IRC logs of #tryton for Friday, 2011-06-17 #tryton log beginning Fri Jun 17 00:00:01 CEST 2011
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2011-06-17 10:39 <timewulf> cedk: hi, sorry, I couldn't resume our discussion yesterday, my actual project goes into final phase and from one moment to the other work explodes. In about 2 weeks I've got more time and will take part in the tryton project more actively. In the meantime I'll use short breaks just to get my development machine in a usable shape and to try out some use-cases in German and English menus. We then can go on with our discussion and invite others inte
2011-06-17 10:47 <cedk> timewulf: ok I will try to send a resume on mailing list next week
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2011-06-17 11:31 <timewulf> cedk: ok, cu later, I'm away now
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2011-06-17 21:55 <allhailtco> sacht mal, wie sieht das eigentlich mit kostenrechnungskram aus? so von wegen sich irgendwie seine deckungsbeitragszahlen ziehen aus dem vorhandenen
2011-06-17 21:55 <allhailtco> unterst├╝tzt einen da tryton irgendwie oder bleibts einfach beim excel
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2011-06-17 22:30 <sharoon> version2beta: ping
2011-06-17 22:50 <nicoe_> allhailtco: this is an english channel. There is a german channel on if you're more confortable speaking your own language
2011-06-17 22:57 <version2beta> sharoon: I'm here. Was coding.
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2011-06-17 22:57 <version2beta> sharoon: Aren't you flying or something? Is this IRC at 10k meters?
2011-06-17 22:58 <sharoon> version2beta: thanks for your kind words, really motivating
2011-06-17 22:58 <sharoon> version2beta: I am waiting at JFK
2011-06-17 22:58 <sharoon> version2beta: just flew in from miami an hour back
2011-06-17 22:58 <version2beta> sharoon: Oh good. You're welcome. Obviously I admire your work.
2011-06-17 22:59 <version2beta> sharoon: So you are living in Miami more-or-less?
2011-06-17 22:59 <sharoon> version2beta: not exactly, but more or less :D
2011-06-17 23:00 <version2beta> Not married, no kids I hope? Done the more-or-less thing and it can be hard.
2011-06-17 23:00 <sharoon> version2beta: yep!
2011-06-17 23:01 <version2beta> sharoon: What's in Florida for you? Long-term customer, or is Openlabs coming here too?
2011-06-17 23:02 <sharoon> version2beta: at the moment its a long term customer and Openlabs in US is something in the long term .
2011-06-17 23:03 <version2beta> sharoon: Most excellent. I really would like to work with you sometime. You already have much of the code I feel we need. Feel like visiting beautiful Milwaukee? Nice contrast to Dubai...
2011-06-17 23:04 <sharoon> version2beta: would love to of course. I should be back by 10th of July.. would be even better if we could do some hacking into tryton ?
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2011-06-17 23:06 <version2beta> sharoon: Definitely. Probably ought to finish the UPS stuff I'm supposed to be working on first though. But might be by the 10th.
2011-06-17 23:06 <sharoon> version2beta: is it for tryton or openerp ?
2011-06-17 23:07 <version2beta> sharoon: OpenERP. Do you have an overview of the Openlabs module? I looked at NovaPoint's and didn't like the code structure.
2011-06-17 23:07 <version2beta> sharoon: Probably could use Openlabs actually, should have enough margin in the job.
2011-06-17 23:08 <sharoon> version2beta: sure, can i confirm this to you tomorrow ?
2011-06-17 23:08 <sharoon> version2beta: our code structure is very different. We have a python module and then the openerp side module. So we should soon have the same functionality on tryton
2011-06-17 23:09 <version2beta> sharoon: Of course. Confirm what though? UPS code or a visit to Milwaukee?
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2011-06-17 23:09 <sharoon> version2beta: did u see the new carrier and shipping module by B2CK ?
2011-06-17 23:09 <version2beta> sharoon: Oh good. I figured on extending delivery.carriers to support plugging into a dynamic pricing system.
2011-06-17 23:10 <version2beta> sharoon: No, I didn't. Will go find that!
