IRC logs of #tryton for Thursday, 2009-01-08 #tryton log beginning Thu Jan 8 00:00:01 CET 2009
2009-01-08 00:01 <CIA-8> tryton: matb roundup * #735/Update: IntegrityError: duplicate key value violates unique constraint "account_journal_type_code_uniq": [new] On update of an older database: [Wed Jan 07 23:51:59 2009] INFO:init:module:account_statement:loading statement.xml [Wed Jan 07 23:52:01 20 ...
2009-01-08 00:03 <bechamel> vengfulsquirrel: stock moves are created from the actual location of products to the output zone, this allow to see in the packing where to go to find the products
2009-01-08 00:04 <bechamel> vengfulsquirrel: so visualy you see that moves listed on the first tab change their status from draft to assign (if the product are available in the default location, if not the From Location is also updated
2009-01-08 00:06 <bechamel> vengfulsquirrel: if only a part of the product are available on that location the quantity a decreased accordingly and another move is created with a From Location where the same product is avalaible
2009-01-08 00:07 <CIA-8> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 225:f7073118f76b party/ Change party order for ASC
2009-01-08 00:08 <CIA-8> tryton: ced roundup * #728/order_field for party seems not to work: [resolved] It is by name desc but I just change it for asc.
2009-01-08 00:09 <CIA-8> tryton: ced roundup * #735/Update: IntegrityError: duplicate key value violates unique constraint "account_journal_type_code_uniq": [resolved] It was due to bad xml files.
2009-01-08 00:12 <bechamel> vengfulsquirrel: this may help:
2009-01-08 00:13 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah I've read that I just don't understand how all these pieces fit together.
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2009-01-08 00:15 <bechamel> vengfulsquirrel: the doc is a bit dry, unfortunately
2009-01-08 00:19 <vengfulsquirrel> bechamel: When I click assign nothing happens though the state is just stuck on Draft.
2009-01-08 00:20 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: this is because there is not enough product in the stock for assignation
2009-01-08 00:20 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: see
2009-01-08 00:20 <vengfulsquirrel> oh crap nevermind yeah I thought the location was child to Storage Zone but its not
2009-01-08 00:20 <cedk> there is some improvement to do
2009-01-08 00:21 <vengfulsquirrel> okay well that's one problem that probably i can solve, I still cna't open the invoice though because it says there is no Period for the date although I've added a Fiscal Year and a monthly Period, does something else need to be done ?
2009-01-08 00:23 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: are you sure that there is a period for the invoice date
2009-01-08 00:24 <vengfulsquirrel> Hmm yeah but all the periods are closed although the Fiscal Year is open.
2009-01-08 00:24 <vengfulsquirrel> Can I re-open a period?
2009-01-08 00:25 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: yes
2009-01-08 00:25 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: there is a wizard
2009-01-08 00:26 <vengfulsquirrel> Sorry, crap, I didn't realize I had to go to periods and then edit the period and then re-open it. I was trying to do it from the list of periods provided while editing the Fiscal Year.
2009-01-08 00:28 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: it is an other things on the TODO list, adding actions on one2many list
2009-01-08 00:29 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah once you know how to do it though its not that big of a deal since re-opening/closing doesn't happen that often.
2009-01-08 00:30 <vengfulsquirrel> Or well I'd imagine it wouldn't happen very often, I really have no idea.
2009-01-08 00:30 <cedk> yes, but it is better to have users find stuff where they think they are
2009-01-08 00:32 <vengfulsquirrel> Yes, of course.
2009-01-08 00:32 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: by the way, you are from canada?
2009-01-08 00:32 <vengfulsquirrel> California, United States
2009-01-08 00:33 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: ha ok, ca in the ip address is for california :-)
2009-01-08 00:34 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: about accounting stuff maybe there is some stuff that doesn't match the america accounting
2009-01-08 00:34 <cedk> don't hesitate to report us
2009-01-08 00:34 <cedk> as we have not some much knowledge in america accounting
2009-01-08 00:34 <vengfulsquirrel> I honestly know nothing about accounting, but if I learn about US accounting then I will.
2009-01-08 00:35 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: I know that there is not VAT, but it is not a problem with Tryton as you just let the field empty
2009-01-08 00:36 <vengfulsquirrel> VAT is for European taxes right ?
2009-01-08 00:37 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: it is used in Europe but also in some other countries
2009-01-08 00:39 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: we have setup a project for vat number:
2009-01-08 00:43 <cedk> I'm going to sleep
2009-01-08 00:43 <cedk> vengfulsquirrel: bye
2009-01-08 01:20 <vengfulsquirrel> cedk: Thanks, talk to you tomorrow.
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2009-01-08 10:34 <cristi_an> if i install the server to one of the clients and i porvide initially only 3 modules
2009-01-08 10:34 <cristi_an> then after 3 months he needs a 4th one
2009-01-08 10:34 <cristi_an> is is just enough to copy the module on trytond directory
2009-01-08 10:34 <cristi_an> run the install stuff
2009-01-08 10:34 <cristi_an> and it will work
2009-01-08 10:34 <cristi_an> ?
2009-01-08 10:36 <cristi_an> and relate to update ...the same... ?
2009-01-08 10:36 <Timitos> cristi_an: yes for new module. for update you need to take care that you do not rename fields or make problematic changes to field types
2009-01-08 10:38 <cristi_an> so on update not modifiye existing fileds in the database
2009-01-08 10:38 <cristi_an> but new one may be added
2009-01-08 10:39 <Timitos> cristi_an: yes. and there is some possibility to modify existing fields. but be careful with this.
2009-01-08 10:39 <cristi_an> thx
2009-01-08 10:39 <Timitos> cristi_an: an example of a field modification:
2009-01-08 10:40 <Timitos> cristi_an: this kind would be a good way for modifying a field i think.
2009-01-08 10:41 <cristi_an> i see
2009-01-08 10:42 <Timitos> afk
2009-01-08 10:47 -!- bepivin(i=xtc@ has joined #tryton
2009-01-08 10:47 <bepivin> hello
2009-01-08 10:48 <bepivin> nayone can help?
2009-01-08 10:49 <bepivin> anyone can help?
2009-01-08 10:49 <cedk> bepivin: for what?
2009-01-08 10:49 <bepivin> hi cedk
2009-01-08 10:50 <bepivin> i would to know if i could install tryton on a pc where is installed also openerp
2009-01-08 10:51 <cedk> bepivin: it must have no issue, except perhaps that you will see openerp database in the tryton client
2009-01-08 10:52 <bepivin> ah ok. are there any doc on installation steps or are the same of tiny?
2009-01-08 10:52 <bepivin> server, then initdb then client
2009-01-08 10:53 <cedk> bepivin: yes globally
2009-01-08 10:53 <bepivin> ok thanks very much
2009-01-08 10:53 <bepivin> any italian here?
2009-01-08 10:56 <Timitos> bepivin: not today
2009-01-08 10:59 <bepivin> ok last question :)
2009-01-08 10:59 <bepivin> are the binary releases?
2009-01-08 11:00 <bepivin> i see tryton-setup-1.0.2.exe
2009-01-08 11:00 <bepivin> what is the last stable version?
2009-01-08 11:00 <bepivin> i'm on winxp
2009-01-08 11:01 <Timitos> bepivin: you can use tryton-1.0.2.exe it is the tryton client. and this one does not need installation. just use it.
2009-01-08 11:01 <Timitos> bepivin: for the server there is not exe as installation of the server on windows is not recommended
2009-01-08 11:02 <bepivin> mmm
2009-01-08 11:03 <bepivin> bad news for me
2009-01-08 11:03 <bepivin> ok thanks Timitos
2009-01-08 11:03 <Timitos> you are welcome
2009-01-08 11:03 <Timitos> afk
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2009-01-08 11:06 <cedk> bepivin: but you can install the server on windows, you just need to install python, postgresql and some python modules
2009-01-08 11:14 -!- oversize( has joined #tryton
2009-01-08 11:14 <bepivin> thanks cedk
2009-01-08 11:15 <bepivin> you mean i have to compile
2009-01-08 11:15 <bepivin> ore execute the sources?
