IRC logs of #tryton for Thursday, 2012-04-12 #tryton log beginning Thu Apr 12 00:00:02 CEST 2012
2012-04-12 00:45 -!- X-tonic(~bha1@ has left #tryton
2012-04-12 12:15 -!- X-tonic(~bha1@ has left #tryton
2012-04-12 14:28 -!- sisalp( has left #tryton
2012-04-12 15:33 -!- Mayank(~mayank@ has left #tryton
2012-04-12 17:03 <sharoonthomas> cedk: ping
2012-04-12 17:04 <cedk> sharoonthomas: pong
2012-04-12 17:04 <sharoonthomas> cedk: i was looking into FODT yesterday since I had switched to libreoffice by coincidence
2012-04-12 17:05 <sharoonthomas> cedk: what is the primary purpose of the switch from ODT to FODT ?
2012-04-12 17:05 <cedk> sharoonthomas: better management in hg
2012-04-12 17:06 <sharoonthomas> cedk: certainly the single XML file structure of FODT is better than binary, but if better management includes easy to follow diffs, it cannot be a guaranteed
2012-04-12 17:06 <sharoonthomas> cedk: i saw that even small changes result in high diffs
2012-04-12 17:07 <sharoonthomas> cedk: and we certainly don't want to be writing FODT by hand ?
2012-04-12 17:07 <cedk> sharoonthomas: why not
2012-04-12 17:07 <cedk> sharoonthomas: indeed the idea is for management
2012-04-12 17:08 <cedk> sharoonthomas: so if you can fix by editing why not
2012-04-12 17:08 <cedk> sharoonthomas: and also being able to apply patches
2012-04-12 17:08 <sharoonthomas> cedk: apply patches is a yes
2012-04-12 17:09 <sharoonthomas> cedk: ok, now it makes sense and can relatorio make PDFs from fodt just like it does with odt ?
2012-04-12 17:10 <cedk> sharoonthomas: relatorio doesn't make PDF at all
2012-04-12 17:10 <sharoonthomas> cedk: well what i meant was with pyuno
2012-04-12 17:10 <cedk> sharoonthomas: the goal is to have fodt as template but it must generate odt
2012-04-12 17:11 <sharoonthomas> cedk: ok
2012-04-12 17:12 <cedk> sharoonthomas: indeed it is the same idea than last year
2012-04-12 17:12 <cedk> sharoonthomas: by the way, I have made some progress on the ActiveRecord pattern
2012-04-12 17:13 <cedk> sharoonthomas: I think I could show a patch in 2 weeks (just after the release)
2012-04-12 17:13 <sharoonthomas> cedk: as far as i understand odt is just splitting the main <office:document> sub components into separate files and zipping them together, but there is no library to do that
2012-04-12 17:14 <cedk> sharoonthomas: yes I did not find any
2012-04-12 17:14 <sharoonthomas> cedk: great, is there any code already on the Active Record pattern ?
2012-04-12 17:16 <cedk> sharoonthomas: I have a diff of 4k lines but I'm still playing with it
2012-04-12 17:16 <sharoonthomas> cedk: is there a lot of API changes ?
2012-04-12 17:16 <cedk> sharoonthomas: I have the idea to remove ids and just use list of records
2012-04-12 17:17 <cedk> sharoonthomas: yes almost all because it will become classmethod instead of instance
2012-04-12 17:17 <cedk> sharoonthomas: but the convertion is not harder than the removal of cursor, user, context
2012-04-12 17:17 <sharoonthomas> cedk: ok, it should be simple if its just a matter of decorating methods
2012-04-12 17:18 <sharoonthomas> cedk: but can you write an example of how you would create a new record ?
2012-04-12 17:18 <cedk> sharoonthomas: Invoice.create({...})
2012-04-12 17:19 <cedk> sharoonthomas: and returns a instance of Invoice
2012-04-12 17:19 <cedk> but I'm also thinking about having also: Invoice(**values).save()
2012-04-12 17:19 <sharoonthomas> cedk: are the changes written to the DB immediately or is there a second method like save to call ?
