IRC logs of #tryton for Friday, 2010-03-26 #tryton log beginning Fri Mar 26 00:00:02 CET 2010
2010-03-26 05:18 -!- yangoon( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 05:48 -!- mr_amit(~amit@ has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 07:16 -!- mr_amit(~amit@ has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 07:35 -!- vengfulsquirrel( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 07:41 -!- sharoon( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 07:41 -!- enlightx( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 07:52 -!- Mayank(~fortune@ has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 08:02 -!- sharkcz( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 08:38 -!- cedk(~ced@gentoo/developer/cedk) has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 08:52 -!- Timitos(~timitos@ has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 09:20 -!- essich( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 09:46 -!- Varunkumar_OL(~VARUN@ has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 09:49 -!- Mayank_OL(~fortune@ has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 10:39 -!- paepke( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 10:46 -!- cedric_b( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 11:01 -!- paepke_( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 11:06 -!- paepke_( has left #tryton
2010-03-26 11:16 -!- paepke( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 11:17 -!- Mayank_OL(~fortune@ has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 11:43 -!- oiaohm(~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 11:50 <oiaohm> cedk I worked out what is required to make what I want work. Only one thing I am not looking forward to the alteration. Lot of areas where the system will be depending on a single id primary key value. Will have to be replaced with three values. Internal used primary key, source id and source key
2010-03-26 11:51 -!- Varunkumar_OL(~VARUN@ has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 11:54 <cedk> oiaohm: don't understand
2010-03-26 11:57 <cedk> oiaohm: you want to change in Tryton the internal id?
2010-03-26 11:57 <oiaohm> If there is a source id(Ie name server/client that operates async) with source numbers( being like asyncs client own primary key values). Ie source being for async client or multi server setups.
2010-03-26 11:58 <oiaohm> Yep to allow servers or clients with own server to operate independant to each other and merge data latter. cedk
2010-03-26 11:59 <cedk> oiaohm: just create a model that will store the map
2010-03-26 11:59 <oiaohm> Also provides tracking back to who added what.
2010-03-26 12:00 <oiaohm> I was thinking of allows like the old paper based recept book system. cedk
2010-03-26 12:01 <oiaohm> Ie each recept book has its own id to it numbers so people with there own servers can genate the invoices on location straight up.
2010-03-26 12:01 <oiaohm> All that is important is that the data all syncs up perfectly in the end.
2010-03-26 12:03 <cedk> oiaohm: the map will be: reference field, external id
2010-03-26 12:03 <oiaohm> At min the invoice numbers would have to be changed.
2010-03-26 12:04 <oiaohm> to allow on location generation.
2010-03-26 12:04 <oiaohm> Ie so printed invoice and invoice record in main server matchs up.
2010-03-26 12:08 -!- enlightx( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 12:11 -!- paepke( has left #tryton
2010-03-26 12:11 <cedk> oiaohm: don't understand
2010-03-26 12:11 <oiaohm> When you print a invoice you have to put a invoice number on it.
2010-03-26 12:12 <oiaohm> You cannot have the invoice number duplicated up.
2010-03-26 12:12 <oiaohm> And if the machine is doing that not connected to main server. It has to have a way to know what range of numbers it can use.
2010-03-26 12:15 <oiaohm> Basically a ID number of not connected like 111 and invoice from that machine 222. And the printed invoice number being 111:222 Main server would be using different number like 100:<invoices geneated on server>
2010-03-26 12:15 <cedk> oiaohm: it is impossible to have invoice generation in async way
2010-03-26 12:16 <oiaohm> No its not.
2010-03-26 12:16 <cedk> oiaohm: because law requires that the invoice number are in an increasing sequence
2010-03-26 12:16 <oiaohm> Ok where.
2010-03-26 12:17 <oiaohm> Here the important thing is that overlap is not possiable.
2010-03-26 12:18 <cedk> oiaohm: the legislator made this to ensure that you don't fraud
2010-03-26 12:18 <oiaohm> I am in Australia by the way cedk
2010-03-26 12:18 <cedk> oiaohm: otherwise it is too easy the generate invoice and not declare it to state
2010-03-26 12:19 <cedk> oiaohm: I'm pretty sure that the Australia law do the same, otherwise it is too easy to fraud
2010-03-26 12:19 <oiaohm> No we have to declare all existing invoice books. Just like receipt books.