2009-01-08 11:16 <cedk> bepivin: just execute de source
2009-01-08 11:16 <bepivin> ok
2009-01-08 11:16 <cedk> bepivin: there is win exe for python, postgresql and python modules
2009-01-08 11:17 <bepivin> yes i have postrgres already installed
2009-01-08 11:17 <cedk> we should perhaps think about making a exe for the server also
2009-01-08 11:17 <bepivin> i think it can attract more people
2009-01-08 11:17 <bepivin> :)
2009-01-08 11:18 <bepivin> (if you want to attract more)
2009-01-08 11:18 <cedk> bepivin: the only thinhs is that we don't think it is good to run on windows with production data
2009-01-08 11:19 <cedk> bepivin: by the way, if you want first make some tests, you can use the demo server
2009-01-08 11:20 <bepivin> mmm i don't know the pros and cons, because i'm not a python expert
2009-01-08 11:20 <cedk> bepivin: it is completly useful
2009-01-08 11:20 <bepivin> but i see a server in tiny/openerp
2009-01-08 11:20 <bepivin> and then...
2009-01-08 11:21 <cedk> bepivin: for me this server is not good, because it doesn't give the power to the user to configure his database server
2009-01-08 11:21 <bepivin> what you mean 'configure'?
2009-01-08 11:22 <cedk> bepivin: yes, postgresql is a server so you must create a system user, give grant access etc...
2009-01-08 11:22 <bepivin> ok
2009-01-08 11:22 <bepivin> i've done this
2009-01-08 11:22 <bepivin> with windows
2009-01-08 11:23 <bepivin> no problem for me
2009-01-08 11:23 <bepivin> pgadmin is ok
2009-01-08 11:23 <oversize> hi, as you guys are the only i know that use roundup, i thought maybe one has a hint for why i get this error: !? thank you :D
2009-01-08 11:23 <bepivin> i'm also in adempiere erp
2009-01-08 11:23 <bepivin> no problem
2009-01-08 11:23 <cedk> bepivin: if we make a server exe, we will not embeded postgresql
2009-01-08 11:24 <bepivin> obviously
2009-01-08 11:24 <bepivin> postgres
2009-01-08 11:24 <bepivin> server
2009-01-08 11:24 <bepivin> client
2009-01-08 11:24 <bepivin> 3 pieces
2009-01-08 11:24 <bepivin> 3 setup
2009-01-08 11:25 <cedk> bepivin: more the modules
2009-01-08 11:26 <bepivin> yes
2009-01-08 11:26 <bepivin> in tiny base modules are installed with server setup
2009-01-08 11:28 <bepivin> i remember a year ago i've installed tiny server (with sources): a nightmare
2009-01-08 11:28 <bepivin> (on win xp)
2009-01-08 11:31 <udono> cedk: hi, is it hard to create an exe file from the current tryton 1.1?
2009-01-08 11:32 <udono> cedk: I mean the client only?
2009-01-08 11:35 <udono> cedk: its another topic then from bepivin... (but they look similar :-)
2009-01-08 11:40 <cedk> udono: you need a python env, and run python py2exe
2009-01-08 11:40 <cedk> udono: and after makensis setup.nsi
2009-01-08 11:41 <udono> cedk: I need to create it on Windows?
2009-01-08 11:43 <udono> cedk: sh** I can't create by myself... have no python on windows
2009-01-08 11:44 <cedk> udono: I try with cross-compile, but it doesn't work
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2009-01-08 12:34 <ikks> Ey, openerp will use also .rst and sphinx for the new documentation.
2009-01-08 12:35 <ikks>
2009-01-08 12:43 <cedk> ikks: we show their the right way :-)
2009-01-08 12:43 <ikks> cedk :)
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2009-01-08 12:59 <cristi_an> since the client acts like a browser it createa a connection on each server side action ? or there is a socket connection active as the app starts ?
2009-01-08 13:00 <cedk> cristi_an: only one connection
2009-01-08 13:27 <cedk> oversize: which backend do you use?
2009-01-08 13:40 <CIA-8> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 415:a841f48ad224 stock/ Improve test on product in context and fix some guidelines
2009-01-08 13:43 <oversize> cedk: postgresql
2009-01-08 13:43 <cedk> oversize: so it is just an error of transaction
2009-01-08 13:44 <cedk> oversize: you must have two user that write the same records
2009-01-08 13:44 <oversize> cedk: two users try t write to the same record which causes this?
2009-01-08 13:45 <oversize> hm strange, as there is just the roundup user accessing this db
2009-01-08 13:46 <cedk> oversize: we don't use postgresql as backend
2009-01-08 13:46 <cedk> oversize: do you know which kind of connection roundup open to postgresql ?
2009-01-08 13:46 <oversize> yeah, well, i switched to postgres so i can have fulltext search including the issues title
2009-01-08 13:47 <oversize> what you mean with "which kind of connection" ?
2009-01-08 13:47 <oversize> how many ?
2009-01-08 13:47 <oversize> and, short answer, no :)
2009-01-08 13:50 <cedk> oversize: args they use psycopg1
2009-01-08 13:50 <oversize> well i use pscyopg2, i think
2009-01-08 13:51 <oversize> py25-psycopg2-2.0.8 The high performance Python adapter for PostgreSQ
2009-01-08 13:51 <oversize> well, thanks, will try on roundup list :D
2009-01-08 13:51 <cedk> oversize: yes but they use the old backport
2009-01-08 13:51 <oversize> this has about zero activity thoug, which i thought i just ask here :)
2009-01-08 13:52 <cedk> oversize: how do you connect to roundup ? roundup standalone, cgi ?
2009-01-08 13:52 <oversize> what you mean? i thought when i install psycopg on my path, roudup would use that
2009-01-08 13:52 <oversize> standalone
2009-01-08 13:53 <cedk> oversize: /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/roundup/backends/ line 18
2009-01-08 13:53 <cedk> oversize: ok, it will not be a concurent thread access
2009-01-08 13:54 <cedk> oversize: we use sqlite, and there is no issue for that
2009-01-08 13:55 <oversize> if i understand it right, its just the timestamp of the session age that gets modified, which i hope wont cause so much trouble for me.
2009-01-08 13:56 <oversize> so roundup uses psycopg2 but handles it as psycopg1 ?
2009-01-08 13:57 <cedk> oversize: yes
2009-01-08 13:58 <cedk> oversize: I don't think it is just the session, I think it can be any timestamp of any records
2009-01-08 13:59 <cedk> oversize: maybe ask on roundup mailling list
2009-01-08 14:00 <oversize> yes i will, asked here cause i thought i get a faster answer :D
2009-01-08 14:00 <oversize> anyway thank you 8)
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2009-01-08 14:42 <CIA-8> tryton: Timitos roundup * #736/AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'id': [new] Traceback (most recent call last): File "/trytond/", line 282, in run res = method(*msg[2:]) File "/trytond/web_service/obj ...
2009-01-08 14:43 <CIA-8> tryton: Timitos roundup * #736/AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'id': [chatting] I tried to assign a packing with a consumable product
2009-01-08 14:45 <CIA-8> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 416:3e4b79e8cd5e stock/ Fix typo in pick_product consumable for issue736
2009-01-08 14:45 <CIA-8> tryton: ced roundup * #736/AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'id': [resolved] Fix with changeset 3e4b79e8cd5e
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2009-01-08 14:47 <CIA-8> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 417:441ec572fe30 stock/COPYRIGHT: Update copyright
2009-01-08 14:49 <cedk> enlightx: hi
2009-01-08 14:49 <cedk> enlightx: I see your post in the openerp forum about psycopg
2009-01-08 14:50 <enlightx> cedk: hi
2009-01-08 14:50 <cedk> enlightx: I guess we don't have this issue with Tryton ?
2009-01-08 14:51 <enlightx> cedk: it depends on the cursor type you have used
2009-01-08 14:51 <enlightx> cedk: just a sec, i'm going to see
2009-01-08 14:52 <enlightx> cedk: yes, tryton is using the right approach :)
2009-01-08 14:53 <enlightx> i really don't understand openerp people...