2012-04-12 17:20 <cedk> sharoonthomas: the first one is the classic create
2012-04-12 17:21 <cedk> sharoonthomas: but I don't plan yet to have the second one
2012-04-12 17:22 <cedk> sharoonthomas: because it is not really useful
2012-04-12 17:23 <cedk> other idea is to use an instance instead of values in on_change calls
2012-04-12 17:23 <sharoonthomas> cedk: just trying to think how that would be handled in the WS
2012-04-12 17:24 <cedk> sharoonthomas: what is WS?
2012-04-12 17:24 <sharoonthomas> cedk: at the moment the dispatcher directly returns the return value from a model's rpc method
2012-04-12 17:24 <sharoonthomas> cedk: WS == Web Services
2012-04-12 17:25 <cedk> sharoonthomas: ok, I'm thinking about extending _rpc to include some kind of configuration like:
2012-04-12 17:25 <sharoonthomas> cedk: so probably we might have to do the type magic in the JSON Encoder/Decoder to convert a model instance to the integer id of the record ?
2012-04-12 17:25 <cedk> ids convertion into instance position
2012-04-12 17:25 <cedk> convertion of return values etc.
2012-04-12 17:25 <cedk> sharoonthomas: no I don't want to manage it at this level
2012-04-12 17:26 <sharoonthomas> cedk: ok
2012-04-12 17:27 <sharoonthomas> cedk: i suggest that we leave the rpc methods and return values as such (except for making them class methods)
2012-04-12 17:27 <sharoonthomas> cedk: which means that the web service api works as such without any change
2012-04-12 17:27 <cedk> sharoonthomas: don't agree
2012-04-12 17:28 <cedk> sharoonthomas: we must not design methods for RPC
2012-04-12 17:28 <cedk> sharoonthomas: it is the RPC that must adapt to methods
2012-04-12 17:28 <sharoonthomas> cedk: i think the active record pattern is more important within the server side code and we use design pattern 2 you proposed
2012-04-12 17:30 <sharoonthomas> cedk: Model instances (record) would feel more like how the browse records work now
2012-04-12 17:30 <cedk> sharoonthomas: yes indeed it just the merge of both class
2012-04-12 17:31 <sharoonthomas> cedk: just trying to think how function field methods and on_change events which work on multiple records work
2012-04-12 17:32 <cedk> sharoonthomas: they will not, you must save to have function fields
2012-04-12 17:33 <cedk> sharoonthomas: but as I said for me, it is not an important feature to save a instance
2012-04-12 17:37 <sharoonthomas> cedk: i agree with you that save itself is counter intuitive to our current way of working because it introduces another "transaction" on the record level before which data is written
2012-04-12 17:54 <cedk> sharoonthomas: the idea about using some kind of instance for on_change is to be able to call it with instance on server side
2012-04-12 17:55 <sharoonthomas> cedk: call it with instance meaning as a method without ids as args correct ?
2012-04-12 17:55 <cedk> sharoonthomas: with a instance instead of values
2012-04-12 17:57 <sharoonthomas> cedk: i am not sure how rpc will handle that, consuming and returning an instance ?
2012-04-12 17:58 <cedk> sharoonthomas: similar on how it is done for wizards
2012-04-12 17:59 <sharoonthomas> cedk: ok, i will wait for the patch to be out :) excited to test it out
2012-04-12 20:10 <MarKsaitis> if I want full server packages, do I install modules-all and tryton-server? ubuntu precise here
2012-04-12 20:14 <Telesight> MarKsaitis: Does this installation procedure help you?:
2012-04-12 20:15 <MarKsaitis> Telesight, im just about to hit yes on the install. it says that it has some sugested and recommended packages, but I have no clue whether they will get installed by default using apt-get
2012-04-12 20:16 <MarKsaitis> whats proxmox
2012-04-12 20:16 <MarKsaitis> and do I need it
2012-04-12 20:16 <MarKsaitis> proxmos is like vbox isnt it. I dont need it then
2012-04-12 20:17 <Telesight> Proxmox VE creates a virtual environment, you can use OpenVZ containers .