2010-03-26 12:20 <oiaohm> Each zone has to be increasing sequence
2010-03-26 12:20 <oiaohm> But we are not forbin from having multiable zones.
2010-03-26 12:22 <cedk> oiaohm: so just append an unique prefix
2010-03-26 12:22 <oiaohm> Yep the prefix here to a new list of invoice has to be unque.
2010-03-26 12:23 <oiaohm> And also unless you want auditors picking on you sequenial.
2010-03-26 12:24 <cedk> oiaohm: you can not enforce this on different database
2010-03-26 12:24 -!- paepke( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 12:24 <cedk> oiaohm: you must just make a right configuration
2010-03-26 12:26 <cedk> oiaohm: but is your business so big that you require such configuration?
2010-03-26 12:27 <oiaohm> Not that big lots mobile staff.
2010-03-26 12:28 <oiaohm> There are a few ways central server set the ids. cedk
2010-03-26 12:28 <cedk> oiaohm: and you must generate invoce on the road?
2010-03-26 12:29 <oiaohm> Prefered if possible. This way clients cannot claim they did not get the invoce.
2010-03-26 12:31 <cedk> oiaohm: what you make them sign a paper that said they receive your invoice?
2010-03-26 12:31 <oiaohm> Its more the post here. It is possiable for a letter to get lost for 3 months at a time.
2010-03-26 12:32 <oiaohm> On a post path that will normally take under 1 day.
2010-03-26 12:33 -!- ikks(~ikks@ has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 12:34 <oiaohm> Of course with trouble making clients we already have to have them sign paper to say we did X work or they will try to worm out of paying anything. So having those sign for invoice really would not be anything different either.
2010-03-26 12:38 <cedk> oiaohm: very weird that you can not rely on post
2010-03-26 12:39 <cedk> oiaohm: and you don't have internet access on the road?
2010-03-26 12:39 <oiaohm> Not everywhere unless you go up to sat.
2010-03-26 12:40 <oiaohm> And portable sat is expensive.
2010-03-26 12:41 <cedk> oiaohm: how much customer have you in place where there is no internet?
2010-03-26 12:41 <cedk> oiaohm: because I think you must compare the amount with the cost of developping an async invoicing system
2010-03-26 12:42 <oiaohm> About 60 percent of customer base are sat only.
2010-03-26 12:44 <cedk> oiaohm: and so your customers don't have internet?
2010-03-26 12:44 <oiaohm> Intersting question how does USA handle people using paper invoice books with pre printed numbers like 1 to 100.
2010-03-26 12:44 <oiaohm> They have internet cedk by sat that we may or may not be allowed to use.
2010-03-26 12:44 <oiaohm> Mostly because sat internet is not cheep.
2010-03-26 12:45 <cedk> oiaohm: just make your customers pay more if they don't allow you to use their internet connection :-)
2010-03-26 12:45 <oiaohm> Also some have data secuirty polices as well.
2010-03-26 12:45 <cedk> oiaohm: by the way, what is your business?
2010-03-26 12:46 <cedk> oiaohm: are you sure what kind of company could not have a descent internet connection but have security experts inside?
2010-03-26 12:46 <oiaohm> Remote area IT . This includes flying to properities.
2010-03-26 12:47 <oiaohm> locations.
2010-03-26 12:47 <oiaohm> Issue is not that the customer does not have descent internet connection. Some of there connections are pure VPN links back into there main networks.
2010-03-26 12:48 <oiaohm> Not like every business has to allow their staff to internet surf.
2010-03-26 12:52 <cedk> oiaohm: so you give invoice to branch and not to the headquarter
2010-03-26 12:54 <oiaohm> Lots of these branch has to enter there costs. The data is then transfered to headquaters electronically.
2010-03-26 12:55 <oiaohm> Yes some mining companies for you cedk
2010-03-26 12:57 <cedk> oiaohm: it is a very specific case
2010-03-26 12:58 -!- paepke( has left #tryton
2010-03-26 12:58 <oiaohm> I think it would be worth while to look into if the USA system would support independ blocks of invoices.
2010-03-26 12:59 <oiaohm> Ours is a very special case. But I have seen a fairly large retailer here run into trouble due to a central server pos going down.
2010-03-26 13:00 <oiaohm> Yet another one have the same problem but using a system where each pos was a independant group of invoice numbers ie basically could stand on own feet. Have no issues at all.