2009-01-08 14:54 <cedk> enlightx: I was not aware of this compatibility issue
2009-01-08 14:55 <cedk> enlightx: I see that they make many commit to change in the code the encoding
2009-01-08 14:56 <enlightx> cedk: yes, but this will be a mess in a not so far future
2009-01-08 14:57 <enlightx> even if you use a utf8 postgres instance you have to manually encode a lot of strings
2009-01-08 14:57 <cedk> enlightx: and by the way, I find it was very strange for the stability to switch from psycopg1 to psycopg between rc1 and rc2
2009-01-08 14:58 -!- johbo( has joined #tryton
2009-01-08 14:59 <enlightx> we will see what is going to happen for the rc3443 :)
2009-01-08 15:00 <cedk> enlightx: :-)
2009-01-08 15:00 <cedk> enlightx: in 2034 :-)
2009-01-08 15:00 <enlightx> however, i think they still use the old cursor type just to avoid possible compatibility issues with old tinyerp 4.x instances
2009-01-08 15:01 <enlightx> but i don't think this is a real problem
2009-01-08 15:02 <cedk> enlightx: by the way, it is not the only project to do like that, I see today that roundup also use it
2009-01-08 15:02 <enlightx> oh yes, i have the same problem with django
2009-01-08 15:04 <cedk> enlightx: strange, because psycopg2 is prety old now
2009-01-08 15:05 <cedk> enlightx: it was release in 2006
2009-01-08 15:05 <enlightx> but the code of openerp is older
2009-01-08 15:06 <cedk> enlightx: by the way bepivin was looking for italian people, you are italian, no ?
2009-01-08 15:06 <enlightx> yes i am
2009-01-08 15:29 <carlos> does anyone know an admin?
2009-01-08 15:29 <carlos> seems like their DNS server is down so the service is not available
2009-01-08 15:30 <bepivin> ciao enlightx
2009-01-08 15:31 <cedk> carlos: try the chan #intuxication
2009-01-08 15:31 <enlightx> bepivin: ciao
2009-01-08 15:31 <carlos> cedk: thanks
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2009-01-08 16:58 <carlos> cedk: hi
2009-01-08 16:59 <cedk> carlos: hi
2009-01-08 16:59 <carlos> cedk: I forgot to tell you that I got the domain a while ago, until we start running a Spanish community on that domain, I'm thinking on redirect it to
2009-01-08 17:00 <cristi_an> cedk: i plan to do the same for ro when i will have the ro trnsalation
2009-01-08 17:00 <cedk> carlos: ok, no problems
2009-01-08 17:01 <carlos> cedk: and btw, I guess my thread about es_ES, fr_FR, etc.. vs. es, fr didn't success, right? ;-)
2009-01-08 17:01 <cedk> carlos: I had thinking about it, but for now it is not urgent
2009-01-08 17:02 <cedk> carlos: but it is not a real issue for the website, but it could be good for Tryton him-self
2009-01-08 17:02 <cedk> carlos: because we had fr_FR and perhaps fr_BE
2009-01-08 17:03 <cedk> carlos: so you idea is good, as I didn't know this specific behavior of gettext
2009-01-08 17:05 <carlos> ok, I agree it's not urgent, just wanted to know whether is something we may want to do in Tryton at some point
2009-01-08 17:05 <carlos> about the website, is prettier than :-P
2009-01-08 17:06 <carlos> nothing else ;-)
2009-01-08 17:07 <carlos> ACTION moves back to his char of accounts' cave
2009-01-08 17:07 <carlos> s/char/chart/
2009-01-08 17:08 <cedk> carlos: ok it is in the pipeline :-)
2009-01-08 17:10 <udono> carlos: Hi
2009-01-08 17:11 <udono> carlos but you have other spain languages like catalan and basque? so the es_ES is not the most bad?
2009-01-08 17:12 <carlos> udono: well, you are moving to the political field, and that's dangerous...
2009-01-08 17:12 <carlos> udono: also, 'es' is for Spanish, the language, not the country
2009-01-08 17:12 <cedk> udono: es_ES is linked with es_CO, es_AR, etc.
2009-01-08 17:12 <udono> carlos: as I hit the enter key, I thought of it.
2009-01-08 17:13 <cedk> and it is right that globaly they will have all the same translation except for some
2009-01-08 17:14 <cedk> so it will be bettre to have only on records for es and some for es_ES, es_CO, etc.
2009-01-08 17:14 <udono> cedk: yes, this is a good solution
2009-01-08 17:33 <cristi_an> in terms of license if a firm want a custom module
2009-01-08 17:33 <cristi_an> does that custom module has to be public ? may that firm be charged for that module and to keep that for private use ?
2009-01-08 17:35 <udono> cristi_an: no need to public the module, but everyone who has the module can public it as he like. charging for keeping private is not legal use of gpl.
2009-01-08 17:35 <udono> cristi_an: afaik
2009-01-08 17:37 <cristi_an> let me put the problem differently ,then charging for installing the module ? :)
2009-01-08 17:37 <cristi_an> for example i develop oa very custom module for a firm
2009-01-08 17:38 <cristi_an> udono: i have to be able to live out of i may ask money for my services right ?
2009-01-08 17:38 <cristi_an> and that module may or maybe made public
2009-01-08 17:38 <cristi_an> is this legal ?
2009-01-08 17:39 <udono> cristi_an: If they like, they can put it in the internet, even, when they didn't paied for it afaik.
2009-01-08 17:39 <udono> cristi_an: afaik, you can charge the developin, installation, courses, written handbooks
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2009-01-08 17:41 <cristi_an> ok but if i deliver an exe
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2009-01-08 17:42 <cristi_an> udono: maybe the sources obfuscate( if such things exists)
2009-01-08 17:42 <cristi_an> in python ?
2009-01-08 17:42 <udono> cristi_an: no way, ilegal afaik.
2009-01-08 17:43 <Timitos> tekknokrat: hi. nice to see you again
2009-01-08 17:44 <tekknokrat> hi timitos, nice to see you too
2009-01-08 17:45 <yangoon> cristi_an: as long as you use substantial data form tryton, your derived work has to be GPL
2009-01-08 17:45 <udono> cristi_an: when you want to "sell" gpl-3 you must guarantee the avail. of the source. Since modules are using the Tryton framework, they must be gpl-3 too. Afaik if you only connect via xmlrpc then you can sell a propritary product, but I don't know exactly.
2009-01-08 17:46 <bechamel`> cristi_an: if you create a gpl module you are due to provide sources, but nothing prevent you for creating proprietary modules as long as you don't bundle them with tryton itself
2009-01-08 17:46 <udono> hi tekknokrat
2009-01-08 17:46 <bechamel`> cristi_an: you must distribute it separatly
2009-01-08 17:46 <tekknokrat> hi udono
2009-01-08 17:47 <bechamel`> there are proprietary module for joomla and firefox for example
2009-01-08 17:47 <cristi_an> bechamel`: that is a good sample
2009-01-08 17:47 <yangoon> bechamel`: but someone using those modules is entitled to have the sources
2009-01-08 17:47 <yangoon> bechamel`: and to publish them, if he likes
2009-01-08 17:47 <bechamel`> but if you do so you will loose a lot of advantage of open source
2009-01-08 17:48 <cristi_an> i am tallking about an hypotetical problem: a custom odule is developed and istalled on a firm
2009-01-08 17:49 <cristi_an> then if the module is made public...may be used by 100 other firms
2009-01-08 17:49 <cristi_an> that have that profile as original firm
2009-01-08 17:49 <bechamel`> yangoon: no, you can see the module as a modelisation of certain needs, and this module respect some api, but one can imagine a foo-erp that is completely closed source but that provide the api of tryton
2009-01-08 17:49 <Timitos> bechamel`: but this is a gpl problem. anybody who has the source can publish it and you need to provide the source if you give the solution to someone other
2009-01-08 17:50 <bechamel`> Timitos: i talk about proprietary module not gpl module
2009-01-08 17:50 <cristi_an> bechamel`: i talk about a private module as well
2009-01-08 17:50 <cristi_an> is possible to have such thing upon a open source ?
