IRC logs of #tryton for Friday, 2009-09-04

chat.freenode.net #tryton log beginning Fri Sep 4 00:00:02 CEST 2009
cedkvengfulsquirrel: this is strange00:05
cedkvengfulsquirrel: copy/paste the code you added to sale00:05
vengfulsquirrelHere is the execute output after clicking on Sales: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/137874/00:11
vengfulsquirrelWell I kind of have a bunch of modules00:11
vengfulsquirrelI just create a one 2 many from customer shipment to inventories but my own inventories module.00:13
cedkvengfulsquirrel: I see nothing special00:13
vengfulsquirrelI'm using trunk which I should probably stop doing00:14
vengfulsquirrelalthough it seems like its always pretty stable00:14
cedkvengfulsquirrel: what is your host?00:19
vengfulsquirrelI'm just running it locally right now client to server, its an athlon XP 2700+ with 1.5 gigs of ram running gentoo linux.00:20
vengfulsquirrelIs it possible its waiting on the cron implementation to do something because it keeps calling execute on the cron table?00:20
vengfulsquirrelI guess it has to do that at regular intervals to emulate cron so its just acting normally00:22
cedkvengfulsquirrel: yes00:23
cedkvengfulsquirrel: by the way, the log you copy/paste show it took 3 secs00:23
cedkvengfulsquirrel: and it seems that you have a lot of missing modules00:25
cedkvengfulsquirrel: did you have the same perf issue with the demo server?00:25
vengfulsquirrelI don't know, do I just pull from http://hg.tryton.org/hgwebdir.cgi/1.2/tryton/ to get the client to try it ?00:27
cedkvengfulsquirrel: yes00:28
vengfulsquirrelha wow00:35
vengfulsquirreltook me a while to figure out why the client opened with no buttons or interface, i think i still had the old localhost server running00:36
vengfulsquirrelso in conclusion no it doesn't happen on the demo00:36
vengfulsquirrelonce i connect00:37
vengfulsquirreli double click sales00:37
vengfulsquirreland its fast00:37
vengfulsquirrelbut the demo has no locations00:37
vengfulsquirreland 4 products00:37
vengfulsquirrelI have 1000 locations and a little over 20,000 products00:37
cedkvengfulsquirrel: try to open translations00:38
vengfulsquirrelWhere is that ?00:38
cedkvengfulsquirrel: Administration>Localisations00:38
cedkvengfulsquirrel: is it possible to connect ot your server?00:38
vengfulsquirrelopen translations isn't too slow00:40
vengfulsquirreli mean it stops for a few seconds00:40
vengfulsquirrelbut its fine00:40
vengfulsquirrelNo sorry I don't have port forwarding setup, maybe tomorrow I could get that setup though.00:42
cedkvengfulsquirrel: so I think your logs doesn't show everythings00:44
vengfulsquirrelYeah maybe it wasn't done, let me try it again start to finish.  here is part of one the new modules I just made, http://paste.pocoo.org/show/137879/00:50
vengfulsquirrelMaybe its because I've deleted modules but not actually deleted them from the database.00:50
cedkvengfulsquirrel: it is possibly the Function fields00:52
vengfulsquirrelWow listing the sales cause those to be filled with stuff?00:53
vengfulsquirrelAll those should be empty at this point.00:53
vengfulsquirrelHere it is start to finish http://paste.pocoo.org/show/137881/00:56
cedkvengfulsquirrel: show me the function of Function fields00:59
vengfulsquirreltryting to put on intuxicatino01:03
vengfulsquirrelDo you know why this happens?  http://mercurial.intuxication.org/hg/sale_convert01:06
vengfulsquirrelI can pull it but it just throws errors all over when I try to view it.01:06
cedkvengfulsquirrel: don't know01:09
cedkvengfulsquirrel: but you can copy/paste the functions01:09
vengfulsquirrelcedk: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/137883/01:13
vengfulsquirrelThey are just made from the template of the inventory_moves and outgoing_moves function fields that also use the moves field.01:13
cedkvengfulsquirrel: I don't know, I don't see why there is 1 min spend between 15:53:14 and 15:54:0401:15
vengfulsquirrelYeah okay well thanks for looking at it, I will try to rebuild without the module and then some of my other newer modules and see if it goes away and then maybe I'll have more information tomorrow.01:18
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CIA-2C?dric Krier <ced@b2ck.com> default * 1984:b2fb57d71fb3 trytond/trytond/model/browse.py:09:51
CIA-2Fix test on context and local_cache.09:51
CIA-2Use a new dictionary only if it is None and if it is empty.09:51
CIA-2http://hg.tryton.org/trytond/rev/b2fb57d71fb309:51
CIA-2C?dric Krier <ced@b2ck.com> default * 1985:314683104a6d trytond/trytond/model/browse.py:09:52
CIA-2Use global cache ids only if it is less than IN_MAX otherwise it will generate09:52
CIA-2more SELECT queries in the read function.09:52
CIA-2http://hg.tryton.org/trytond/rev/314683104a6d09:52
CIA-2C?dric Krier <ced@b2ck.com> default * 1986:efeab9443bd8 trytond/trytond/tools/convert.py: Clean cursor cache when reseting BrowseRecord09:52
CIA-2http://hg.tryton.org/trytond/rev/efeab9443bd809:52
CIA-2C?dric Krier <ced@b2ck.com> default * 1987:5834327e9982 trytond/trytond/tools/convert.py:09:52
CIA-2Order BrowseRecordList by id.09:52
CIA-2We have more chance to see records in this order in the XML files.09:52
CIA-2http://hg.tryton.org/trytond/rev/5834327e998209:52
CIA-2C?dric Krier <ced@b2ck.com> default * 1988:29f3eabb8119 trytond/trytond/tools/convert.py:09:52
CIA-2Reset BrowseRecord also after update to keep cache memory low.09:52
CIA-2There is little chance to see again this record in the XML files of the module.09:52
CIA-2http://hg.tryton.org/trytond/rev/29f3eabb811909:52