2010-03-26 13:01 <oiaohm> Yes you feel the different as the IT person sorting the failure out.
2010-03-26 13:02 <cedk> oiaohm: your main issue is that you want to generate invoice on the road
2010-03-26 13:02 <cedk> oiaohm: generally POS makes only sales and not invoices
2010-03-26 13:03 <cedk> oiaohm: because most of the time invoice are reviewed by accountance
2010-03-26 13:04 <oiaohm> These poses I am refering to could do layby as well so yes could generate invoices. cedk
2010-03-26 13:05 <oiaohm> I just looked up the rules on an Australian Tax Invoice. Nasty enough I don't have to have invoice numbers at all.
2010-03-26 13:08 <oiaohm> So my law here has a lot more flex than yours cedk
2010-03-26 13:10 <oiaohm> Really the only restriction here is how much of a pain on ass do you want auditors to be.
2010-03-26 13:14 <oiaohm> Ok UK allows prefixing with the requirement that all invoice numbers are unique. Does not have to be even ordered.
2010-03-26 13:15 <oiaohm>
2010-03-26 13:17 <oiaohm> I guess there is no site comparing all the difference legal requirements for invoices around the world. cedk
2010-03-26 13:17 -!- cedk(~ced@gentoo/developer/cedk) has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 13:21 <oiaohm> cedk: what was the last line of mine your saw.
2010-03-26 13:21 <oiaohm> I think I am going to have to do a bit of homework on world invoice number requirements.
2010-03-26 13:21 <oiaohm> Australia where I am we have none. If you have a invoice number it your choice.
2010-03-26 13:22 <oiaohm> Uk the requirement is that the number is unique
2010-03-26 13:22 <oiaohm> And that is the only requirement.
2010-03-26 13:22 <oiaohm> It don't even have to be a number it could be a word or text or anything.
2010-03-26 13:30 <cedk> oiaohm: in Belgium, it must be a logical incremental serie
2010-03-26 13:31 <cedk> oiaohm: in Australia, do you have taxes?
2010-03-26 13:32 <cedk> oiaohm: and if yes, can tax amount from company to company be deduced
2010-03-26 13:32 <cedk> ACTION lunch
2010-03-26 13:38 <oiaohm> cedk: under gst tax invoices yes. But Our goverment has a Linux super computer for auditing businesses. Invoices are compared between companies. When they audit they audit complete sections at a time.
2010-03-26 13:47 <oiaohm> cedk: other thing placing date on australian invoices is a requirement.
2010-03-26 13:51 <oiaohm> cedk: tax office here is working by date.
2010-03-26 14:18 -!- gremly( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 14:21 -!- paepke( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 14:36 -!- enlightx( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 14:36 -!- tekknokrat(~gthielebe@ has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 14:46 -!- Red15(~red15@unaffiliated/red15) has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 14:47 -!- gremly( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 14:58 <cedk> sharoon, Red15: about the protocols available
2010-03-26 14:59 <cedk> there is netrpc (custom python), xml-rpc and json-rpc (for 1.6)
2010-03-26 14:59 -!- paepke( has left #tryton
2010-03-26 14:59 <cedk> in the client no need to select a protocol because client only talk netrpc
2010-03-26 15:00 <cedk> we choose netrpc because it is faster then any others
2010-03-26 15:01 <Red15> hmm, but default also has support for xml-rpc ?
2010-03-26 15:01 <Red15> so maybe not enabled by default but it's still there
2010-03-26 15:02 <Red15> trying to get tryton to run here, having DAV import problems
2010-03-26 15:02 <Red15> not really interested in DAV though
2010-03-26 15:02 -!- cedk(~ced@gentoo/developer/cedk) has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 15:03 <Red15> <Red15> trying to get tryton to run here, having DAV import problems
2010-03-26 15:03 <Red15> <Red15> not really interested in DAV though
2010-03-26 15:03 <Red15> not yet that is
2010-03-26 15:04 <cedk> Red15: which default are you talking?
2010-03-26 15:04 <cedk> Red15: to have WebDAV you must install pywebdav
2010-03-26 15:05 <cedk> Red15: otherwise don't activate it
2010-03-26 15:08 <Red15> well i used the automatic install
2010-03-26 15:08 <Red15> the error happens in calendar module
2010-03-26 15:08 <Red15> do i just remove/disable calendar module ?