2009-01-08 17:51 <cristi_an> framework ?
2009-01-08 17:51 <Timitos> bechamel`: so you mean if it only works through xml-rpc with tryton as cedk mentioned? i also don´t know if this layer is basic enough
2009-01-08 17:51 <bechamel`> cristi_an: but if it's the firm that want to keep the code private, its ok to provide gpl module. gpl is there to gives power to the customer, not the software companies
2009-01-08 17:53 <bechamel`> cristi_an: yes i think it's possible, but i do not encourage you to do so :)
2009-01-08 17:53 <yangoon> bechamel`: like Timitos says: AFAIK as soon as you use some code from tryton, you have to use GPL
2009-01-08 17:54 <bechamel`> Timitos: i talk about a normal module, not via rpc
2009-01-08 17:54 <bechamel`> yangoon: yes if you use code, but not if your module follow the api
2009-01-08 17:54 <cristi_an> bechamel`: what do you mean normal module ?
2009-01-08 17:54 <yangoon> bechamel`: it is not my understanding of GPL
2009-01-08 17:54 <bechamel`> cristi_an: like every modules that have been made
2009-01-08 17:54 <Timitos> bechamel`: you cannot have proprietary module if you connect it with tryton. this is not gpl compliant
2009-01-08 17:55 <udono>
2009-01-08 17:55 <cristi_an> Timitos: i guess you are right
2009-01-08 17:55 <udono> Timitos: so you are right.
2009-01-08 17:55 <bechamel`> udono: it's the faq not the licence
2009-01-08 17:55 <udono> bechamel`: :-)
2009-01-08 17:55 <bechamel`> udono: the gpl does tell oo inheritance is derivative work
2009-01-08 17:56 <Timitos> bechamel`: i do not understand?
2009-01-08 17:57 <bechamel`> udono: for example i know some java frameworks that have been implemented by several poeple, some implementations are opensource, other are not
2009-01-08 17:57 <yangoon> bechamel`: I think as soon as you use in a module, you have used code from the project
2009-01-08 17:58 <bechamel`> yangoon: i'm not sure
2009-01-08 17:59 <bechamel`> yangoon: once again look at joomla and firefox
2009-01-08 17:59 <Timitos> bechamel`: firefox does not have gpl license!!
2009-01-08 18:00 <udono> bechamel`: maybe the API is not GPL?
2009-01-08 18:00 <bechamel`> an api cannot be licenced, it's the implentation that is
2009-01-08 18:01 <bechamel`> anyway, creating proprietary module is not a good idea, it easy to look the gui to understand how it works, it's the business stuff that are difficult to understand right, the implementation is easy
2009-01-08 18:03 <udono> bechamel`: absolutely. I see no more sense in hiding software then bad code quality...
2009-01-08 18:04 <bechamel`> udono: :)
2009-01-08 18:05 <udono> and it seems that the XMLRPC is sorted out in gpl V3, too.
2009-01-08 18:06 <yangoon> bechamel`: from joomla license faq: It is our opinion that most extensions are derivative works of Joomla! and must be licensed under the GNU GPL.
2009-01-08 18:06 <bechamel`> but once again if the customer wants to keep the module for him it's ok with the gpl (because the gpl give rights to the customer to get the source but doesn't force him to distributes them)
2009-01-08 18:06 <yangoon> bechamel`: If you believe your extension is not a derivative work we strongly recommend that you seek professional legal advice.
2009-01-08 18:07 <yangoon> bechamel`: the customer can do what he wants, but not the dev selling the module
2009-01-08 18:10 <Timitos> bechamel`: yes. but there are always two parties (the dev and the customer). both can decide to distribute the solution. the other party cannot restrict this right.
2009-01-08 18:10 <bechamel`> yangoon: I don't want to create proprietary modules, and I beleive that there is a risk for the one who will do. lawsuit are sometimes a lottery
2009-01-08 18:11 <udono> yangoon: bechamel`is right imho that the customer can hide his module he has the right to contribute, but not the duty
2009-01-08 18:12 <yangoon> udono: as long as you don't publish or sell you have of course every right to hide
2009-01-08 18:16 <bechamel`> Timitos: if a customer give a developper big money to not distribute a module he created, it doesn't break the gpl imho. But if they want to distribute it the gpl force them to release also the code
2009-01-08 18:17 <bechamel`> the same way most of the openerp parnters doesn't publish their modules
2009-01-08 18:17 <Timitos> bechamel`: yes. money could help ;-) but you cannot restrict the right of the developer to distribute the solution if he developed it under gpl.
2009-01-08 18:18 <Timitos> bechamel`: there is no legal way to restrict this right. you can only try to convince the other party (perhaps with money)
2009-01-08 18:19 <udono> yangoon: for the dev its much more advantageous to contribute the module to the community: Free Bug tracking, free help, finding more new customers for finance the next version... that's the business I see. Not selling the same piece of software again and again. But if the customer still don't want to contribute his paid software development, I would charge him for the loss of community dynamic. The dev need to do everything by himsel
2009-01-08 18:20 <bechamel`> Timitos: i don't think so, for example our dev contract state clearly who will be the copyright owner of the future code (b2ck only actualy, but one can imagine the other way around)
2009-01-08 18:21 <Timitos> bechamel`: yes. this could be perhaps a solution you are right. but i am not sure
2009-01-08 18:22 <yangoon> udono: ack
2009-01-08 18:22 <bechamel`> and of course IANAL :)
2009-01-08 18:22 <udono> bechamel`: pfui
2009-01-08 18:22 <udono> :-)
2009-01-08 18:23 <yangoon> udono: we started from the point, if cristi_an is entitled to not publish or obfuscate sources to customers. and there I would state a clear NO.
2009-01-08 18:23 <udono> yangoon: you are right, imho
2009-01-08 18:25 <Timitos> this was a great discussion guys. i think there are many things clear now.
2009-01-08 18:25 <udono> ACTION thinks another time we complete our monthly legal discussion. Next one will be in February :-)
2009-01-08 18:26 <yangoon> bechamel`: I even can't imagine the other way round. even if you sell your copyright, you still have the sources of some GPL code. and you have the freedom to publish it. if you will do it is another thing.
2009-01-08 18:26 <bechamel`> yangoon: not if the module is created from scratch
2009-01-08 18:27 <yangoon> bechamel`: IANAL too, but you know my opinion about
2009-01-08 18:27 <bechamel`> yangoon: and also as i said i'm not sure that a tryton module is a derivative work, as i explained with the java framework
2009-01-08 18:28 <udono> yangoon: If he is contracted by the customer, than the contract counts equally. The decision may be easier when you sign: "The dev pay 50.000 EUR to the client when making the source open to the community"...
2009-01-08 18:28 <yangoon> bechamel`: do you have a link for the java thing?
2009-01-08 18:29 <cristi_an> btw tryton code is a fork of open erp's
2009-01-08 18:29 <cristi_an> ?
2009-01-08 18:29 <cristi_an> that was possible because open erp has gpl license
2009-01-08 18:29 <udono> yangoon: bechamel`
2009-01-08 18:29 <yangoon> cristi_an: exactly
2009-01-08 18:30 <cristi_an> i just asked because i want to know hwat kind of bussines models can be built aroung tryton
2009-01-08 18:30 <bechamel`> yangoon: no i don't even remenber the name
2009-01-08 18:31 <udono> cristi_an: ... and they changed the license of openERP to GPL3, too. For better 'collaboration' with Tryton...
2009-01-08 18:31 <cristi_an> if a do a custom module for ro and i made it pullic..then i do a good thing for comunity but i will do not have anything to eat :)
2009-01-08 18:31 <cristi_an> sorry for asking since i do not have time to check what is the big dif between gpl and gpl3 ?
2009-01-08 18:32 <bechamel`> cristi_an: your customer will pay you for new module, it's your value added
2009-01-08 18:32 <cristi_an> bechamel`: but the other companies will get it for free
2009-01-08 18:32 <yangoon> cristi_an: and other customization work to do
2009-01-08 18:32 <yangoon> cristi_an: all kind of support
2009-01-08 18:32 <bechamel`> cristi_an:
2009-01-08 18:33 <bechamel`> cristi_an: a company with an erp but without any support for it is not very serious
2009-01-08 18:34 <udono> bechamel`: or its called SAP...