CIA-2C?dric Krier <ced@b2ck.com> default * 591:71547fabf160 stock/TODO: Remove already done TODO09:52
CIA-2http://hg.tryton.org/modules/stock/rev/71547fabf16009:52
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bechamelyangoon: cedk: 8Go in 15min is quicker than I would have ever expected.10:25
bechamel I remember when I was at tiny for one of the project I was working on, I had to spilt a module with all the data into 30 little modules (a module with more than 30 000 records was maxing the ram).10:26
bechameland btw in the meanwhile we added other features (like avoiding do erase user modification that happened between the initial import and the update).10:26
cedkinterresting paper: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/09/real-world_acce.html10:28
cedkbechamel: http://www.dicocitations.com/citation_internaute_ajout/2947.php10:33
paepkecedk: i agree with bruce, i worked with sarbanes oxley act for three years and helped to implement it in the IT-structure. there were some good points and some bad points.10:35
paepkethere were some ridiculous processes in place.10:36
cedkpaepke: the interesting part, I find, is the "speeding tickets"10:37
paepkefinally my opinion is: too much processes kills innovation in companies. not only in IT10:37
cedkpaepke: I don't know how we could try to apply on Tryton, but it is good to keep it in mind :-)10:37
paepkefor applying "speeding tickets" you have to audit the whole system. we grep'ed through the transaction log and had to analyse the sql-strings.10:46
paepkewell not to implement the speeding tickets. thats a new idea to me, but a good one. we used this to look what were the changes for example in accounting.10:47
paepkeadditionally the history function in tryton is a good start.10:49
bechamelcedk: I have once watch the beginning of this presentation iirc he was talking about using ruby snippets instead of acl: http://www.vimeo.com/272380010:51
cedkpaepke: I was thinking more like adding some controled fuzzy to the control system of Tryton10:51
cedkpaepke: like you can break this rule but no more than ...10:52
paepkecedk: maybe i'm thinking too much the old way :-).10:53
cedkpaepke: we are here to exchange ideas :-)10:54
paepkecedk: on roads you can drive as fast as you can. you will get a speeding ticket after the issue. not during the drive.10:54
cedkpaepke: yes, in stead of "no more than...", it can be if "more than..., we will inform your boss"10:56
paepkeyour idea with a fuzzy control will still implement the old way10:56
paepkecedk: ic.10:56
paepkei haven't had a deeper look in the current tryton acl system10:59
paepkewhat is already possible10:59
cedkpaepke: it is globaly ACL11:00
cedkpaepke: you have or not access to this ressource11:01
paepkeis it possible to restrict it field-base. like having access to a customer party and not access to a supplier party?11:03
paepkesorry, the question goes to cedk11:04
cedkpaepke: yes, it is what we call record rules11:04
paepkecedk: ok. great.11:08
paepkecedk: imho there should be a -maybe- printed report to sign the "speed ticket" by the boss. and for workflow purposes a possibility to give this employee for future more access rights.11:11
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gourmorning11:55
gourafter more than 2hrs of constant swapping and tooking over all the resources, openerp/medical module was killed being unable to load/parse 14M xml file :-/11:57
gournot very impressive :-(11:58
gournow, i disable loading of that file to get, at least, a sneak preview how does it look like11:58
gour(it's hard to port something you don't even know how it looks like :-D)11:59
cedkgour: did you see: http://groups.google.com/group/tryton/browse_frm/thread/ad80ab5d265d558311:59
gourcedk: yep, you did some caching tricks, right?12:03
cedkgour: memory management12:03
cedkgour: due to new cache management12:04
cedkgour: it is not in <= 1.212:04
gourheh, but the guy was importing 8GB :-)12:04
gourand me only 14M :-/12:04
gourbtw, i've tryton-dev installed locally and ready for exploring...12:05
gourcedk: in any case, Medical is too 'medical' for our needs12:07
cedkgour: remember: "OpenERP is solid" :-)12:07
bechamelACTION laugh12:07
gourcedk: yep, it solidly killing all the resources:-)12:08
gouri'm going to package gnumed for archlinux...12:09
cedkgour: I think you should write your requirements12:12
gourcedk: yep. that why i'm going to package gnumed - it will be more useful to become clear with our res while evaluating gnumed than with medical12:13
gour*that's12:13
gourcedk: do you remember (it is ancient) WP's infocentral?12:14
gourit was nice PIM12:14
cedkgour: no12:16
gouri wonder why i didn't get those updates after running tryton-dev script12:19
yangooncedk: gour btw: there was an error in my post: the xml in question in party_bank_de is 8 MB, not 8 GB12:19
gouryangoon: ahh, ok. i was thinking you possess the whole world, but who knows...12:20
gour:-)12:21
cedkyangoon, gour: it still better12:21
cedkyangoon: did you try with psyco enable?12:21
yangooncedk: no, never enabled it so far, should I do?12:22
yangooncedk: I will report memory usgae and run a test with psyco12:22
gourtryton uses psyco2, right?12:22
cedkgour: psycopg2 for database acces12:22
cedkgour: psyco is a JIT module for python12:23
gouri was thinking about psycopg2 vs v112:23
gourACTION sent mail to medical dev informing him about the performance...12:33
gourlet me package/install gnumed, so i can explore latest version more closely and then i can compose mail to tryton's ml defining more precisely our needs12:34
cedkpaepke: we could also add time on access rules12:36