2011-06-17 23:10 <sharoon> version2beta: i will confirm the code release (we are open sourcing the code of the UPS module, I just have to get the confirmation from my colleague
2011-06-17 23:10 <sharoon> version2beta: the tryton carrier code is here
2011-06-17 23:10 <sharoon>
2011-06-17 23:11 <version2beta> sharoon: Good good! Hanging with the kids this week. I'll read code :-)
2011-06-17 23:11 <version2beta> sharoon: b2ck's is for Tryton I presume, not OpenERP?
2011-06-17 23:11 <version2beta> sharoon: (I'll know soon enough)
2011-06-17 23:11 <sharoon> version2beta: of course its tryton
2011-06-17 23:12 <sharoon> version2beta: but i just loved the way cedk did it, but probably might need extending to compute price based on sale orders as well
2011-06-17 23:12 <version2beta> sharoon: I figured as much. Cedrickrier doesn't talk about OpenERP often, but I figure he's not working both sides of that equation. It'd be awfully uncomfortable.
2011-06-17 23:13 <sharoon> version2beta: after getting introduced to tryton, I myself hate working with openerp.... reading openerp code is one of my worst nightmares
2011-06-17 23:14 <version2beta> sharoon: Openlabs' UPS met the shared development goal? I figured we'd be putting E600 into it.
2011-06-17 23:14 <version2beta> sharoon: I can relate, and I'm still not doing nearly enough coding. Much more tech support it seems.
2011-06-17 23:14 <sharoon> version2beta: which is exactly what I wanted to confirm with my colleague, I am not sure yet, but i know for sure it is almost done
2011-06-17 23:15 <version2beta> sharoon: Plus I'm still coming up to speed on Python. Years of Perl and PHP primarily, with a dozen-plus others over time.
2011-06-17 23:17 <version2beta> sharoon: I said it off the cuff, but I think I can be quite serious about visiting here. Get you speaking engagements locally too?
2011-06-17 23:18 <sharoon> version2beta: Sure, would be glad to be part of any such activity
2011-06-17 23:18 <version2beta> sharoon: So when were you introduced to Tryton? I had the impression it was at least '09, and you'd done the openlabs site in it. But didn't Callisto happen after that?
2011-06-17 23:19 <sharoon> version2beta: yes callisto happened after that
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2011-06-17 23:21 <version2beta> sharoon: I know this is like a permanent record, and I'm not trying to put you on the spot. I am curious if Callisto works well. Is it enterprise-ready? And does Nereid have the same functionality?
2011-06-17 23:21 <sharoon> version2beta: we already had tryton doing our internal accounts and credits, we integrated our django website with it. So support tickets were automatically charged for and customers could pay through a gateway for their invoices in tryton and so on
2011-06-17 23:22 <sharoon> version2beta: callisto is about 10 times slower than nereid, though the infrastructure both are based on are kind of same
2011-06-17 23:23 <version2beta> sharoon: Curious who you use for payments - next module I need to write is for Cybersource.
2011-06-17 23:23 <sharoon> version2beta: paypal and ccavenue (an indian payment gateway)
2011-06-17 23:27 <version2beta> sharoon: Thank you. I feel like I'm coming off a bit grabby. In many ways I'm a newbie, haven't really contributed much but some tech support on IRC, and I keep asking about getting my eyes on your code. Only written a handful of custom modules for data imports and specialized catalog data so far - nothing generally useful.
2011-06-17 23:28 <version2beta> sharoon: I'm 41 years old, feel like an annoying college kid saying "Can I see? Can I?" ;-)
2011-06-17 23:29 <sharoon> version2beta: dont hesitate to ask, will be glad to share whatever my little knowledge is.
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2011-06-17 23:30 <version2beta> sharoon: You built a Tryton-based ecommerce site with millions of products, having trouble picturing your knowledge as "little". If you'd been able to disclose it, I'd have been poking around it all day.
2011-06-17 23:31 <version2beta> sharoon: Plus it seems you're working with Midwest Supplies, a company I'm familiar with. Or maybe Raphael was just giving Openlabs credit for the connector work in addition to his client.
2011-06-17 23:32 <sharoon> version2beta: wait for some more time, and you will have the code to poke aroudn with
2011-06-17 23:32 <sharoon> version2beta: we work with midwest
2011-06-17 23:32 <version2beta> sharoon: No problem. I will learn as I go.