2009-01-08 18:34 <bechamel`> cristi_an: yes other will do, but if another company want some improvement they will pay you, and they will be ok to pay you because those imporvement will appear on top of something that they have got for free
2009-01-08 18:35 <cristi_an> i got it
2009-01-08 18:35 <cedk> cristi_an: most of the time companies haven't IT staffs, so they need you to setup Tryton, make backups, etc...
2009-01-08 18:36 <bechamel`> cristi_an: in the open source business customer pay for a real service not for some proprietary chain
2009-01-08 18:36 <cedk> cristi_an: and they will need update and fix
2009-01-08 18:36 <cristi_an> for sure !
2009-01-08 18:36 <cedk> cristi_an: of course to start your business you need to invist some of your time
2009-01-08 18:36 <cristi_an> i have some customers...and they pay a monthly fee for my services
2009-01-08 18:37 <cedk> cristi_an: if it is too much for you, try to find other people that want also make an ro account module
2009-01-08 18:37 <cristi_an> for new legal updates ,for backup,for some custom stuff
2009-01-08 18:37 <cristi_an> i guess i will keep this model with tryton as well
2009-01-08 18:37 <cedk> cristi_an: so they paid for your services
2009-01-08 18:37 <cristi_an> hopefully
2009-01-08 18:37 <cristi_an> services..right...but initally they paied the program too many years ago
2009-01-08 18:38 <cristi_an> now they will pay instaltion :)
2009-01-08 18:38 <cristi_an> and get the sourcer for free
2009-01-08 18:38 <bechamel`> cristi_an: nothing is free :)
2009-01-08 18:38 <cristi_an> + subscription for my services
2009-01-08 18:38 <cedk> cristi_an: most of the time, if you do your jobs right, company will not switch or try to make the job out of you
2009-01-08 18:39 <cristi_an> cedk: they do not have a chioce unfortunately for them....
2009-01-08 18:39 <carlos> Hmm, I'm having some problems with the chart of accounts terminology in English, In tryton there are 'payable', 'revenue', 'receivable', 'expense' and 'other' (I think 'view' is just to represent an account parent). However, from I see 'Asset', 'Liability', 'Equity', 'Revenue', 'Expense' and 'Contra-accounts'. The Spanish chart of accounts uses 'Asset' and 'Liability' but I don't know how to map that into tryton
2009-01-08 18:39 <cedk> cristi_an: but opensource is a matter of choice
2009-01-08 18:39 <cristi_an> having a it stuff is mucm much more expensive then a subciption to a contractor
2009-01-08 18:40 <Timitos> carlso: those terms of tryton are only for internal use
2009-01-08 18:40 <Timitos> carlos: Asset Liablity Equity: these are account types
2009-01-08 18:40 <cedk> carlos: this is type not kind
2009-01-08 18:40 <carlos> Ok, I thought kind == type
2009-01-08 18:41 <cedk> carlos: it is two different things, kind for internal use, type for balance sheet
2009-01-08 18:41 <cedk> cristi_an: don't understand?
2009-01-08 18:42 <carlos> cedk, Timitos: Which 'kind' should I select for each account?
2009-01-08 18:42 <Timitos> carlos: need to leave. sorry
2009-01-08 18:43 <cedk> carlos: it depends of the use
2009-01-08 18:43 <cristi_an> i say it is better for a company to have a subscription with a contractor for a ERP rather then having a full time it stuff as employee
2009-01-08 18:43 <cedk> carlos: view: prevent of having move on it
2009-01-08 18:43 <cristi_an> and to pay the contractor for his services
2009-01-08 18:43 <carlos> Timitos: np, thanks
2009-01-08 18:43 <carlos> cedk: yeah, view is the only one I'm sure when should be used ;-)
2009-01-08 18:44 <cedk> cristi_an: yes, that is the key point :-)
2009-01-08 18:45 <cedk> carlos: expense and revenue are used to filter account on product form
2009-01-08 18:45 <carlos> cedk: I think that expense and revenue is more or less clear too (phone bill, electricity are expenses and revenue what you get from your customers / selling goods)
2009-01-08 18:46 <carlos> cedk: what you sell and what you buy, right?
2009-01-08 18:46 <cedk> carlos: payable and receivable are used to compute the respective amount on party
2009-01-08 18:46 <cedk> carlos: yes
2009-01-08 18:46 <cedk> carlos: kind is just a way to prevent to select wrong account in some place
2009-01-08 18:47 <carlos> cedk: so with payable and receivable, you detect the accounts that you can use to calculate what owns you a party or what owns you to a party, right?
2009-01-08 18:47 <cedk> carlos: yes
2009-01-08 18:47 <carlos> ok, I got it
2009-01-08 18:47 <carlos> cedk: thanks
2009-01-08 18:48 <carlos> so I need to create the account types in my chart of accounts with account.account.type.template ?
2009-01-08 18:48 <bechamel`> yangoon: the java framwork i talked about is, which was a proprietary implementation of a protocol. It have been open sourced and i can tell you that proprietary componant exist for it. but knopflerfish is not gpl, it's a bsd licence. But a i said nothing prevent somebody to create a proprietary framework that will mimik the tryton api.
2009-01-08 18:52 <udono> bechamel`: so its BSD and free for propritary use:
2009-01-08 18:53 <bechamel`> udono: yes, i thought it was gpl
2009-01-08 18:57 <cedk> carlos: yes
2009-01-08 18:58 <udono> bechamel`: but you are right. In german we say something like If there's no claimant, there's no judge. cristi_an ('Wo kein Kläger da kein Richter') :-)
2009-01-08 18:59 <cedk> for the proprietary module, one thing that can not be done is to distribute it with Tryton. It must be separated packages
2009-01-08 19:00 <cedk> what bechamel` try to say, it that you can write your own software (any license) that will be able to run Tryton modules
2009-01-08 19:00 <carlos> cedk: ok, thanks for your input, let's see what I get with all this information ;-)
2009-01-08 19:00 <cedk> because there is no patent on the API
2009-01-08 19:00 <cedk> carlos: you're welcome
2009-01-08 19:02 <cristi_an> :)
2009-01-08 19:02 <carlos> god, API patents...
2009-01-08 19:06 <cristi_an> "The Stunnel source code is available under the GNU General Public License, meaning it is free to use in both commercial and non commercial applications as you see fit, as long as you provide source code (and any modifications) with the software"
2009-01-08 19:06 <cedk> cristi_an: yes, you can sale Tryton if you want
2009-01-08 19:06 <udono> cristi_an: exactly it is with Tryton...
2009-01-08 19:09 <cristi_an> i will sell only my services
2009-01-08 19:09 <cristi_an> that will be enough for me :)
2009-01-08 19:11 <cedk> cristi_an: it will be difficult to sale Tryton as any body can download it :-)
2009-01-08 19:13 <cristi_an> hehe :)
2009-01-08 19:13 <udono> cristi_an: ... and your customer will no longer trust you if he recognize :-=
2009-01-08 19:13 <cristi_an> i did no know that :)))
2009-01-08 19:13 <cristi_an> it is public ?
2009-01-08 19:13 <cristi_an> :)
2009-01-08 19:14 <cristi_an> maybe you did not know exactly the situation....i asked this because there is A LOT of work LOT for makeing it comatible with ro
2009-01-08 19:14 <cristi_an> if i made public my work....
2009-01-08 19:15 <cristi_an> then be sure...that i will be left without revenue...
2009-01-08 19:15 <udono> cristi_an: Its the same than for Germany, Belgium, spain, Romania
2009-01-08 19:15 <cristi_an> since RO is not belgium or france
2009-01-08 19:15 <cristi_an> udono: NO
2009-01-08 19:15 <cristi_an> ro and est european countries mentalities are very much different
2009-01-08 19:16 <cristi_an> but that is politics
2009-01-08 19:16 <udono> cristi_an: its your entry card for romania, because you are the author of the romanian implementation, nobody can steal it from you....