paepkecedk: even on future? for example guy from purchase changes his job on september to accounting?12:39
cedkpaepke: no, I was thinking about you can access invoice only between 8:00 to 16:0012:40
paepkecedk: ok. take it as a feature request :-)12:41
cedkpaepke: even, I think it must be in a module12:42
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gourACTION got reply from medical dev - they run it with 2GB machines..13:34
gourACTION --> lunch. bbl13:34
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yangooncedk: you were right with removing indexes http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/interactive/populate.html#POPULATE-RM-INDEXES14:44
cedkyangoon: you should try14:59
cedkyangoon: but perhaps not dropping the index on id because it is used for read14:59
yangooncedk: ok14:59
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yangooncedk: won't tryton reinstall the indexes as soon as it begins with the update?15:12
cedkyangoon: yes15:13
cedkyangoon: you should add a hack15:13
yangooncedk:  if I delete the index in init, the model doesn't recreate it?15:14
yangooncedk: where do I have to put the hack?15:15
cedkyangoon: yes you can try in the init15:16
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CIA-2tekknokrat roundup * #1149/taxes not adapted from article categories to position in invoice:15:51
CIA-2[new] I create a article category and set a tax (VAT from SKR-03) for arcticle category. I save all my changes.15:51
CIA-2Then I create an article and se ...15:51
CIA-2http://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue114915:51
CIA-2Timitos roundup * #1149/taxes not adapted from article categories to position in invoice: [chatting] which version of tryton are you running?15:54
CIA-2http://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue114915:54
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CIA-2Timitos roundup * #1149/taxes not adapted from article categories to position in invoice:16:37
CIA-2i tried it with current dev version. for me it is working with account_invoice installed and account_de_skr03.16:37
CIA-2which modules do you have installed?16:37
CIA-2http://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue114916:37
cedkhttp://www.openobject.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4283716:40
cedkreally strange :-)16:40
bechamelcedk: you know if there was a lot of modifications between 5.0.3  and 5.0.0.3  ?16:45
cedkbechamel: yes, they change all the report engine16:45
cedkbechamel: but it seems they are back to 5.0.3, when you click to download you get 5.0.3 but it is displayed in the page 5.0.016:46
cedkreally unprofessional16:46
carloscedk: I think they had problems with the download page16:48
cedkcarlos: yes and they still not release 5.0.4 which is tagged since 1 week16:51
cedkcarlos: and all < 5.0.4 has a big security hole16:51
carlosand anyway, I think 5.0.4 was already out for a while, however, the download page never changed to 5.0.4 and your security bug was fixed but I would expect an urgent minor release with it... and nothing happened yet16:51
carloscedk: oh, is 5.0.4 including your patch?16:52
carlosI thought it was post 5.0.416:52
cedkcarlos: no, but there was an other issue16:52
carlosok16:52
cedkcarlos: yes in fact all release has a security hole :-)16:52
cedkcarlos: an < 5.0.4 has at least two :-)16:52
gourinteresting policies in openerp...17:04
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gourACTION just posted (via gmane), as advised here, more about his reqs for the triton module17:31
gourlatest trunk is installed and running under ssl...what else is required to start with the tryton? there is even full moon here :-D17:32
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bechamelgour: what else is required... for using it or for developing modules ?17:40
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gourbechamel: well, i assume i'll need 'both'17:44
gourbechamel: although in the beginning 'developing' would probably mean 'customizing'17:44
gourwhen will be possible to uninstall modules?17:45
bechamelnothing is planned17:45
gourit says (beta) and greyed out17:46
gourbechamel: have you seen my latest post to ml?17:47
bechamelyes I have some comments17:47
gourgood :-)17:48
gourhmm, strange thins is happening here...after disconnecting client, server dies with "Fatal Python error: ceval: tstate mix-up"17:51
bechamelgour: it's time for your first bug report :)17:53
gourbtw, does the core 'res' module denote 'resources?17:54
CIA-2tekknokrat roundup * #1149/taxes not adapted from article categories to position in invoice:17:54
CIA-2version in use:17:54
CIA-2tryton/trytond 1.2.217:54
CIA-2account_de_skr03 1.2.017:54
CIA-2account_invoice 1.2.217:54
CIA-2account 1.2.217:54
CIA-2http://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue114917:54
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gourbechamel: let me make it reproducible17:54
bechamelgour: i'm not sure for 'res' it comes from openerp who took it (iirc) from compiere17:55
gourbechamel: ahh, the whole disciplic succession :-)17:56
gourbechamel: what about ir?17:56
bechamelsame anwser :)17:56
bechamelexcept that ir means "interface repository"17:57
gourok. let us at least have some orientation :-)17:58
bechamelir contains more low-level/meta models while res contains models for real-life/business concepts17:59
gourwouldn't be better to have more meaningful names for the modules?18:01
gourat least, this is common situation in python...18:03
bechamelyes maybe, but it would be a big work to change them18:03