2010-03-26 15:09 <cedk> Red15: calendar module requires pywebdav
2010-03-26 15:09 <cedk> Red15: as it exposes calendar on CalDAV
2010-03-26 15:10 <cedk> Red15: in Tryton, we try to enforce user to only install modules they need
2010-03-26 15:10 <cedk> Red15: and no more
2010-03-26 15:10 <Red15> ok so unlike openerp you dont need calendar module just for basic meeting appointments ?
2010-03-26 15:11 <sharoon> Red15: there are no unnecessary dependencies... i see that its extremely minimal in tryton
2010-03-26 15:11 <sharoon> Red15: see there is no bulky base module
2010-03-26 15:14 <cedk> Red15: I don't know what you except for "basic meeting appointments"
2010-03-26 15:14 <Red15> well i'm only familiar with openerp crm and it's calendar functions, i figured tryton would have similar buildup around crm
2010-03-26 15:15 <Red15> my first remark might be a bit silly but it bugs me, the trytond needs to be launched from bin, but modules is not inside this dir
2010-03-26 15:15 <Red15> so i have to continually switch in and out of the bin dir
2010-03-26 15:17 <cedk> Red15: no, you can launch trytond from any directory
2010-03-26 15:21 <Red15> i know but not from trytond dir :) because it complains when you run python or so
2010-03-26 15:21 <Red15> don't really care for the client vertical tabs, it makes people tilt their head
2010-03-26 15:21 <cedk> Red15: of course, Python requires a trytond module
2010-03-26 15:21 <cedk> Red15: bin/trytond is there to allow that
2010-03-26 15:22 <cedk> Red15: that is really common in Python package
2010-03-26 15:22 <Red15> so is tryton already usable as a library then ?
2010-03-26 15:23 <sharoon> Red15: yes and did u see the article on django + tryton?
2010-03-26 15:23 <cedk> Red15: yes of course, we try to follow Python standard
2010-03-26 15:24 <cedk> Red15: you can install trytond with: easy_install trytond
2010-03-26 15:24 <cedk> Red15: it works
2010-03-26 15:24 <Red15> oh ok , but it doesnt have any modules by itself then right ?
2010-03-26 15:25 <Red15> hmm : AttributeError: 'etree._ElementTree' object has no attribute 'iter'
2010-03-26 15:25 <Red15> when trying to print party letter
2010-03-26 15:26 <cedk> Red15: which version of lxml?
2010-03-26 15:26 <cedk> Red15: and which OS?
2010-03-26 15:26 <Red15> can't really say i'm utterly impressed by tryton so far to be honest
2010-03-26 15:27 <Red15> ubuntu 8.04
2010-03-26 15:27 <Red15> like i have a WebDAV menu in configuration even though i have removed calendar module completely
2010-03-26 15:27 <Red15> Source: lxml
2010-03-26 15:27 <Red15> Version: 1.3.6-1
2010-03-26 15:28 <cedk> Red15: if you have installed webdav module
2010-03-26 15:29 <cedk> Red15: you must update lxml
2010-03-26 15:29 <cedk> Red15: at least 2.0
2010-03-26 15:30 <Red15> why doesnt relatorio or even the module checks for version instead of just blindly assuming the version is correct ?
2010-03-26 15:32 <cedk> Red15: I will fix to enforce lxml >=2.0
2010-03-26 15:32 <Red15> ah i see, because lxml totally doesnt specify a version checking mechanism inside python ...
2010-03-26 15:32 -!- paepke( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 15:33 <cedk> Red15: it is especially because lxml doc doesn't specify when a feature have been added
2010-03-26 15:33 <Red15> at this point i still feel tryton lags behind in ease, it's a very subjective feeling i know
2010-03-26 15:35 <cedk> Red15: if you want easy install, just take the package from ubuntu
2010-03-26 15:35 <cedk>
2010-03-26 15:35 <cedk> Red15: of course it is easy with OpenERP because they embed library
2010-03-26 15:36 <Red15> dont really understand why you need lxml anyway to be honest
2010-03-26 15:36 <Red15> any xml parsing i have done with python (and i admit it isn't much) i've done with the default embedded xml tools of python
2010-03-26 15:37 <Red15> and i realize speed may not be one of the strong points of the default xml tools for python, but be honest, xml isn't chosen for its speed ... ever
2010-03-26 15:38 <cedk> Red15: relatorio use lxml for odt parsing
2010-03-26 15:38 <cedk> Red15: and there speed is important
2010-03-26 15:39 <cedk> Red15: and default python xml parsing has not enough fonctionnality to be able to perform all the XML operation we need
2010-03-26 15:39 <cedk> Red15: there is not support for xpath
2010-03-26 15:42 <cedk> Red15: I already write a patch to remove lxml from trytond
2010-03-26 15:42 <cedk> Red15: but removing it from relatorio is more difficult
2010-03-26 15:42 <cedk> Red15: so I did not apply the patch because we still require lxml
2010-03-26 15:46 <Red15> the webdav isnt a module, it's in the trytond directory itself...