2009-01-08 19:16 <cristi_an> i hope that will be enough...
2009-01-08 19:17 <cristi_an> now these are only dreams
2009-01-08 19:17 <udono> cristi_an: and the knowledge you build is yours, too.
2009-01-08 19:17 <cristi_an> thee si a lot of work in that
2009-01-08 19:17 <udono> cristi_an: just start with the visuals: translation, chart of accounts
2009-01-08 19:17 <cristi_an> i started ...
2009-01-08 19:18 <cristi_an> in parralel with doin my own modules
2009-01-08 19:18 <cristi_an> demo ones
2009-01-08 19:18 <cristi_an> but only in spare time
2009-01-08 19:18 <carlos> cristi_an: look at it in this other form, your work is a not so much as the work for the whole product (Tryton) and your contribution is the way to 'pay' for the other parts of Tryton that you got for free. In addition, other people from Romania will be able to help you to improve your localization once it's released
2009-01-08 19:18 <cristi_an> :(
2009-01-08 19:18 <cristi_an> carlos: agree with you
2009-01-08 19:19 <carlos> there will be people that will not contribute with you, but there will be others that will do it and it will be cheaper for you to maintain it in that way than going you alone
2009-01-08 19:20 <carlos> hmm, many uses of 'it'... sorry ;-)
2009-01-08 19:20 <cristi_an> eh :)
2009-01-08 19:21 <carlos> cedk: how could I get write access to ?
2009-01-08 19:22 <cedk> carlos: just ask and provide google account :-)
2009-01-08 19:22 <carlos> cedk: I would like to document the chart of accounts creation process
2009-01-08 19:23 <carlos> cedk: please, could you give me access to it? :-P
2009-01-08 19:24 <cedk> carlos: ok, done
2009-01-08 19:25 <carlos> thanks
2009-01-08 19:25 <cedk> carlos: try to keep the same way of creating document
2009-01-08 19:25 <cedk> carlos: try to not duplicate informations
2009-01-08 19:27 <carlos> ok
2009-01-08 19:34 <udono> carlos: ... and don't to forget to enrich and clean up all the existing documents with your advice and our opinion :-)
2009-01-08 19:35 <carlos> sure, however, I'm not famous for my documentation skills... ;-)
2009-01-08 19:36 <carlos> but when there is nothing or my documentation... my documentation is good :-P
2009-01-08 19:48 -!- cristi_an(i=5978d3ce@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #tryton
2009-01-08 19:48 <cristi_an> "Stateless design. Rails wins here because it's also fully HTTP REST compliant while OpenERP doesn't benefit yet the idempotence of most of HTTP methods and use HTTP POST instead to tunnel its XML/RPC, while also supporting the fast NetRPC protocol (similar to Java RMI) or HTTP via eTiny, more specifically a thin Turbogears/CherryPy layer), but that's not as RESTful as Rails yet. "
2009-01-08 19:49 <cristi_an> if instead of rails we put tryton this sentece is still valid ?
2009-01-08 19:51 <cedk> cristi_an: I don't understand every sentence, but Tryton is no HTTP REST compliant
2009-01-08 19:52 <cristi_an> cedk: thx for pointing this
2009-01-08 19:53 <bechamel`> ACTION don't think etiny is a thin layer
2009-01-08 19:53 -!- enlightx( has joined #tryton
2009-01-08 19:55 <cedk> enlightx: did you see the OpenERP answer?
2009-01-08 19:56 <enlightx> cedk: yes, right now
2009-01-08 19:57 <enlightx> but if that is true, what is causing those problems?
2009-01-08 19:57 <enlightx> every export ends in a 'ascii can't decode'
2009-01-08 19:58 <enlightx> i think i'm going to work harder on tryton :)
2009-01-08 19:58 <cedk> enlightx: any way, in the code of psycopg2, it is said that using psycopg1: It should be considered a temporary hack to run old code while porting to psycopg 2
2009-01-08 19:58 <cedk> enlightx: I think the issue comes from the switch to psycopg2
2009-01-08 19:59 <cedk> enlightx: in psycopg2 strings are unicode by default, and in psycopg it was str
2009-01-08 19:59 <enlightx> both of them (cursor styles) works the same
2009-01-08 19:59 <enlightx> the big difference is that the psycopg1 version doesn't keep the correct encoding
2009-01-08 19:59 <enlightx> but i didn't investigated
2009-01-08 20:00 <enlightx> forcing openerp to use psycopg2 the problem disappear
2009-01-08 20:01 <cedk> enlightx: but doesn't seem that they will change it :-)
2009-01-08 20:02 <enlightx> eheh, yeah i think so :)
2009-01-08 20:04 <enlightx> cedk: does tryton provide accounting charts?
2009-01-08 20:05 <cedk> enlightx: for now, only a minimal
2009-01-08 20:06 <enlightx> is it hard to port an existing one from openerp?
2009-01-08 20:06 <cedk> enlightx: I don't think so, but there is some new functionnality in Tryton
2009-01-08 20:07 <cedk> enlightx: so you must know how accounting works
2009-01-08 20:07 <cedk> enlightx: at least a little
2009-01-08 20:08 <CIA-8> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 1452:f436d1853d06 trytond/ Fix guidelines
2009-01-08 20:08 <CIA-8> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 1453:41a21b9030b6 trytond/TODO: Add todo for context in xxx2xxx operation
2009-01-08 20:08 <CIA-8> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 1454:3cee85555b87 trytond/: merge
2009-01-08 20:09 <CIA-8> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 418:2a36e0c10075 stock/ Add ondelete CASCADE on inventory lines
2009-01-08 20:09 <CIA-8> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 419:495eaa0b4870 stock/ Order inventory lines by product name
2009-01-08 20:09 <CIA-8> tryton: C?dric Krier <> default * 420:007d06b0bb81 stock/ ( inventory.xml): Allow to filter on category and product to complete inventory
2009-01-08 20:12 <enlightx> cedk: that's not a problem in my case, i have people with good knowledge
2009-01-08 20:19 -!- LucaSub( has joined #tryton
2009-01-08 20:19 -!- paola( has joined #tryton
2009-01-08 20:21 <LucaSub> hallo.
2009-01-08 20:22 <enlightx> LucaSub: hi
2009-01-08 20:23 <LucaSub> hi
2009-01-08 20:23 <enlightx> cedk: is someone of you already working on something similar to the openoffice extension they made for openerp?
2009-01-08 20:25 <enlightx> even if it is not so useful :)
2009-01-08 20:27 <bechamel`> enlightx: in tryton, report templates are odt documents, so one can edit them easily, but maybe the extension provide other features
2009-01-08 20:28 <enlightx> bechamel`: i mean an extension which fetch from tryton the fields available
2009-01-08 20:29 <cristi_an> bechamel`: i saw in open erp a feature (not needed as feature) ..there is a demo in which they import some uml diagram and ==> a module (crud operations)
2009-01-08 20:29 <cristi_an> bechamel`: is that hard to have in trytons as well in the future
2009-01-08 20:29 <bechamel`> enlightx: no there is no such stuff
2009-01-08 20:29 <cristi_an> since is not practical right now but is nice to impress customers :)
2009-01-08 20:29 <enlightx> cristi_an: it's a DIA extension
2009-01-08 20:30 <cristi_an> i geuss that is !!!
2009-01-08 20:30 <bechamel`> cristi_an: for which purpose ? what's happend if you add something in the source ? you cannot use the generator anymore
2009-01-08 20:30 <enlightx> i tryed it, and it works well
2009-01-08 20:30 <cristi_an> bechamel`: what you can;t ?
2009-01-08 20:30 <cristi_an> do anymore ?
2009-01-08 20:31 <enlightx> bechamel`: it is useful just to build the initial frame of your code
2009-01-08 20:31 <cristi_an> bechamel`: "you cannot use the generator anymore"
2009-01-08 20:31 <cristi_an> ?
