected, using default: html Sphinx v0.4.3, building html trying to load pickled env... done building [h ...12:14
CIA-48udono roundup * #1000/Happy Birthday Tryton!: [new] Happy Birthday Tryton! now you are issue1000 old. No longer a kid on the open source ERP block ...12:14
bechamelhi, I have prepared a text for the new release:
bechamelcomments are welcomed :)12:26
CIA-48ced roundup * #914/i propose to remove easy_install recommendation from download site: The relatorio issue must be fixed with the last version:
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udonoso guys I finished my tests. Not tested this hard the analytical stuff, because I don't know the use for now. Iam away until Sunday, but maybe sometimes online. See you next week!13:16
carlosudono: enjoy!13:19
udonocarlos: I will13:20
udonocarlos: thanks13:20
cedkudono: no remarks on the news?13:22
udonocedk: you mean bechamels changelog?13:24
cedkudono: yes13:24
carlosbechamel: Search on translatable field returns results in the chosen language13:24
carlos  only (that is results from the default language are now ignored).13:24
carlosbechamel: isn't it more clear if we just say '... from English ...'13:25
carlosI know there is an exception, for chart of accounts, but I think we should make it clear that in general, the default language is English13:26
carlosor am I missing anything?13:26
udonobechamel: additionally we have a new language es_CO13:26
carlosudono: in fact... es_ES is the new one13:26
bechamelcarlos, udono: good remarks13:26
carloses_CO was using es_ES incorrectly13:26
udonobechamel: better support for translating report which are overwritten by a custom report13:28
cedkbechamel: so you could add split of es into es_ES and es_CO13:28
udonobechamel: solved bugs missing. It would be good to put a link to the bugtracker for solved bugs...13:28
bechamelwhere do i pout the split es_ES/es_CO ? in the module section ?13:29
carlosbechamel: I think core is the best place for it13:30
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carlosAlso, I think Account and party changes should be explained a bit more13:31
carlosthose release notes are too technical oriented and we should also try to get regular users 'excited' with the new features (and vies, new vat system and chart of accounts update feature are that kind of features for plain users)13:32
cedkbechamel: I agree with carlos, module part must be more verbose13:33
bechameludono: for the bugs: i think there is no way to filter bugs that are linked to this release (except for some of them with the "1.1" keyword)13:34
bechamelok I will add some comments on new module features13:35
yangoonbechamel: it depends on the goal of the changelog: if you want to show the technical chnages to a developer it may be ok. but if you think about the normal reader, he want to know about the consequences of a change, not the chnage itself.13:36
cedkyangoon: it is not a changelog but a realease announce13:36
yangoonbechamel: so I would change it to refelct more the new experience for the common user13:37
yangooncedk: then I would change it in the sense I just talked above13:37
yangooncedk: yes, thats exactly the point: for me it is more a changelog, not a release announce13:38
bechamelyangoon: I agree with you but: 1) the audience of tryton is mainly composed of developer atm 2) lots of great feature aren't visible by the end user13:39
yangoonbechamel: I see the problem, but I would indeed separate a changelog from a release announce13:42
bechamelyangoon: or i can split the news in two : end user/technical features13:43
yangoonand the great hidden features have a consequence as well for the user like: better possibility to do something, better stability, ...13:43
cedkbechamel: don't split13:44
yangoonbechamel: yes, that would be great13:44
cedkbechamel: it is not a changelog as it is in the repo13:44
yangooncedk: there is no common changelog in the repos13:44
cedkyangoon: it is normal13:45
Timitosbechamel: i also think that splitting it could be good13:45
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bechamelwhat can i do is to reorder stuff: 1 modules 2 cient 2 server13:45
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cedkbechamel: why?13:46
cedkthere is not a clear separation between what you call devs and users13:47