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gourbechamel: smart DVCS (like darcs ) can handle renames, not sure about hg18:05
bechamelthe problem is not about the dvcs, it is about modifing a lot of other modules (the module name is used to prefix the models when one want to refer them) and moreover migrating all tables for db that where created before the modification18:07
CIA-2tekknokrat roundup * #1149/taxes not adapted from article categories to position in invoice:18:09
CIA-2[invalid] Hi Timitos,18:09
CIA-2I did a new database from scratch and it works now with article categories. Will investigate with old database when I get ...18:09
CIA-2http://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue114918:09
bechamelgour: and this is because we provide automated migration of db from version to version18:10
gourwell, there are not so many tryton modules atm, and renaming can be done via dvcs' renaming...though the problem is with db tables18:10
Timitoscedk: it would be great if you could give me a short overview about your ideas regarding to the goal: Allow to use email in place of request18:21
Timitosi will start some concept for this18:22
cedkTimitos: I did not think a lot about it18:25
cedkbut the idea is that users are not always on Tryton so if they receive request they don't see it18:26
cedkbut most of people check frequently their email, so the idea is to be able to process email like the request18:27
paepkecedk: just 2 cents. what about a small netrpc client laying in the taskbar?18:29
Timitoscedk: ok. so the user should be able to receive an email with the content of the request and he should be able to answer to the request and perhaps to close it18:29
cedkTimitos: yes, and it must not see it as a request next time he logins18:30
Timitoscedk: ok18:30
cedkpaepke: I think it is creating a new stuff for a old problem solved by emails18:31
Timitoscedk: it also should be possible to create new requests by an email18:32
cedkTimitos: why not18:32
Timitoscedk: it looks like an email-client with some tryton extra stuff18:34
cedkTimitos: don't understand18:34
paepkeemails are in my oppinion not a solution. a lot of people get nowadays annoyed from emails. especially some administrator when they have to backup or archive emails.18:36
paepkeits good to have such a feature. but for me its only for marketing.18:36
Timitoscedk: we need functions to send and receive emails. when emails are received the content should maybe cause some action in tryton18:37
cedkTimitos: yes18:37
Timitoscedk: requests are only internal for user to user communication. should i think of extending it for user to party communication later?18:39
cedkTimitos: I don't know, maybe18:41
paepkei can see requests also as an request from the system to the user. like "safety stock" of article "loo roll" undershot18:41
Timitospaepke: yes. this is also possible18:41
Timitoscedk: ok. so thx for your info. i will think about18:42
Timitoscedk: i don't think that i will succeed in doing it for 1.4 but i will work on it.18:43
udonoTimitos: cedk: what about a complete IMAP or POP3 and smtp referring service which tryton could provide. Upon this we can make some transparent modifications to email-header and evaluate them. It could be possible to store emails depending to projects/parties/... or to archive all incomming emails.18:44
cedkudono: good idea, do you know if there is some python imap library for server?18:46
paepkecedk, udono: twisted.mail18:48
bechamelthere is http://lamsonproject.org/ which is an "email server framework"18:49
paepkecedk, udono: it has all you need. just implement the netrpc backend18:49
paepkebechamel: afaik lamson is "only" the smtp-part18:51
Timitospaepke: thx. i will look at it18:51
bechamelpaepke: yes you are right18:52
cedkpaepke: twisted is an other framework which is perhaps too much for our needs18:52
udonopaepke: Twisted is oversized I think, and afaik hard to tweak.18:52
paepkecedk, udono: you asked for a project to look at :-)18:53
cedkudono, Timitos, paepke: any way, if there is no good module for imap server, I think it is not complicated to write one18:53
udonoThere is smtplib and imaplib in python self.18:53
cedkimap is simple text command18:53
cedkudono: client only18:54
udonocedk: ouch, sorry, didn't recognize18:54
udonoon the other hand with twisted we can reduce dependencies with the other protocolls Tryton use...18:55
udonoand twisted is a highly developed project18:56
udono...means active developed...18:56
Timitoscedk: @all: i think this is an important discussion for future. the topic i see is that it could be interesting to store email communication in a way in which it could be easily related with records in tryton.18:58
cedkudono: I find always bad to add framework over framework18:59
paepkecedk, udono: maybe twisted and tryton can earn from each other from such a project18:59
Timitosi don't know if it is really needed to store the emails in tryton or to do the communication in tryton. but its hard for me to see a good alternative. does anybody have some ideas about this?18:59
cedkTimitos: I find the imap service pretty good, I know there is also a WebDAV protocol for email but it is not very much used18:59
Timitoscedk: this would mean that emails are stored in tryton and should be available for email-clients by IMAP?19:01
cedkpaepke: I don't know enought Twisted to see if it is a good option or not19:01
paepkeTimitos: ack with the "do the communication". you have to write or at least answer mails.19:01
cedkTimitos: yes19:01
cedkpaepke: what is the backend of Twisted?19:02
Timitoscedk: ok. so this should be the vision i need to know when i am starting with this topic19:02