2010-03-26 15:47 <Red15> it's the collections , so it's enabled by default as well ?
2010-03-26 15:48 <cedk> Red15: it is a module
2010-03-26 15:49 <cedk> Red15: there is some default module in Tryton: ir, res, webdav and workflow
2010-03-26 15:50 <cedk> Red15: if you generated the database with "trytond -d database -i all"
2010-03-26 15:50 <cedk> Red15: of course you have webdav activated for this database
2010-03-26 15:52 <Red15> used the client creation method
2010-03-26 15:53 <Red15> i can understand ir, res and workflow, but why webdav as well ?
2010-03-26 15:53 <cedk> Red15: so webdav module must not be activated by default
2010-03-26 15:54 <Red15> still it creates the webdav -> collections menu in the configuration
2010-03-26 15:54 -!- rednul_( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 15:56 -!- woakas( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 15:57 <cedk> Red15: which version?
2010-03-26 15:57 <Red15> mercurial checkout
2010-03-26 15:57 <Red15> with the script
2010-03-26 15:58 <Red15> translations loading is very slow it seems ?
2010-03-26 15:59 <Red15> hope you're not getting totally angry at me for these live comments btw :)
2010-03-26 15:59 <sharoon> Red15: it may not be translations
2010-03-26 15:59 <sharoon> Red15: it must be the countries and states
2010-03-26 15:59 <Red15> i did a select * from pg_stat_activity;
2010-03-26 16:00 <cedk> Red15: oops, my fault webdav is activate by default
2010-03-26 16:00 <Red15> SELECT * FROM (SELECT "account_account".id AS id,"account_account"."create_date" AS "create_date","account_account"."reconcile" AS "reconcile","account_account"."write_uid" AS "write_uid","account_account"."code" AS "code","account_account"."right" AS "right","account_account"."create_uid" AS "create_uid","account_account"."template" AS "template","account_account"."type" AS "type","account_account"."parent" AS "parent","account_account"."company" AS "co
2010-03-26 16:00 <Red15> mpany","account_account"."write_date" AS "write_date","account_account"."active" AS "active","account_account"."second_currency" AS "second_currency","account_account"."kind" AS "kind","account_account"."deferral" AS "deferral","account_account"."left" AS "left",(COALESCE("account_account".write_date,"account_account".create_date)) AS _timestamp FROM "account_account" LEFT JOIN "ir_translation" AS "ir_translation_account_account_name" ON ("ir_translation
2010-03-26 16:00 <Red15> _account_account_name".res_id = "account_account".id AND "ir_translation_account_account_name".name = 'acco
2010-03-26 16:00 <cedk> Red15: I think it is to not have error when user activate webdav
2010-03-26 16:00 <Red15> ouch, sorry didnt realize it was this long
2010-03-26 16:00 <cedk> Red15: please use copy/paste webservice
2010-03-26 16:00 <Red15> cedk, wouldn't you use depends for that instead ?
2010-03-26 16:01 <Red15> making a small module and making all webdav related modules depend on this
2010-03-26 16:01 <cedk> Red15: network interface are not based on modules
2010-03-26 16:01 <Red15> yet it does contain a
2010-03-26 16:02 <cedk> sharoon, Red15: yes country and currency are a little bit slow to work but they contains all the countries and all the currencies
2010-03-26 16:03 <Red15> loading tax_be.xml
2010-03-26 16:03 <cedk> we already improved it in comparaison to OpenERP
2010-03-26 16:03 <Red15> almost 10 minutes ...