2012-04-12 20:19 <Telesight> You do not need it, but it is handy if you have an empty machine somewhere and want to install without risks ...
2012-04-12 20:21 <MarKsaitis> ok
2012-04-12 20:26 <MarKsaitis> Telesight, no, that doc is more or less useless
2012-04-12 20:27 <MarKsaitis> I am installing thru on ubuntu using apt-get and premade packages since I want it packaged so I can update it all when updating the system. I need to know what packages to install and how to proceed in order to configure it properly
2012-04-12 20:27 <MarKsaitis> :)
2012-04-12 20:29 <Telesight> MarkSaitis: this procedure does this all for you ... so not so useless as you think ;-)
2012-04-12 20:30 <MarKsaitis> so using this procedure I still have the option to update software using apt-get update - the normal system update procedure which updates all soft?
2012-04-12 20:31 <MarKsaitis> but why have extra other different of install procedures for diff soft, when you can use native OS installers and packaging etc?
2012-04-12 20:34 <MarKsaitis> Telesight, anyways. The question here is this: what do I do next when I install it using apt-get?
2012-04-12 20:39 <Telesight> Marksaites: Say there is a serious bug in the software (not imaginable in Tryton ofcourse ...), then you have to wait on the new packages before you can solve your problem and this can take a long time ...
2012-04-12 20:44 <MarKsaitis> so what is the point in having all these packages?
2012-04-12 20:45 <MarKsaitis> Telesight,
2012-04-12 20:52 -!- Mayank(~mayank@ has left #tryton
2012-04-12 20:53 <caravel> MarKsaitis: debian stable packages are still on 1.6 series, which is ... 3 series behind (1.8, 2.0, current is 2.2)
2012-04-12 20:53 <caravel> (hi all)
2012-04-12 20:54 <MarKsaitis> caravel, im on ubuntu 12.04 - it has 2.2
2012-04-12 20:54 <caravel> MarKsaitis: well, that sounds better - so far :)
2012-04-12 20:55 <MarKsaitis> so, I dunno what to do after installing packages
2012-04-12 20:55 <MarKsaitis> and I still dont understand why u lot here devs dont use standard OS packaging stuff so everything is standardised... there is never a good point using custom crap for every app.... I mean if u have many apps, why have many install and maintain methods to waste time
2012-04-12 20:57 <caravel> MarKsaitis: fyi, however, current Ubuntu LTS is still 10.04 and there, tryton packages are still on... 1.4 series. So you might want to consider again Telesight comment, thinking about the future
2012-04-12 20:58 <MarKsaitis> caravel, im on precise, it will be released in 2 weeks time
2012-04-12 20:58 <MarKsaitis> tryton 2.2
2012-04-12 20:59 <caravel> MarKsaitis: yes, but then, maybe it won't be upgraded any further along with new tryton releases, that's the point. Installing from a distro package binds you to the distro release
2012-04-12 21:00 <MarKsaitis> I dont get it. People in the distro chann say that it is a good thing, now u say that it is a bad thing, OMG :)
2012-04-12 21:01 <MarKsaitis> I am good with 2.2 as soon as I will get bug fixes and security updates for it as distro says
2012-04-12 21:01 <caravel> MarKsaitis: No, that's not what I am saying. I tend to agree with you, the ideal would be that *someone* would provide a repository for your distro, kept sync'd with upstream releases
2012-04-12 21:04 <MarKsaitis> hmz
2012-04-12 21:05 <caravel> MarKsaitis: besides, a debian package is "one standard OS packaging". But then, so is an ubuntu package. And so is a fedora package. And so is... (put here another distro)
2012-04-12 21:06 <caravel> MarKsaitis: the whole subject is not that easy to discuss :)
2012-04-12 21:10 <Telesight> Marksaitis: I understand your frustration; a nice system you want to use and then you are "forced" to do a whole installation procedure ...