paepkeall: what about accessing emails from an email-archive through an interface? every message has an unique message id. or at least should as per RFC19:03
cedkTimitos: this was not what I thought when writen the TODO list, but it is better19:03
Timitoscedk: :-)19:03
cedkACTION think why didn't think about imap19:04
udonoother point is to create a base structure for mail like informations, to catch asap google waves19:04
paepkecedk: backend? its pure python and it implements severel services you can tweak. like webserver, imap or something like that. i used it to write an tftp-server19:05
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paepkecedk: is has just some things already done. you have to write the backend for yourself.19:05
paepkeudono: yeah, google wave were a cool addon for tryton19:06
cedkpaepke: ok so it sounds good to me19:07
cedkargs, Twisted is MIT license19:08
cedkok, it seems that MIT is compatible with GPL19:10
paepkeoh sorry, i don't mention19:10
cedkTimitos: I think Twisted must be investigated for this purpose19:11
Timitoscedk: yes. sure19:11
Timitoscedk: http://twistedmatrix.com/documents/current/api/twisted.mail.imap4.html ;-)19:12
udonocedk: what about multi threading and the mail-server feature?19:14
cedkudono: I don't understand19:16
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paepkeudono: i don't understand it too19:21
udonocedk: paepke: many parts needed to be threading aware, did the email server part, too?19:32
paepkeudono: maybe this helps: http://twistedmatrix.com/projects/core/documentation/howto/threading.html19:36
cedkudono: I don't know if Twisted if threaded, but it is event-driven which is a different approach then Tryton but I don't think it is a problem (not threaded)19:37
cedkudono: if it is fast enought19:37
paepkewhat about running it as additional process?19:40
cedkpaepke: yes it is what I thought19:41
cedkpaepke: with netrpc calls19:41
paepkecedk: me too19:42
carlosHi, I think I'm late to this discussion19:48
carlosso, do you want to add an IMAP server to Tryton?19:48
carlosor a client?19:48
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paepkecarlos: imap server.19:50
carlosIsn't that too much for the needs we have?19:51
carlosI think something like the OpenErp's mail gateway would be enough19:51
paepkefor example having a crm-module its not. you have to track the mails you write.19:52
cedkcarlos: it will brings the same functionnality but will work with any email client19:52
cedkcarlos: IMAP is a standard protocol19:52
carlosok, let me understand it a bit more...19:53
cedkcarlos: it is like using CalDAV for calendar, CardDAV for contact and so on19:53
carloswill I need to configure my email client to connect to Tryton19:53
cedkcarlos: yes19:53
carlosin addition to my regular email account?19:53
cedkcarlos: yes19:53
carlosWhy not sending the email directly? what we win other than introduce more complexity in the server ? (I just try to understand it a bit better)19:54
cedkcarlos: you send email directly19:54
cedkcarlos: sending email is SMTP19:54
cedkok, I know it is possible to send email via IMAP, but I don't think we need this19:55
carlosso the IMAP Server is just to access the Tryton's copy?19:55
carloscopy or archive19:55
paepkecedk: you could also put an email via the imap-protocol on the server. so only the emails that are tryton-relevant will go into the system. as addition to a normal mailserver19:56
paepkecedk: yes, you got it. had already typed...19:56
cedkcarlos: yes19:56
carloscedk: I understand it now, thanks19:56
cedkcarlos: and you could also imagine to have read access to others imap mailboxes19:57
carlosso I guess we will also have a client or a way to inject emails inside Tryton19:57
cedkcarlos: and even, having the same email showed in different mailboxes19:57
cedkcarlos: the email client can already copy email into imap folders19:57
carloscedk: I know, but If I want to send a new request, isn't more natural to send it by email?19:58
cedkI think that when you start using standard protocol and world of possibilities opens to you, look what we had with the WebDAV19:59
carloscedk: copy it to an IMAP folder is also valid, but is not what people is used to ;-) so that's why I find it kind of surprising, I'm not saying it's a bad idea19:59
carloscedk: indeed19:59
cedkIf we had keep the OpenERP way (ftp), we will not had CalDAV, CardDAV and so on. And we will need to implement plugins for email clients to get contacts19:59
cedkor now with one module, we can have contact in every major email client20:00
cedkcarlos: it could be also a script on SMTP server that forward a copy of email to Tryton20:01
carloscedk: If Tryton dropped webdav for FTP, I would be crying a lot20:01
cedk:-)20:01
cedkbbl20:01
paepkecarlos: copy mails via imap is common for most people. its like sorting your mails in subfolders.20:06
carlospaepke: sure, I do it a lot20:18
carlosbut not to 'send' an email to other user20:18
CIA-2paepke roundup * #1150/bad error when try to select non existing db:20:27
CIA-2[new] running:20:27
CIA-2./trytond -i some_module -d blubb20:27
CIA-2[Fri Sep 04 20:24:54 2009] INFO:database:connect to "blubb"20:27
CIA-2Traceback (most recent call last ...20:27
CIA-2http://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue115020:27
gourACTION hopes some of Tryton devs uses Gnus, Claws-mail and other 'non-corporate' mail-clients :-D20:35
paepkegour: for sure20:40
gourpaepke: good, then we (hopefully) won't be left in the air ;)20:42