2010-03-26 16:03 <sharoon> cedk: i really dont mind it because the simple delay in installation gives great benefits in using and hence saves time in using
2010-03-26 16:04 <sharoon> cedk: and being iso codes states and country was great help in our integration with paypal
2010-03-26 16:04 <Red15> still is this expected ? 10 minutes for a 90kb xml file ?
2010-03-26 16:04 <cedk> sharoon: agree, it is better to have all countries or any but not a subset
2010-03-26 16:05 <sharoon> Red15: 10 mins not sure
2010-03-26 16:05 <cedk> Red15: it depends of your hardware
2010-03-26 16:05 <Red15> openerp does this in less than 10 sec ... ?
2010-03-26 16:05 <Red15> same hardware
2010-03-26 16:05 <cedk> Red15: what did you install?
2010-03-26 16:05 <Red15> account_be
2010-03-26 16:06 <cedk> Red15: so country, currency and account_be
2010-03-26 16:06 <Red15> + the dependencies, but just the tax_be.xml is running for the last 10 minutes
2010-03-26 16:06 <cedk> Red15: it is the three bigger modules
2010-03-26 16:07 <Red15> but loading country.xml took 30~ seconds
2010-03-26 16:07 <sharoon> Red15: cedk: never used module account_be :P
2010-03-26 16:07 <Red15> ok it's finally done
2010-03-26 16:07 <sharoon> Red15: country is ok, look at the countries & states installed
2010-03-26 16:07 <sharoon> Red15: its full
2010-03-26 16:07 <Red15> bah unfortunatly i can't paste a log because this xml was the last
2010-03-26 16:08 <Red15> but it rand for 12 minutes at least
2010-03-26 16:08 -!- paepke( has left #tryton
2010-03-26 16:11 <cedk> Red15: made the same install on my old PC, 4mins
2010-03-26 16:11 <Red15> very weird
2010-03-26 16:12 <Red15> [ 22.101280] Calibrating delay loop (skipped), using tsc calculated value.. 4988.07 BogoMIPS (lpj=9976140)
2010-03-26 16:12 <Red15> [ 22.537304] Calibrating delay using timer specific routine.. 4988.04 BogoMIPS (lpj=9976097)
2010-03-26 16:12 <Red15> model name: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T9300 @ 2.50GHz
2010-03-26 16:12 <Red15> model name: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T9300 @ 2.50GHz
2010-03-26 16:13 <sharoon> Red15: i have a 256 mb ram cloud on rackspace and it takes lesser time but with ubuntu 9.04
2010-03-26 16:13 <Red15> any tweaking on postgres ?
2010-03-26 16:14 <Red15> mine just ran out of the box
2010-03-26 16:14 <cedk> Red15: the same but on Gentoo
2010-03-26 16:15 <cedk> and bogomips: 4000.14
2010-03-26 16:15 <cedk> on single core cpu
2010-03-26 16:18 <cedk> sharoon: got sale_opportunity that generates sale
2010-03-26 16:18 <sharoon> cedk: cooooool!!
2010-03-26 16:18 <cedk> sharoon: just still need some access rights definition to be tryton standard compliant
2010-03-26 16:18 <cedk> sharoon: do you want to review already it?
2010-03-26 16:18 <sharoon> cedk: did u remove those buttons array
2010-03-26 16:19 <cedk> sharoon: yes just three buttons
2010-03-26 16:19 <sharoon> cedk: ok
2010-03-26 16:19 <cedk> sharoon: cancel|lost|...
2010-03-26 16:19 <cedk> sharoon: I also make that the workflow stop on cancel and lost
2010-03-26 16:20 <cedk> sharoon: but you can reset to lead
2010-03-26 16:20 <sharoon> cedk: yes, otherwise it wont let delete the record
2010-03-26 16:20 <cedk> sharoon: I also improved history
2010-03-26 16:21 <sharoon> cedk: yeh for generic nature all fields have to be displayed in history? was that the improvement?
2010-03-26 16:21 <cedk> sharoon: it did no more display double records
2010-03-26 16:21 <cedk> sharoon: so all fields are displayed
2010-03-26 16:21 <cedk> sharoon: I also add history on lines
2010-03-26 16:22 <cedk> sharoon: and with the workflow there is two write at the creation
2010-03-26 16:22 <sharoon> cedk: ok, its very important for DM & DW!! hopefully i can do some work on that
2010-03-26 16:22 <cedk> so now for the double create/write it show only one history line
2010-03-26 16:22 <cedk> sharoon: who is DM & DW ?