2012-04-12 21:12 <Telesight> Unfortunately there is more than one distro to create packages, so it needs a lot of time to prepare the system for every distro ...
2012-04-12 21:12 <caravel> MarKsaitis: then, easy_install method *is* a standard way, too (the Python one) :D
2012-04-12 21:13 <MarKsaitis> so, hmz, I dont understand why somebdy makes these packages if they are not recommended to use
2012-04-12 21:13 <Telesight> But development of the system goes on in the meantime and updates must be packaged too...
2012-04-12 21:14 <caravel> MarKsaitis: they *are* recommended and it's great these people do them. The question is, have they been always updated as they should have (yet) ?
2012-04-12 21:14 <MarKsaitis> ok then, pls give me a normal way where I can make sure it's always stable updated, managed and with possibilities to install dependencies and remove all that stuff in case if I want uninstall/reinstall?
2012-04-12 21:15 <caravel> MarKsaitis: anyway, the recommended way is (as per tryton wiki), the distro packages. Just be aware, you might have to keep up manually in the future
2012-04-12 21:16 <caravel> MarKsaitis: or push/contribute so your distro keeps up to date with tryton series
2012-04-12 21:17 <MarKsaitis> ok, so does your custom method install dependencies for me?
2012-04-12 21:18 <caravel> MarKsaitis: it's all described here (I don't pretend to validate accuracy in there, I'm just a future tryton user myself ^^) Have you read this in full ?
2012-04-12 21:18 <caravel> MarKsaitis: (Ubuntu page points to that Debian one)
2012-04-12 21:21 <MarKsaitis> anyways, I am so confused I have no idea whats best to do =)))
2012-04-12 21:22 <Telesight> Marksaitis: You talk about Ubuntu 12.04 but that is a desktop beta.
2012-04-12 21:23 <MarKsaitis> privatekey = /etc/ssl/private/ssl-cert-snakeoil.key
2012-04-12 21:23 <MarKsaitis> certificate = /etc/ssl/certs/ssl-cert-snakeoil.pem
2012-04-12 21:23 <MarKsaitis> which part in that guide shows me how to generate these certs?
2012-04-12 21:24 <MarKsaitis> Telesight, its a server beta too, im on it, its all out in 2 weeks, and if I keep updating my system in the next 2 weeks, I automatically get upgraded to 12.04 LTS. It's all the same stuff, same versions, I will just get updates for the next 2 weeks
2012-04-12 21:26 <MarKsaitis> sorry i was out for 1 sec, might have missed smth
2012-04-12 21:26 <Telesight> Marksaitis: Yes but a new server version does not garantee that it will work with a certain system; you have system requirements.
2012-04-12 21:27 <MarKsaitis> ubuntu 12.04 is now frozen. Ubuntu devs said it's ok to use it now and I need to update often and I will be just fine when it comes out after in 2 weeks
2012-04-12 21:30 <Telesight> Marksaitis: You want to have grip on your production or test installation, so that is why there are manual steps and not the easy package installation ...
2012-04-12 21:31 <MarKsaitis> sugests installing from package manager Telesight , should I not use it then?
2012-04-12 21:31 <MarKsaitis> I want to have simple install and simple update and just use the application, thats all what I care :)
2012-04-12 21:31 <MarKsaitis> as a consumer
2012-04-12 21:33 <Telesight> Marksaitis: I understand your longing for ease and simplicity, but Tryton is not a Packman game so it needs a little attention to install ...
2012-04-12 21:34 <MarKsaitis> so is option 1 any good?
2012-04-12 21:35 <Telesight> For testing that is ok.