2009-01-08 20:32 <bechamel`> cristi_an: it will write over your modifications
2009-01-08 20:34 <bechamel`> cristi_an: a real solution should be able to work the both way: if you add a class in the code the dia is updated accordingly, but for the moment it's a dump convertion from xml tag to python class
2009-01-08 20:34 <enlightx> we (plone developers) have a similar plugin wich convert uml diagrams built with argouml and convert them to plone plugins
2009-01-08 20:34 <enlightx> but keeping your changes
2009-01-08 20:34 <bechamel`> enlightx: and it's really usefull ?
2009-01-08 20:35 <cristi_an> plone developers ?
2009-01-08 20:35 <cristi_an> i google it right now :)
2009-01-08 20:35 <enlightx> bechamel`: yes, we use it a lot, but just to build concepts of course
2009-01-08 20:35 <enlightx> cristi_an:
2009-01-08 20:36 <cristi_an> i am there
2009-01-08 20:36 <cristi_an> so you build cms ?
2009-01-08 20:37 <enlightx> cristi_an: plone is more than a cms, is a framework you use to build your own cms (or portal, or intranet or whatever you like :-)
2009-01-08 20:37 <cristi_an> plone is like drupal for phpp ?
2009-01-08 20:37 <cristi_an> but in python i guess
2009-01-08 20:37 <enlightx> yes it is written in python :)
2009-01-08 20:37 <cristi_an> or joomla like ?
2009-01-08 20:38 <enlightx> they aren't frameworks
2009-01-08 20:38 <enlightx> they are pure cmses
2009-01-08 20:38 <cristi_an> heheheh
2009-01-08 20:38 <cristi_an> "A light-hearted confession from an ex-Java junkie about why he switched to Python and Plone after several years of mainlining java beans"
2009-01-08 20:38 <enlightx> plone is similar to oracle portal for example
2009-01-08 20:38 <cristi_an> i see
2009-01-08 20:40 <cristi_an> i am java junkiee but not that happy as the above confesioner :)
2009-01-08 20:41 <cristi_an> i wish io would like to rent "cedk or bechamell for 1 week " (jokeing) to spend time and try to understand more and more from tryton
2009-01-08 20:42 <enlightx> :)
2009-01-08 20:43 <cristi_an> btw cedk ,bechamel` you work in the same office ? or from home ?
2009-01-08 20:43 <cristi_an> or the german ones ?
2009-01-08 20:43 <bechamel`> cristi_an: home
2009-01-08 20:44 <bechamel`> cristi_an: if you want one can organise some trainings
2009-01-08 20:44 <cristi_an> well i would love it !!!!!!!
2009-01-08 20:44 <cristi_an> me too...that sucks :)....bed ,kitchen,computer neverending lifecycle
2009-01-08 20:44 <bechamel`> cristi_an: ... but they are not free :)
2009-01-08 20:45 <cristi_an> ok i can pay you in nature :)
2009-01-08 20:45 <bechamel`> cristi_an: hum, thank you, money is ok :)
2009-01-08 20:45 <cristi_an> i can give you potatos,drinks (home made)
2009-01-08 20:45 <cristi_an> :)
2009-01-08 20:46 <cristi_an> really,maybe some trainings are welcomed :)
2009-01-08 20:47 <cristi_an> but first time for free ,second time for money ....
2009-01-08 20:47 <enlightx> ACTION thinks that tryton channel is funnier than openerp one
2009-01-08 20:47 <bechamel`> cristi_an: the first free time is the chan actualy
2009-01-08 20:48 <cristi_an> what can i say you are right ...
2009-01-08 20:48 <cristi_an> but a meeting this year will not hurt
2009-01-08 20:49 <bechamel`> cristi_an: btw neverending lifecycle is better than neverending traffic jam
2009-01-08 20:49 <cristi_an> do you have kids ?
2009-01-08 20:50 <bechamel`> cristi_an: i don't know when i will find time for that but i would like to add some tuto or intorductional documentation, it's really missing
2009-01-08 20:50 <bechamel`> cristi_an: no kids, just two cats :)
2009-01-08 20:51 <cristi_an> then i understand you....when you have the kids you'll understnad me and say traffic jam rules
2009-01-08 20:51 <bechamel`> lol
2009-01-08 20:52 <cristi_an> well i can do that docs...of course english will be revisited
2009-01-08 20:53 <cristi_an> bechamel`: you know some java right ?
2009-01-08 20:53 <cristi_an> for me the hardest thing is to make analogies between what is in tryton with some java
2009-01-08 20:53 <bechamel`> cristi_an: yes as student
2009-01-08 20:54 <cristi_an> for example there is NONE (except a stupid comercial thing ) in java that is similar to tryton client
2009-01-08 20:54 <bechamel`> cristi_an: i see python like java but without constrains
2009-01-08 20:55 <cristi_an> i mean the client is with desktop widgets but is a thin client it has not logic in it
2009-01-08 20:55 <enlightx> cristi_an: this is because java is not the right choice to develop such softwares :)
2009-01-08 20:55 <cristi_an> enlightx: plz elaborate.
2009-01-08 20:55 <cristi_an> anything that is in puthon you find in java
2009-01-08 20:55 <enlightx> cristi_an: no, not the right language to develop client software
2009-01-08 20:56 <carlos> cristi_an: AFAIK, OpenBravo's web client is supposed to be something like tryton's client
2009-01-08 20:56 <enlightx> even if depends on the gui libs you use
2009-01-08 20:56 <enlightx> carlos: but it's a web software
2009-01-08 20:56 <cristi_an> carlos: excuse me (that is bull sh..)
2009-01-08 20:56 <cristi_an> openbravo
2009-01-08 20:57 <cristi_an> slow as hell
2009-01-08 20:57 <carlos> cristi_an: I said it's something like, not that is the same ;-)
2009-01-08 20:57 <cristi_an> configuration mess
2009-01-08 20:57 -!- mrcast( has joined #tryton
2009-01-08 20:57 <cristi_an>
2009-01-08 20:57 <carlos> enlightx: I know, but it's a client for a remote server
2009-01-08 20:57 <enlightx> cristi_an: perhaps compiere has a client gui written in java
2009-01-08 20:57 <cristi_an> i stuidied compier,adempiere
2009-01-08 20:57 <carlos> enlightx: I think it used to have one
2009-01-08 20:57 <cristi_an> in adempier i entered in the code
2009-01-08 20:58 <cristi_an> it is a nice piece of software for year 2000
2009-01-08 20:58 <cristi_an> in 2000 it was the crown...
2009-01-08 20:58 <cristi_an> nothing new was addded on top of Jorg;s code
2009-01-08 20:58 <cristi_an> except new modules
2009-01-08 20:58 <enlightx> however, the base framework is more important than the language itself
2009-01-08 20:59 <cristi_an> enlightx: i agreee with you...
2009-01-08 20:59 <cristi_an> but adempiere has a thick client
2009-01-08 20:59 <cristi_an> very heavy one
2009-01-08 20:59 <enlightx> i'v been a java developer for a lot of years but i never found a good object framework
2009-01-08 20:59 <cristi_an> i search weeks to find somethign similar in java
2009-01-08 21:00 <enlightx> cristi_an: you can use eclipse for instance
2009-01-08 21:00 <cristi_an> but i did not found somehting similar with tryton .open erp
2009-01-08 21:00 <cristi_an> enlightx: what do you mena by object framework
2009-01-08 21:00 <cristi_an> so my question is WHY ?
2009-01-08 21:01 <cristi_an> sou to language ?
2009-01-08 21:01 <cristi_an> due
2009-01-08 21:01 <cristi_an> i doubt that nobody think of that
2009-01-08 21:03 <cristi_an> you mean RCP ?