2010-03-26 16:22 <Red15> cedk why did you choose to do translations in flat csv files? and not in a directory (and po)
2010-03-26 16:23 <cedk> Red15: because it fit the translation mecanism of Tryton
2010-03-26 16:23 <cedk> Red15: the translation mecanism is also use for records created by users
2010-03-26 16:24 <Red15> i know but openerp does use po and can generate po files from your ir.translation records
2010-03-26 16:25 <cedk> Red15: there is
2010-03-26 16:25 <sharoon> cedk: DM- Data mining & DW-Data warehousing... i am actually specialising on that :)
2010-03-26 16:25 <cedk> Red15: I think it can not work correctly because ir.translation is more precis about the string to translate then a po file
2010-03-26 16:26 <Red15> i find it hard to believe that po would not be able to handle this
2010-03-26 16:26 <Red15> in fact po should not even care about where it is used, it just takes every occurance of word and replaces it
2010-03-26 16:27 <cedk> Red15: in Tryton (and also OpenERP) you can have the same string translated with different words
2010-03-26 16:27 <Red15> yea, my proposed solution is to have text on screen generated uniquely
2010-03-26 16:27 <Red15> and always load a default language english which translate label#593 (for example) to Sales
2010-03-26 16:27 <cedk> Red15: and I think that we must stay as closed as possible of the internal format otherwise you have issue like with the sxw|rml|pdf stuffs
2010-03-26 16:28 -!- juanfe( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 16:28 <cedk> Red15: I don't think it is a good solution because how do you handle translation of records generated by users?
2010-03-26 16:28 <cedk> Red15: like product name
2010-03-26 16:29 <Red15> record_id + fieldname ?
2010-03-26 16:29 <Red15> uh model + record_id + fieldname
2010-03-26 16:29 <cedk> Red15: it is already the case
2010-03-26 16:30 <cedk> Red15: and what about reports, you want to create it with code instead of words?
2010-03-26 16:30 <Red15> if you select no language it can output unique identifiers
2010-03-26 16:30 <Red15> preferably the coder would use unique references
2010-03-26 16:30 <Red15> instead of using readable names
2010-03-26 16:32 <Red15> and the system in openerp actually kinda works, but i know some po tools mangle the comments and things can go wrong when trying to import those, but that is basically just a bug in openerp
2010-03-26 16:32 <cedk> Red15: our current implementation works also
2010-03-26 16:32 <Red15> it's just that you say you want to stay as close to other opensource
2010-03-26 16:33 <Red15> po is the way 90% (or more) use for translations
2010-03-26 16:33 <cedk> if somebody write a correct export/import script to do it, I have no objection
2010-03-26 16:34 <cedk> but I will not spend my time on this
2010-03-26 16:34 <Red15> i understand, but its exactly what i wanted to hear
2010-03-26 16:34 <Red15> because these kind of discussions are just shot down usually
2010-03-26 16:35 <cedk> Red15: I prefer improve other stuff then that
2010-03-26 16:35 <Red15> cedk, i understand that, but can you also understand that the reason po files work and are used is because there is more to translation than you might have considered at this point ?
2010-03-26 16:36 <Red15> same as with most opensource technology, dont try to reinvent the wheel because someone who made a special wheel will have thought of more issues than you will because your wheel is only used in one or the other way, not in as many ways as the generic wheel is
2010-03-26 16:37 <cedk> Red15: but I will be very punctilious about the implementation, it must work correctly
2010-03-26 16:37 <Red15> absolutely, that is your responsibility
2010-03-26 16:38 <Red15> but it's not responsible if you would say: i never want po files
2010-03-26 16:38 <cedk> Red15: yes, but I can say I will never want to have mo files :-)
2010-03-26 16:38 <Red15> i'll rename those then :D
2010-03-26 16:38 <cedk> Red15: because gettext is not thread-safe
2010-03-26 16:39 <cedk> Red15: and trytond has already a database
2010-03-26 16:39 <Red15> yes, i agree the database structure is good, it's the import/export that could benefit from .po
2010-03-26 16:39 <Red15> because it will make work for translators easier
2010-03-26 16:40 <Red15> in fact instead of only having po files i would suggest to make it a plugin like system
2010-03-26 16:40 <cedk> Red15: but an other point is that I find good that we must use the tryton client to make translation that forces us to improve his usability
2010-03-26 16:40 <Red15> because there are other standards for translation files
2010-03-26 16:40 <cedk> Red15: no really agree for plugin system
2010-03-26 16:41 <cedk> Red15: we must have one way to do it
2010-03-26 16:42 <cedk> Red15: it is the Python philosophy :-)
2010-03-26 16:42 <cedk> sharoon: do you think we must have a group for opportunities or use the sale one?