2012-04-12 21:35 <MarKsaitis> I want for production
2012-04-12 21:35 <MarKsaitis> with SSL
2012-04-12 21:35 <MarKsaitis> future updates. And a method which installs dependencies and also keeps them updated too
2012-04-12 21:37 <MarKsaitis> why isnt there a small simple page covering your custom method for production then having these sections: 1. Installation + SSL 2. Default configuration 3. Maintenance and updates afterward
2012-04-12 21:38 <MarKsaitis> whereas now it's so complicated, I would never know which method is good bad outdated or recommended, or production...
2012-04-12 21:39 <MarKsaitis> I find tryton having something to do with python sources, mercurial, google, package managers - everywhere. Like a potato mash :)
2012-04-12 21:41 <caravel> MarKsaitis: and :)
2012-04-12 21:41 <MarKsaitis> also, Telesight if I install it thru package manager, is there an utility I can run which updates the soft for me?
2012-04-12 21:41 <caravel> MarKsaitis: sign in and contribute maybe ?
2012-04-12 21:42 <MarKsaitis> I only just have time to install soft and start using it, mabye in the future. I am only starting myself :)
2012-04-12 21:42 <caravel> MarKsaitis: yes, the package manager will update ... to whatever version your distro will decide to ship as updates
2012-04-12 21:43 <MarKsaitis> caravel, I mean utility within tryton files, which independently updates it of system pack mgr
2012-04-12 21:43 <caravel> MarKsaitis: you seem to misunderstand the role of your distro's package manager. If you install something through it, it is in charge of its updates
2012-04-12 21:44 <MarKsaitis> anyways, what is there proper to u showed me database update. I want software update. What is the recommended production way to keep up to date with the latest stable soft versions, bugfixes etc
2012-04-12 21:44 <MarKsaitis> caravel, ok
2012-04-12 21:45 <MarKsaitis> so anyways, installing tryton using OS pack mgr is only for testing and cant be used for production?
2012-04-12 21:45 <caravel> MarKsaitis: example : I had installed Enigmail (a GPG addon to Thunderbird) from Fedora repository. Then I came to realize I wasn't recieving updates. So, I took the decision to uninstall it, and reinstall it from Thunderbird's addon manager...
2012-04-12 21:46 <MarKsaitis> Thats then crap, why the hell to use these stupid pack mgrs if they leave our software out of date - no bugs fixed =))) Just doesnt make sense
2012-04-12 21:46 <caravel> MarKsaitis: for Enigmail the implications were none (its only dep is Thunderbird). For Tryton, you have quite a few deps, eg. python ones
2012-04-12 21:47 <MarKsaitis> so if I install it using OS pack mgr and I see a bug in soft, I am screwed then?
2012-04-12 21:47 <caravel> MarKsaitis: no, it isn't crap :) a lot of users are satisfied with not-always-latest versions, and package managers save a lot of time
2012-04-12 21:48 <caravel> MarKsaitis: no, again you will have 2 options : 1) reinstall from another method 2) contribute/push your distro to update
2012-04-12 21:49 <MarKsaitis> what do u mean contribute? mabye I will be using version 2.2.1 which will have bugs but they will be fixed in 2.2.2
2012-04-12 21:50 <caravel> MarKsaitis: it's all about efforts and contributions, do you get it at the end ? :) This is NOT gratis-sponsored freeware. Someone has to do the work, one way or another. You may be interested in contracting with one of Tryton partners, if all this is a problem for you
2012-04-12 21:50 <caravel> MarKsaitis: by contribute, I mean that even reporting a need/request for some package update, to your distro, is a contribution
2012-04-12 21:51 <MarKsaitis> it isnt a problem, I am just trying to get my head around it and see what is working what is not and what is best
2012-04-12 21:51 <MarKsaitis> caravel, oh ok =)
2012-04-12 21:51 <Telesight> Marksaitis: Packages are perfect to use, but other people than Tryton developers have to create them, so there is always a lag ...
2012-04-12 21:51 <MarKsaitis> but how can I tell to distro that newer package is needed, if a distro is frozen and they cant put new packages =)
2012-04-12 21:52 <caravel> MarKsaitis: for this task (testing/trying/starting), package manager is your best option, as Telesight and I pointed. You can even use neso...