2011-06-17 23:33 <version2beta> sharoon: Offered Raphael help if someone is needed locally. I go to mpls a couple times a year, and our work radius has been growing as our projects get into 6-figures.
2011-06-17 23:34 <sharoon> version2beta: thats great, Midwest funded quite a bit of the complex developments in magento connector
2011-06-17 23:37 <version2beta> I'm glad to hear that. I haven't considered how complex that project is - worked with Magento less than a month initially and rejected it (Feb 2008 I think, right around initial release), and have only done minor projects for customers on Magento since.
2011-06-17 23:38 <version2beta> sharoon: I can imagine it's a tricky project. Both OpenERP and Magento seem somewhat fragile, at least from the perspective of a developer not expert in either.
2011-06-17 23:39 <sharoon> version2beta: agree on that
2011-06-17 23:39 <sharoon> version2beta: which is why i built some basic test suite to test if magento web services is broken
2011-06-17 23:39 <sharoon> version2beta:
2011-06-17 23:39 <version2beta> sharoon: And not trivial either.
2011-06-17 23:41 <sharoon> version2beta: so we could run the test suite to check if magento still works the way you want it too (even with a combination of other plugins which usually break an implementation of magento)
2011-06-17 23:43 <version2beta> sharoon: I think I've backed myself into a corner with the blog posts on Tryton as an ecommerce back-end. When I get to the general spec, I'm going to have to admit that ecommerce systems have been a compromise; that the e- in front indicates they don't do enough commerce.
2011-06-17 23:43 <version2beta> sharoon: Then I have to point out that a package like Tryton is designed to do all the aspects of commerce, or at least to be extensible enough to do it.
2011-06-17 23:44 <version2beta> sharoon: Net effect is that the front end to a Tryton back end needs to do everything Tryton does, at least from a customer's perspective, including any customizations.
2011-06-17 23:45 <sharoon> version2beta: there are quite a few challenges when it comes to e-commerce system, especially when they go large scale. We have to sacrifice consistency for availability and partition tolerance in the e-commerce part (but tryton and its RDBMS nature makes it designed for consistency)
2011-06-17 23:46 <version2beta> sharoon: So in effect, the question becomes how to make an effective web framework for Tryton that allows non-technical people to manage a site.
2011-06-17 23:46 <sharoon> version2beta: exactly.
2011-06-17 23:47 <version2beta> sharoon: Understood. But the more Tryton does, the more the question becomes how do you scale Tryton, not how to scale the front-end.
2011-06-17 23:47 <version2beta> sharoon: That's my strategy so far, anyway.
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2011-06-17 23:48 <sharoon> version2beta: Tryton scales beautifully, except for the inherent limitations in the DBMS itself
2011-06-17 23:49 <sharoon> version2beta: like, the transactions, serialised cursors etc
2011-06-17 23:49 <version2beta> sharoon: Have you done postgres clustering? It's not built-in as I recall.
2011-06-17 23:50 <sharoon> version2beta: no, where we required such scalability we use mongo db and map reduce. also search was something we took completely outside tryton for large datasets. Integrated it with sphinx
2011-06-17 23:50 <version2beta> sharoon: Seems like you want to assign clients to servers. Round-robin plus assignments, for example, and sync servers. Doesn't help with high availability but does help with load balancing.
2011-06-17 23:51 <version2beta> sharoon: Sphinx search? I know there's another pythonic sphinx project, don't remember what it does.
2011-06-17 23:51 <sharoon> version2beta: yep, most of the long running processes are built around rabbit mq and celery
2011-06-17 23:52 <version2beta> sharoon: I've seen the mongodb extension, definitely saw the benefit, except the scalability doesn't benefit the core DB work.
2011-06-17 23:52 <version2beta> sharoon: I don't know rabbit mq or celery. Will have to read up.
2011-06-17 23:53 <sharoon> version2beta: ok
2011-06-17 23:55 <version2beta> sharoon: My wife (who is also my boss and owns the company) just sent me the current Magento description of the community version. "... recommended for expert developers and highly technical enthusiasts and hobbyists in non-mission critical environments ... used by those happy to spend time and resource solving issues independently"
2011-06-17 23:56 <sharoon> version2beta: +1
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2011-06-17 23:56 <version2beta> sharoon: She smiles at you.

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