bechamelcedk: like that features that are understable by everybody are on top13:47
bechamelif not the non-tech user will start to read and get bored by technical stuff13:48
cedkbechamel: but the separation is not module, client, server13:48
bechamelcedk: clear separation ? easy: user: people that doesn't undesrtand the server section, dev; other people :)13:49
cedkbechamel: who is user and who is dev ?13:50
udonocedk: bechamel: for me a changelog is something dev specific. But the release announcement should be user centric.13:51
udono... other changelogs show every bug they solved and any new feature in a long list with sections for each version.13:52
cedkudono: it is in mercurial13:52
bechameludono: hg log :)13:53
Timitoscedk: bechamel: i also think that many people would understand module and client section. there are only two points on client section that are move dev related: - Invisible state on list views.  - The record model is shown on form log.13:53
udonocedk: ...just tell how I've seen in other changelogs...13:53
bechamel2 all: for you who will read this news ? more user or more devs ?13:54
cedkbechamel: what is a dev and what is a user?13:55
udonocedk: bechamel: and btw. Its not the informations hg log provides. Changelog entries are more condensed and reduced and just the facts...13:55
yangoonbechamel: if you make a release announcement it is to go public to get customers. and customers want to know features, not technical insight.13:56
cedkudono: we put in CHANGELOG what has changes and hg log all the modification/bugfix13:56
udonobechamel: changelog will be read by both and release anouncement will be read more by users...13:56
cedkyangoon: I don't agree, we make announce for everybody13:57
udonocedk: ok13:57
Timitoscedk: dev is a developer doing his own modules for example. user is somebody interested to use tryton but has no dev skills.13:57
CIA-48udo.spallek * r564 /wiki/ Edited wiki page through web user interface.13:59
cedkTimitos: for me, it is not so clear because you will have some that can not write a module but will understand the changes in the server13:59 * r565 /wiki/ Edited wiki page through web user interface.13:59
cedkTimitos: and will be interested by those change to know the possiblities13:59
cedkTimitos: and what he can ask to others companies to develop14:00
yangooncedk: you cannot make one suitable announce for everybody, one group will always be bored by non-interesting stuff14:00
Timitoscedk: maybe. but i am sure that somebody like this would read the complete announcement. so i think the idea of bechamel to put the user related stuff on top is a good idea.14:01
bechamelimho, the end user of an erp will never read a release announcement (or at least he we not wait eagerly for it), the end user doesn't wait for new features on an erp and if he is waiting for a new features this means that he has already ac ontact with a tryton-related company14:01
yangooncedk: and staff in enterprises responsible to take decisions is thinking a lot like simple customers14:01
yangooncedk: bechamelor why do you think so many enterprises are (stil) using windows?14:02
cedkyangoon: I don't agree, most of those guys are interrested by "buzz"14:02
cedkbechamel: by the way, you must put on top a description of Tryton14:03
cedkbechamel: like for the 1.014:04
bechamelcedk: " A new version of tryton, the famous three-tiers high-level general purpose application platform, is now available" :p14:06
paepkemay i give my opinion as an ousider?14:09
Timitospaepke: feel free14:09
paepkea user will never read a release note. even the "buzzy" features are not interested. imho the guy who is responsible for the system itself, and he should know what he does, tells the user what are the new functions.14:11
cedkpaepke: but here, it is a announce for everybody, we will post it on many news websites14:12
paepkecould get a normal user the erp system running without the knowledge of some internals like datebase and the backgrounding model structure?14:12
Timitospaepke: but i think that a release note on also should have effect on new people interested in tryton but not only on those that are already using tryton14:12
Timitoswe need to make tryton well known in the public and a release announcement is one of the instruments for that.14:14