carlosgour: We are using standard protocols in Tryton so I don't think it may happen, unless you get a real basic client with poor support for standard protocols ;-)20:45
gourcarlos: i'm mostly using gnus via nnimap (accessing dovecot running on localhost)20:48
vengfulsquirrelcedk: Have there been any changes to trunk that require modifying the database in the last few weeks?21:06
gourhi, in order to advance further in exploring tryton, i'm curios where does development for tryton differs significantly from the openrp one (i'm asking 'cause i browse openerp's docs) ?21:31
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gouris there support for Workflow in tryton?21:56
Timitosgour: yes21:56
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Timitosgour: the development of reports is quite different from openerp as they are done with openoffice tempaltes and not with rml21:57
gourTimitos: i'm not so far (reports), but reading basic about module development in openerp's doc...and workflow is just mentioned21:58
gouri just wonder how to wrap one's head to create views by writing xml :-/21:59
Timitosgour: i am not sure if reading openerp's docs is necessary.22:03
gourTimitos: you have started developing right with the tryton?22:03
Timitosgour: no. some time before i started with tinyerp and switched to tryton when the fork was done22:04
vengfulsquirrelgour: Did you develop in openerp before?22:05
gourheh, i didn't even touch openerp...have to become somewhat familiar with it...22:05
gourvengfulsquirrel: nope22:05
gourhelloworls on wiki is the only doc for starting and that one could be improved22:05
gour*helloworld22:06
vengfulsquirrelI never used openerp as well.22:06
gourany other erp?22:06
vengfulsquirrelNo22:06
Timitosgour: i haven't looked at openerps docs. what are you missing on trytons documentation?22:07
Timitosso maybe we can improve it together22:07
paepkei was currently looking at some poor man optimation when running trytond. psyco is not an option for amd64 platform. why isn't just "python -O trytond" working on python2.5?22:07
paepkeon my 2.6 it looks like its working. but have to investigate it22:08
vengfulsquirrelgour: The openerp docs could actually introduce inconsistencies since the fork has been going for a while.  I would just start by trying to setup a dev environment with the tryton-dev.sh script and then creating the hello world module.  Then you can get a better field for how the other tryton modules work and start copying patterns out of them for your own project.  That's my opinion though maybe someone else has a better strategy22:09
gourTimitos: explaining more about the concepts...what does it mean "The RNG that describes the xml for a form view is stored in trytond/ir/ui/form.rng. There is also a RNC in trytond/ir/ui/form.rnc."22:09
gourvengfulsquirrel: i agree that's one methodology...it would be nice to explain if the helloworld can be developed in several steps and what one is supposed to get after each one22:11
vengfulsquirrelgour: I think it is in steps but you mean like a screen shot after each step?22:12
gourTimitos: the present docs are maybe good as reference...22:13
Timitosgour: the rnc and rng define the allowed structure of the xml files.22:13
yangoon vengfulsquirrel hi22:13
yangoonvengfulsquirrel: what about http://codereview.appspot.com/9506822:13
Timitosgour: yes. maybe the getting started part should be a little bit more22:13
gourvengfulsquirrel: yeah, something like that...i'm not even sure when one step is ending and the next one beginning22:13
vengfulsquirrelyangoon: Hello, sorry I started that reports doc but I have not finished it and I got side tracked22:14
gourTimitos: maybe i'm dumb, but i did not do any xml stuff for long time...it took some time to find out we are speaking about Relax :-)22:14
yangoonvengfulsquirrel: but it seems rather good in progress22:14
yangoonvengfulsquirrel: so isn't it worth a patch soon?22:15
gourTimitos: moreover, you're are aware that wizard, report, workflow are empty :-)22:15
vengfulsquirrelyangoon: I started a ticket for it a while ago and no one read it, but I didn't really push it, I need to remake the patch for the latest trunk and close it up.22:16
yangoonvengfulsquirrel: great, thx22:16
Timitosgour: yes :-) we are still a small group and many of us still work on local integration or our own solutions. so maybe this is the reason for the missing docs22:17
gourTimitos: where one can find explanation for the meanings of the field's parameters?22:17
gourTimitos: i understand, but consider openrp docs may be helpful to get started22:18
Timitoshttp://doc.tryton.org/1.0/trytond/doc/models.html for the fields22:18
yangoonvengfulsquirrel: same for http://codereview.appspot.com/96152, great to have it22:18
gourTimitos: how to decipher what is what here - class trytond.model.fields.Integer(string='', help='', required=False, readonly=False, domain=None, states=None, priority=0, change_default=False, translate=False, select=0, on_change=None, on_change_with=None, depends=None, order_field=None, context=None) ?22:19
yangoonvengfulsquirrel: if you like bechamel or cedk to review it, just set them as reviewers22:19
gourTimitos: i just says "Define an integer field (int)"22:19
gouri am aware of the similar situation in haskell community - great language, but many libs have horrible or none docs22:20
Timitosgour: http://doc.tryton.org/1.0/trytond/doc/models.html#fields-options22:20
gourTimitos: thank you for that22:21
Timitosgour: you are welcome22:21
vengfulsquirrelExplaination of on_change, on_change_with: -- https://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue1118  , Reports -- https://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue111722:22