2010-03-26 16:43 <Red15> cedk, so you do not agree for plugin like system ?
2010-03-26 16:44 <Red15> cedk, one way to do it yes, but possibly many implementations, why else have PEP 249 ?
2010-03-26 16:44 <Red15>
2010-03-26 16:45 <cedk> Red15: because each language translator will want to use different plugin
2010-03-26 16:46 <Red15> so ? as long as all the data can be read into the database and then possibly exported again to be uniformly distributed
2010-03-26 16:46 <cedk> Red15: this will break the homogeneity
2010-03-26 16:46 <cedk> Red15: you will need to have the plugins to run trytond
2010-03-26 16:46 <Red15> no, only to load this data
2010-03-26 16:47 <cedk> Red15: so to run it is the same
2010-03-26 16:47 <cedk> Red15: you need to load the data when you create a database
2010-03-26 16:47 <Red15> so it would only become a dependency if the distributor of this module distributes his translations in this format
2010-03-26 16:47 <cedk> Red15: but you don't have one translator, you have one per language
2010-03-26 16:48 <Red15> so you would rather turn people with translating skills away than have an open choice of import format ?
2010-03-26 16:48 <Red15> one per module possibly too
2010-03-26 16:48 <cedk> Red15: I think it is a waste of time
2010-03-26 16:48 <cedk> Red15: of course you want to make your own module, I don't care
2010-03-26 16:49 <Red15> i'm not planning to make all those modules
2010-03-26 16:49 <Red15> but people want to have a choice
2010-03-26 16:49 <cedk> but Tryton will have a prefered way by default
2010-03-26 16:50 <Red15> if that's the official viewpoint thats ok, as long as the other ways arent blackholed
2010-03-26 16:50 <cedk> Red15: look
2010-03-26 16:51 <sharoon> cedk: i think a separate secutity level for opportunities is better, and the sales users could have this permission too
2010-03-26 16:51 <cedk> sharoon: agree
2010-03-26 17:39 -!- paepke( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 17:48 -!- fladi(~fladische@2001:5c0:1505:7e00:494:7ff:fe17:ba6f) has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 17:49 <cedk> sharoon: do you think everybody can read opportunities?
2010-03-26 17:50 <sharoon> cedk: i am not sure but dont think its a good idea... i remember my client set record rules to say that closed leads could not be read by the lower level sales reps and customer care
2010-03-26 17:51 <sharoon> cedk: the converted leads must not be available for read to low level users?
2010-03-26 17:54 -!- tekoholic( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 17:55 <cedk> sharoon: ok by default no read access, people who want it will create a model access
2010-03-26 17:55 <cedk> sharoon: because the other way will make it almost impossible to deactivate access
2010-03-26 17:55 <sharoon> cedk: yes because default rules cannot be modified
2010-03-26 18:02 <cedk> sharoon: the issue is that we allow read access to sale to any user
2010-03-26 18:05 <sharoon> cedk: i think we leave it open
2010-03-26 18:05 <sharoon> cedk: but allo user to define rules
2010-03-26 18:05 <cedk> sharoon: "allo" ?
2010-03-26 18:06 <sharoon> cedk: typo :) let users define rules
2010-03-26 18:09 -!- vengfulsquirrel( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 18:18 <cedk> sharoon:
2010-03-26 18:25 -!- tekoholic(~quassel@ has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 19:22 -!- enlightx( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 19:54 -!- cedk(~ced@gentoo/developer/cedk) has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 20:37 -!- juanfe( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 21:10 -!- tekoholic(~quassel@ has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 22:16 -!- vengfulsquirrel( has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 22:27 -!- pepeu(~manuel@ has joined #tryton
2010-03-26 22:29 -!- gremly( has joined #tryton

Generated by 2.17.3 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!