cedkTimitos: +114:14
cedkand in fact, we don't care so much that people read the all announce, we just want that they know we exist and we do hard work and progress14:15
paepkeok, the news should be the buzz-stuff. if someone is interested in deeper structures he should read a technical note.14:15
paepkefor me the technical notes are something like: what should i look at upgrading or new models, changes in api14:16
Timitoscedk: and this is why i say that a release note must fulfill the needs of people with programming skills and of people without them. even people without installation skills like some decision makes should find something interesting in this release announcement14:16
cedkTimitos: yes, you don't need to convince me14:17
bechamelcedk: if we want buzz, the news should be completely different, it must be shorter and it must focus on some of the best new features14:17
Timitoscedk: that fine :-)14:17
yangoonbechamel: +114:17
cedkbechamel: no, we don't want only buzz and the buzz will not come from the content14:17
paepkeTimitos: thats a good point with the target group. what about short news with buzz and a "read more"-link for technical background?14:18
cedkbechamel: we must not discredite the project with "buzz" announce14:18
Timitoscedk: +100014:19
cedkthe "buzz" will come with simply the news14:19
Timitoscedk: forget buzz. we should argue with our new functionality.14:19
bechamelmaybe one should create two text: one press release with buzz and user centric stuff an another with all the new features14:19
cedkbechamel: no, it is the same14:19
Timitosi also think that it is the same.14:20
yangoonI would differentiate between three different docs: release announce -> for the public (buzzwords), release notes -> what has to be done on upgrade, technical notes -> sort of combined  and explained changelog14:20
cedkbechamel: and boring readers is not a problem. Nobody on the web is bored by reading, he just stop and read next news14:20
cedkyangoon: second = CHANGELOG14:21
bechamelcedk: of course it's a problem, because he will miss some features that may interest him14:21
cedkbechamel: but you can not put the right feature for everybody on top14:22
cedkbechamel: and it is not a issue because people don't need feature14:22
yangooncedk: you don't want every user to read through all repos for the single changelogs14:22
bechamellook at the websites that put a news about the 1.0 release: they are not intersted by "new depends attribute on fields" or "introspection with xmp-rpc" it's out of scope14:23
cedkbechamel: people are excited when they know the feature14:23
cedkyangoon: but you don't know which modules he has installed14:24
cedkbechamel: we don't care. We must have a lot of content14:24
cedkbechamel: we must show to the world that Tryton is living project14:25
Timitoscedk: but i still think that the order is important to reach all readers14:25
bechamelcedk: yes but we should "promote" the best one like we did for the 1.0 news14:25
yangooncedk: you have to communicate the changes, that happened with new tax rules and groups, to the upgrader. That is what IMHO Release Notes are for.14:25
cedkyangoon: it is in the CHANGELOG14:26
yangoonACTION out14:27
cedkbechamel: no all14:27
cedkTimitos: propose an order?14:27
Timitoscedk: think of somebody that succeded to install tryton from distruibution packages. he will not read the CHANGELOG i think14:28
bechamelmy idea is to add a new paragraph on top that resume: 1) what is tryton 2) what are the 2 or 3 best new features, and then after the complete list14:28
cedkTimitos: why?14:28
cedkbechamel: example?14:29
bechamelcedk: example: the 1.0 news:
Timitoscedk: why? this is a good question. i donĀ“t know why. but i know that there are some people working like this.14:31
cedkTimitos: if there is something to do after upgrade with distrib package, it is the distriv package that must warn the user14:32
cedkTimitos: and why user will not read CHANGELOG but any other files?14:32
cedkbechamel: but for this one14:32
cedkbechamel: what is your 2-3 features?14:33
bechamelcedk: i never read changelog actually14:33
Timitoscedk: but the distribution package can warn the user if we warn the packager: panthera, sharkcz what do you think about?14:34