gourTimitos: in the openerp docs i was reading some about layout of the screen, but i'm not sure i got it, while in tryton docs there is nothing about it22:22
vengfulsquirrelgour: http://doc.tryton.org/1.2/trytond/doc/views.html ?22:23
vengfulsquirrelThat you mean ?22:23
gouri'm thinking about http://doc.openerp.com/developer/2_6_views_events/views/form_view.html22:24
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goure.g. meaning of "The screen composed of a table with a fixed number of columns and enough rows to handle all elements." & "Elements take one or more columns when they are put in the table. If there is not enough free columns on the current row, the elements is put at the begin of the next row."22:25
vengfulsquirrelYeah I think it was an active choice to not include screen shots in the docs because they would be so hard to maintain.22:25
CIA-2matb roundup * #1118/Doc: Explaination of on_change, on_change_with and default for fields.: [chatting] Ping: could one of the maintainers please review, so we can get this in for 1.4? Thx22:25
CIA-2http://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue111822:25
CIA-2matb roundup * #1117/Report Documentation: [chatting] Ping: could one of the maintainers please review, so we can get this in for 1.4? Thx22:26
CIA-2http://bugs.tryton.org/roundup/issue111722:26
gourwhat does it mean "If there is not enough free columns " ?22:26
vengfulsquirrelyangoon: Hey those are the patches against the latest trunk a month ago though, does that matter for now ?22:26
gourvengfulsquirrel: having some separate tutorial could serve the purpose?22:26
yangoonvengfulsquirrel: I don't think, that docs have changed very much...22:27
vengfulsquirrelgour: Yes I think that is the purpose of helloworld, I think its just in the infant stages though right now.22:27
gouropenerp says "Every screen is divided into 4 columns, each column being able to contain either a label, or an “edition” field." is it rue in tryton as well?22:27
gourvengfulsquirrel: hello world requires some clean language at first...although i admire attempt from non-native speaker to provide it22:28
Timitosgour: yes. but you can also define a custom number of columns22:28
Timitosgour: default is 4 columns22:28
gourTimitos: how or from where to learn such things?22:28
gourhaskell got a quite number of people after 'real world haskell' book...so docs is important for recruiting new people to the community...except if tryton is not supposed to live only on refugees :-D22:29
Timitosgour: everything i learned about tryton i learned by try and error or by asking. i started my first module very soon and without many knowledge. it worked for me22:29
gourTimitos: i believe it worked for YOU. but, believe me, there are people accustomed to different methodologies while learning new stuff22:31
vengfulsquirrelgour: I don't think we are arguing with you that the docs don't need work.  We are working on it, its just slow.  I do think that the empty sections should have higher priority though.  Then the details you speak of should come second.22:31
gourTimitos: for trial & error one must have enough time to experiment...22:32
yangoongour: I also started with tryton, don't know code from openerp22:33
gourvengfulsquirrel: i do not have feeling there is heavy argumentation here...i'm just expressing my views from my personal experience about the lack of proper docs to make learning curve less steep22:33
Timitosgour: with a little help from us here you get your first module run in about a day i think. with every little new one you will learn more.22:33
gourand, btw, this is confirmed to me by tryton dev here ;)22:34
yangoongour reading the code is the best thing to get started22:34
gourTimitos: ok, let me express it this way: i'm more top to bottom guy, and you're advising me about the bottom to top approach :-D22:34
yangoongour e.g. a simple module like party22:35
gourACTION needs to understand more about general picture before putting individual bricks together, and i'm sure i'm not the only one22:35
Timitosgour: no. for me reading the code is top-down-method for tryton ;-) because you will not be faced with rng and rnc and such things.22:36
gourheh, maybe i should shout: improve the docs or i'm going back to openerp!22:36
gour:)22:36
yangoongour that won't help you :D22:36
Timitosgour: this is you decision. we only can provide you what we have :-)22:37
gourwith all of you guys, book publishers will soon go all in bankrupt22:38
yangoongour we all would like to have a good extensive documentation, but we all have to do our jobs: it is a matter of time and priorities22:38
vengfulsquirrelWho started this hello world tutorial ?22:39
yangoonACTION has to leave now, gn8 to all22:39
Timitosvengfulsquirrel: i think it was woakas22:39
vengfulsquirrelyangoon: gn22:39
Timitosyangoon: cu22:39
paepkeyangoon: cu22:39
gourg'night22:39
vengfulsquirrelI was just curious why they named the module helloWorld and not helloworld.22:40
gourthe problem is that for all of you docs is not needed, and therefore you cannot be good-enough in estimating its importance :-)22:40
vengfulsquirrelI wish that was True for me.22:41
woakasvengfulsquirrel: no exist a reason22:41
gourjust like when phd haskellers talking about catamorphisms & monad transformers have to explain basic principle to the noob22:42
woakasvengfulsquirrel: if you want to change this well22:43
vengfulsquirrelwoakas: Can I change it to just hello? I think it might be confusing since there is no uppercase in the other modules and I don't know if 'hello.hello' will work.22:46