2009-01-08 21:03 <enlightx> cristi_an: if you have to develop something complex you can start from a blank page
2009-01-08 21:03 <enlightx> you need ready classes
2009-01-08 21:03 <enlightx> ready objects which describe users for example
2009-01-08 21:03 <cristi_an> can or can't
2009-01-08 21:03 <enlightx> can't sorry :)
2009-01-08 21:04 <cristi_an> yes there is hibernate ,jpa
2009-01-08 21:04 <cristi_an> you may create the orm stuff in days for complex applications
2009-01-08 21:05 <enlightx> cristi_an: i don't want to build an orm :) i just want to reuse an existing one :)
2009-01-08 21:05 <enlightx> openobject for example is a nice approach
2009-01-08 21:05 <enlightx> similar to the plone one
2009-01-08 21:06 <cristi_an> agree
2009-01-08 21:06 <cristi_an> tryton has a similar base
2009-01-08 21:06 <enlightx> yes
2009-01-08 21:07 <cristi_an> but there are orm in java
2009-01-08 21:07 <cristi_an> i just told you hibernate and jpa (eclipse link)
2009-01-08 21:07 <cristi_an> so you do not have to build them
2009-01-08 21:07 <enlightx> yes, but they aren't so flexible :)
2009-01-08 21:07 <cristi_an> just use it
2009-01-08 21:07 <cristi_an> enlightx: i got you now :) what do you mean by that....
2009-01-08 21:08 <cristi_an> tell me one thing that can be done in open object and can;t be done with a java orm
2009-01-08 21:09 <cristi_an> anyway tryon and open objects are differnt
2009-01-08 21:09 <cristi_an> then hibernate
2009-01-08 21:09 <enlightx> it's not a matter of what you can or can't. the difference is the time you need to implement those things :)
2009-01-08 21:09 <cristi_an> do you know something similar with open object and tryton in java ?
2009-01-08 21:11 <enlightx> cristi_an: ibm lotus domino has a similar philosophy
2009-01-08 21:11 <cristi_an> let me google it
2009-01-08 21:11 <enlightx> but it's more than a framework
2009-01-08 21:12 <cristi_an> it would be very very nice to have such a thing in java....BUT
2009-01-08 21:12 <cristi_an> enlightx: what can be the reason not having such a thing ?
2009-01-08 21:13 -!- carlos(n=carlos@ has joined #tryton
2009-01-08 21:14 <enlightx> develop something similar to tryton from scrach requires a lot of time, with every language
2009-01-08 21:17 <cristi_an> enlightx: but my question was why this was not developed long time ago in java
2009-01-08 21:17 <cristi_an> ?
2009-01-08 21:17 <cristi_an> maybe starting now from 0 can take some time
2009-01-08 21:17 <cristi_an> but i doubt it will not be a success
2009-01-08 21:17 <cristi_an> since there is not such thing !!!
2009-01-08 21:18 <cristi_an> not that i know of !!!!
2009-01-08 21:18 <enlightx> because they started a client side software and java is not the best choice in this case
2009-01-08 21:19 <enlightx> and also because python is the language of this century :)
2009-01-08 21:20 <cristi_an> btw lotus domino is a monster...may be good for nike or addidas but not for us :)
2009-01-08 21:20 <enlightx> cristi_an: and it's not an erp :)
2009-01-08 21:20 <enlightx> i've started a comparison between dev framework
2009-01-08 21:21 <cristi_an> sounds interesting
2009-01-08 21:21 <cristi_an> any results ?
2009-01-08 21:22 <enlightx> yes... it relays on your needs :) ihih
2009-01-08 21:23 <cristi_an> :)
2009-01-08 21:23 <cristi_an> so where that comparsion may be seen :)
2009-01-08 21:23 <cristi_an> ?
2009-01-08 21:24 <enlightx> btw, it's not possibile to compare them... every framework has its own pros and cons
2009-01-08 21:59 <carlos> ikks: hi
2009-01-08 22:00 <ikks> carlos, how is it going?
2009-01-08 22:00 <carlos> ikks: fine thanks, what about you?
2009-01-08 22:00 <ikks> everything flowing :)
2009-01-08 22:01 <carlos> ikks: I have some comments about the Spanish translation. Why did you use 'Manejo Financiero' and 'Gestión de compras' instead of using consistent translations like 'Gestión Financiera' and 'Gestión de compras' ?
2009-01-08 22:02 <carlos> ACTION is talking about 1.0 version
2009-01-08 22:02 <carlos> I'm not sure whether you already fixed it with 1.1
2009-01-08 22:04 <ikks> I haven't moved anything to 1.1 version.
2009-01-08 22:04 <ikks> But you are certainly right.
2009-01-08 22:05 <ikks> It should be 'Gestión'
2009-01-08 22:05 <ikks> A lot better
2009-01-08 22:05 <ikks> Your review is really important.
2009-01-08 22:05 <ikks> and makes sense.
2009-01-08 22:06 <carlos> ikks: ok, I'm just starting using the client so now, I'm going to be able to give you some input
2009-01-08 22:06 <ikks> ACTION have to rearrange all the environment to be able to get synced
2009-01-08 22:11 -!- juanfer(n=juanfer@ has joined #tryton
2009-01-08 22:16 <carlos> ikks: btw, I'm not sure whether account_es ( is a good name for the char of accounts in your country
2009-01-08 22:16 <carlos> ikks: as far as I know, even if it's using lower case (lots of confusion... :-( ), the chart of accounts are for countries not languages
2009-01-08 22:17 <carlos> cedk: couldn't we use capital letters instead of lower case ones to prevent confusions with language code vs country codes so we are consistent with other country codes usage?
2009-01-08 22:18 <ikks> that's true, maybe better to look at it on the mailing list?
2009-01-08 22:19 <carlos> hmm, anyway, what's account_es exactly? it doesn't look like a chart of accounts, but an account branch
2009-01-08 22:19 <carlos> ikks: yeah, good idea
2009-01-08 22:22 <carlos> mail sent
2009-01-08 22:51 <vengfulsquirrel> Can anyone think of any major blockers to having assignation process choose substitutes for a given product ?(with custom code) And also if there is anything that parallels that type of idea in an industry?
2009-01-08 23:18 -!- ikks(n=igor@ has joined #tryton
2009-01-08 23:23 <bechamel`> vengfulsquirrel: i think it should be too difficult to overide the default behaviour for product assignation
2009-01-08 23:24 <vengfulsquirrel> bechamel`: should or shouldn't ?
2009-01-08 23:25 <bechamel`> vengfulsquirrel: all assignation work is mare in assign_try() in stock/product/py, one can imagine to inherit it (based on substitute relation between products)
2009-01-08 23:25 <bechamel`> vengfulsquirrel: sorry, should'nt
2009-01-08 23:25 <bechamel`> hem, shouldn't
2009-01-08 23:27 <vengfulsquirrel> Yeah I was looking at assign_try, but I guess I wasn't sure what would happen when I was selling product A but when doing the packing I was substituting with product B.
2009-01-08 23:27 <vengfulsquirrel> I was more worried about it maybe confusing other modules, like I was selling 10 of product A but _really_ I was shipping 10 of product B.
2009-01-08 23:29 <bechamel`> vengfulsquirrel: maybe there could be a problem if the invoice is generated after the packing
2009-01-08 23:32 <bechamel`> vengfulsquirrel: but this can be easily tested, by changing "by hand" the product on the packing before assigning
2009-01-08 23:34 -!- mrcast( has left #tryton
2009-01-08 23:39 <bechamel`> vengfulsquirrel: i tested and effectively if the invoice are created "On Packing Sent", the sale order consider that all product haven't been sent yet and it doesn't create the invoice. And it re-create an new customer packing with missing products (wrt the sale order)
2009-01-08 23:41 <vengfulsquirrel> bechamel`: Thanks! So that means I'd have to do more than just change around assign_try to plug in substitute products.
2009-01-08 23:44 <vengfulsquirrel> I think I was actually over-thinking my problem and I can do it with how tryton works now just with a little more work on the user's side.
2009-01-08 23:44 <bechamel`> vengfulsquirrel: yes, but i don't see what to change on the sale order to handle this
2009-01-08 23:45 <bechamel`> vengfulsquirrel: the biggest problem I see is: which price to put on the invoice ?
2009-01-08 23:47 <vengfulsquirrel> bechamel`: Oh well the substitute products wouldn't be saleable, I think I'm trying to solve my problem in the wrong area.
2009-01-08 23:48 <vengfulsquirrel> What does it mean for a product to be Consumable ?
2009-01-08 23:49 <bechamel`> vengfulsquirrel: it's a product that is stored (not a service) but on for which we do not want to track stock quantities
2009-01-08 23:50 <bechamel`> vengfulsquirrel: like small office furniture

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