paepkefor me as admin i always read the changelog to see what has changed. even in the distrib packages14:34
bechamelcedk: 2-3 features: historization, integrated shipment exception, warnings, email as attachement14:35
cedkbechamel: but do you run a server like an ERP?14:35
Timitosbechamel: i would not put warnings there but online VAT validation and the mac os x client14:36
cedkbechamel: propose a text14:36
cedkI think that it will be very difficult to aggre on what is important14:37
cedkbecause every changes are important otherwize we will not do it :-)14:37
cedkor do it later14:37
bechamelcedk: i'm ok with vies and macos :)14:37
Timitoscedk: yes. it is always from the point of few.14:37
cedkbechamel: I think you could first re-order the points because I think you put it in history order14:39
bechamelactualy it's not a list of important stuff, but a list of stuff that is eye catching for peoples taht doesn't know tryton. The guy that already know it will read the full text.14:40
paepkei would prefer to read first some text to feel comfortable, then read some major changes. after that the rest as small points devided into backend, client (maybe windows, linux, mac devided)... normally you can describe the major changes with text14:41
sharkczTimitos: Fedora uses PackageKit as GUI tool for doing updates and it is possible to show the user a copy of upstream changelog or show an URL where the changelog resides14:41
CIA-48matb roundup * #996/Sort order of Menus/Complete Names: This is exactly what I have done. Another screenshot ;(14:42
Timitossharkcz: thx for this information. do you prefer one of these options. what would you recommend from your point of view?14:44
sharkczTimitos: I would prefer a changelog on tryton's web so I can only place a pointer in the user visible update notes14:50
Timitossharkcz: so i think there should be some warnings then there were major changes14:54
Timitoscedk: so i think what sharkcz needs is not the release announcement but something else14:56
sharkczTimitos: yes, they should, but don't plan to do any major (or incompatible) update during the live (12 months) of one distro release14:57
pantheraTimitos: sure we can give out messages to the user if they are justified14:59
panthera(debian that is)14:59
pantheraalso, we have /usr/share/doc/$package/NEWS.Debian which gets automatically displayed to $user14:59
pantheraif he uses the right tools (e.g. synaptic)15:00
Timitospanthera: thx15:00
bechamelpanthera: i imagine that  is too big for this (and should be splitted by modules)15:05
cedkthose things are in CHANGELOG15:10
CIA-48ced roundup * #996/Sort order of Menus/Complete Names: So it is ordered on name.15:11
pantherabechamel: that too, yes. however, NEWS.Debian is to be kept really short,15:13
pantheraand only tell people about changes that would break their existing setup.15:14
pantheranot about shiny new features.15:14
bechamelpanthera: ok15:14
CIA-48Carlos Perell? Mar?n <> default * 462:c6c90c328a28 account/es_ES.csv: More es_ES fixes15:19
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CIA-48matb roundup * #996/Sort order of Menus/Complete Names: Do you expect a column to be sorted by some subitem?15:29
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CIA-48carlos roundup * #996/Sort order of Menus/Complete Names: From that screenshot, what I would expect is that we sort first by the parent item and then by child instead of using the inner child.15:35
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CIA-48ced roundup * #996/Sort order of Menus/Complete Names: This is not possible without storing the value.16:05
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CIA-48C?dric Krier <> default * 21:a92b05af9582 account_be/account_be.xml:16:42
CIA-48Fix account.type.template for the "Bilan"16:42
CIA-48Fix account.account.template for new deferral and type16:42
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CIA-48juanfer roundup * #1001/Problem including a new city inside a subdivision as Amazonas: [new] When I try to insert a new city as Leticia, in the Subdivision Amazonas, I try to say to with parent belong to, but it display me four names ...16:44
CIA-48ced roundup * #998/Analytic invoice: shows all analytic accounts of all companies: [closed] Duplicate with issue99716:49