vengfulsquirrelOh actually I guess it wouldn't matter, but it seems confusing to me.22:47
carlosvengfulsquirrel: hello.hello as the directory name is not a good python name (I'm not sure even if it's valid...)22:47
carlosvengfulsquirrel: for consistency with the other Tryton modules, it should be hello_world IMHO22:47
vengfulsquirrelcarlos: No that is the Model's name, the directory name is helloWorld, I propose to change it to just hello.  So the model hello.hello will reside in /hello/hello.py.22:47
carlosvengfulsquirrel: yeah, the name may be hello.hello, just like party's one is party.party22:48
vengfulsquirrelcarlos: Except for the other modules <name0>_<name1> usually implies an extension of the a module named name0.22:48
vengfulsquirrelcarlos: So I think either hello or helloworld.22:48
vengfulsquirrelSorry if I'm nit picking.22:48
Timitosvengfulsquirrel: yes. if the model is called hello.hello the module should be called only hello. this would be correct for the guidelines. but i already learn that it is hard sometimes to find a good name for a module22:49
Timitos@all: good n8. cu22:50
carlosvengfulsquirrel: hmm google_maps and google_translate is not following your rule ;-)22:50
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carlosvengfulsquirrel: so hello_world would be just like those22:50
paepkeTimitos: n822:50
vengfulsquirrelTimitos: Yes I know, well I'll think about name change but I'm going to fix some words this wiki document was a good idea.22:51
gourTimitos: 'night22:51
vengfulsquirrelcarlos: Ha the tragedy!22:51
gourwho can edit the wiki?22:52
vengfulsquirrelI can edit the wiki, I think, maybe it depends on the page.22:52
carlosvengfulsquirrel: I think the permission is global22:53
carlosgour: If you have any interesting contribution, you can request access to it22:53
carloscedk or bechamel should be able to give you such access22:53
gourcarlos: not yet, my contribution would consist of questions only :-D22:53
carlosgour: then, start with a roundup account ;-)22:54
gourbtw, people who are commenting openerp's docs are burnt as well ;)22:54
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gourcarlos: submitting tickets as RFE in docs?22:54
carlosgour: I don't know what others may think, but I think it may be quite useful to know the areas we should document/improve22:56
gourcarlos: ok. let me think about it.22:57
gournow i'm going to sleep...if you have some suggestion to my query-post in ml, pls. respond ;)22:58
gourg'night22:58
carlosnight22:58
paepkegour: night22:58
paepken823:26
vengfulsquirrelgn23:26
udonosee you23:26
vengfulsquirrelwoakas: Do you have a minute to discuss views?  I'm just trying to proofread this tutorial and I had some questions.23:32
woakasvengfulsquirrel: yes, tell me23:33
vengfulsquirrelFor this part in the second step, '''Add the event for the menu Hello World is important to consider the id ''', do you know why it is necessary to include the model in the xml?23:35
vengfulsquirrelhttp://code.google.com/p/tryton/wiki/HelloWorld23:35
vengfulsquirrelTell me if this is what is happening: We create an event(hello_view_tree), then we connect that event to the tree view(act_hello_form_view1) and form view( act_hello_form_view2) and then we connect the menu item to that event, so now the user double clicks the menu item and it opens the tree view, and if they switch it opens the form view.23:37
vengfulsquirrelwoakas: ^, sorry I always forget to label23:39
udonovengfulsquirrel: nearby23:40
vengfulsquirrel?23:41
vengfulsquirrelnearly?23:41
udonovengfulsquirrel: act_hello_form_view1 and 2 are connected to hello_view_tree and hello_view_form. The sequence says which view will be shown at first, when you call the action act_hello_world_form.23:43
vengfulsquirrelYes, so tree will be shown first.23:43
vengfulsquirrelI guess the confusing part is why is the event of type form?23:43
udonoyes23:43
vengfulsquirrelThe event is type form but its showing a tree(which is really a list).23:44
woakasvengfulsquirrel: this is a view form, view http://doc.tryton.org/1.2/trytond/doc/views.html23:45
udonovengfulsquirrel: yes, there are some problems with the namings. They all come from tinyerp.23:45
udonovengfulsquirrel: not problems, but ambigurities23:46
vengfulsquirrelI guess my question is why does the event have a type and why is it associated with the model it seems that it does not need that information, is that wrong ?23:46
vengfulsquirrelI understand that the form's view needs that information but wouldn't associated the form's view to the event give the event that information ?23:47
udonovengfulsquirrel: no, you are wrong23:48
udonovengfulsquirrel: this 'form' is another 'form' then on type attribute in ir.ui.view definitions23:49
udonovengfulsquirrel: see in /tryton/tryton/gui/window/23:50
udonovengfulsquirrel: the mentioned view_type could be 'tree' or 'board' or 'form'23:51
vengfulsquirrelIs tree like the product inventory by location view?23:52
udonovengfulsquirrel: grep -R "name=\"view_type\">tree" *23:53
vengfulsquirrelhttp://paste.pocoo.org/show/138086/23:53
vengfulsquirrelSo I guess yes23:53
udonoyes23:54
vengfulsquirrelI think you or someone tried to explain that to me in the past.23:54
vengfulsquirrelThe different between a tree view and a tree action.23:54
vengfulsquirrel*difference23:54
udonovengfulsquirrel: yes, remember http://paste.pocoo.org/show/129203/23:55
udonovengfulsquirrel: but I need to go sleep. Good night, see you.23:56
vengfulsquirrelThanks, udono, talk to you later.23:57

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