CIA-48ced roundup * #999/Lot of warnings when building server documentation: [resolved] You must build the documentation from a place where trytond is importable in python16:50
CIA-48 * r566 /wiki/ Edited wiki page through web user interface.16:57
CIA-48C?dric Krier <> default * 76:4cd09434287e analytic_account/account.xml: Add missing rule on company of analytic account for issue99717:12
CIA-48ced roundup * #997/Analytic Account shows accounts from other company: [resolved] Fix with changeset 4cd09434287e17:12
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CIA-48Mathias Behrle <> default * 1762:b2d2e2a76b91 trytond/trytond/ir/de_DE.csv: Update translation for de_DE17:17
CIA-48Mathias Behrle <> default * 1763:0e7afab60776 trytond/: merge17:17
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CIA-48Mathias Behrle <> default * 1288:12812935c33a tryton/share/locale/de_DE/LC_MESSAGES/ ( tryton.po): Update translation for de_DE17:18
CIA-48Mathias Behrle <> default * 1289:489002f3d803 tryton/: merge17:18
CIA-48C?dric Krier <> default * 31:b78b4f1738a4 country/country.xml: Add missing form/tree views to subdivision for issue100117:22
CIA-48ced roundup * #1001/Problem including a new city inside a subdivision as Amazonas: [resolved] Fix with changeset b78b4f1738a417:23
CIA-48ced roundup * #1000/Happy Birthday Tryton!: [need-eg] We could change the rounding for 0.05, this will work but I would like to know exactly when it is needed to round. Per example on an inv ...17:36
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CIA-48C?dric Krier <> default * 191:b58f398d94e3 gentoo-overlay/dev-python/relatorio/ (Manifest relatorio-0.5.1.ebuild): Version bump20:35
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CIA-48vengfulsquirrel roundup * #1002/KeyError: 'sub_for_product': [new] Traceback (most recent call last): File "/trytond/protocols/", line 47, in run res = dispatch(host, port, 'NetRPC', *msg) F ...22:33
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vengfulsquirrelOops that bug is totally has nothing to do with the tryton codebase, how do I undo a bug report ?  Just close it ?22:36
CIA-48vengfulsquirrel roundup * #1002/KeyError: 'sub_for_product': [closed] Oops this bug has nothing to do with the tryton codebase, sorry about that.22:51
bechamelvengfulsquirrel: no problem for the bug, it's enough to close ti22:52
vengfulsquirrelokay thanks, yeah i just closed it22:53
bechamelvengfulsquirrel: btw if you have some times to quickly check this
bechamel.. and tell me if you see some english error, it would be helpful.22:55
vengfulsquirrelWant me to just suggest the changes in IRC or somewhere else ?22:57
vengfulsquirrel*over IRC22:57
vengfulsquirrelnm, I'm going to just re-paste it22:58
bechamelvengfulsquirrel: it's up to you, but the easiest imho is to clic copy and edit it22:58
bechamelvengfulsquirrel: I will do a difff after to spot the modifications22:59
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CIA-48Bertrand Chenal <> default * 1764:f2066eca208a trytond/trytond/ (6 files in 5 dirs):23:22
CIA-48Change output_format (One2Many) to extension (Selection) on
CIA-48This will ease future addition of new report extension.23:22
vengfulsquirrelbechamel: What did you mean by this?(under client changes)  - Edition on the Many2Many widget.23:24
bechamelvengfulsquirrel: this means that when you clic on "add" on a many2many widget there is a "new" button on the popup window23:25
bechamelvengfulsquirrel: no sorry23:26
bechamelvengfulsquirrel: this means that you can now double-clic on an item of a M2M widget and this wil open the form view in a popup23:26
bechamelvengfulsquirrel: don't forget to give me the link once finished23:52
vengfulsquirrelYeah sorry I'm re-reading it now, what do these mean:23:53
vengfulsquirrel- Duplication on several records.23:53
vengfulsquirrel- Account: new tax rule system, update of account chart from template.23:53
bechamelvengfulsquirrel: duplication: it's now possible to select several lines on a list view  and then clic on Form > Duplicate to duplicate all of them23:58
vengfulsquirrelTo do something like clone a sale?23:59
vengfulsquirrelbechamel: ^23:59
bechamelvengfulsquirrel: yes23:59

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