2012-04-12 21:52 <MarKsaitis> no no I want it proper production
2012-04-12 21:53 <caravel> MarKsaitis: Ubuntu LTS 12.04 will have a 5 years life, just like 10.04
2012-04-12 21:54 <Telesight> Marksaitis: I (and others) do not want to be dependend on packages that may or may not be updated for a production system. So me and others wrote there own installation procedure based on stable sources ...
2012-04-12 21:56 <MarKsaitis> ok. What utility/system is used to update production install of tryton then in your recommended case?
2012-04-12 21:57 <Telesight> Marksaitis: Tryton has no update button like some applications have, so you need some code to do this manually ...
2012-04-12 21:58 <MarKsaitis> what code? which utility?
2012-04-12 21:58 <MarKsaitis> so it is complicated to update it?
2012-04-12 22:02 <Telesight> Marksaitis: I use a script in my procedure to update ...
2012-04-12 22:02 <Telesight>
2012-04-12 22:02 <MarKsaitis> what is the official way to update for consumers then? I need such an update where I launch something, it finishes and I am ready to continue using the software, this is what is important
2012-04-12 22:05 <Telesight>
2012-04-12 22:07 <MarKsaitis> Telesight, but that is an update of database?
2012-04-12 22:07 <MarKsaitis> not the soft, is it?
2012-04-12 22:08 <Telesight> -u all updates all the modules.
2012-04-12 22:09 <Telesight> Both have to be done of course or you get faults ...
2012-04-12 22:13 <MarKsaitis> ok
2012-04-12 22:13 <MarKsaitis> so that also updates bugs in software binaries/system?
2012-04-12 22:18 <Telesight> Marksaitis: Yes it should update to the latest stable software ...
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2012-04-12 22:59 <MarKsaitis> caravel, sharoonthomas which component must be enabled to listen for tryton client connections?
2012-04-12 22:59 <MarKsaitis> jsonrpc or xmlrpc?
2012-04-12 22:59 <sharoonthomas> MarKsaitis: depends on the version
2012-04-12 22:59 <MarKsaitis> 2.2
2012-04-12 23:00 <sharoonthomas> MarKsaitis: jsonrpc is the default
2012-04-12 23:00 <MarKsaitis> I have installed, configured database, restarted stuff. json and xml rpcs are enabled. port 8000 and 8069 . Tryton client cant connect to any
2012-04-12 23:00 <sharoonthomas> MarKsaitis: by default the server listens only to localhost
2012-04-12 23:00 <MarKsaitis> sharoonthomas, how do I troubleshoot whether tryton is connected to the database?
2012-04-12 23:01 <MarKsaitis> oh ok
2012-04-12 23:01 <sharoonthomas> MarKsaitis: are you connecting to localhost or a remote server ?
2012-04-12 23:01 <MarKsaitis> do i care about xmlrpc? why would I need it
2012-04-12 23:01 <MarKsaitis> remote
2012-04-12 23:01 <sharoonthomas> MarKsaitis: you don't need XML RPC unless you have some application which uses it (triton client since 2.2 does not)
2012-04-12 23:02 <sharoonthomas> MarKsaitis: you can use `jsonrpc = *:8000` in the configuration and restart (if you want it to listen on all interfaces)
2012-04-12 23:03 <MarKsaitis> sharoonthomas, I have forwarded port 8000 thru putty
2012-04-12 23:04 <sharoonthomas> SSH port forwarding ?
2012-04-12 23:04 <MarKsaitis> yeah, tunneling
2012-04-12 23:04 <MarKsaitis> thru ssh
2012-04-12 23:04 <sharoonthomas> MarKsaitis: that should do the job and then you should be able to connect now to localhost:8000 from tryton client
2012-04-12 23:05 <MarKsaitis> I know I should, but I am not =)
2012-04-12 23:05 <MarKsaitis> i didnt even enter password, but client says couldnt connect
2012-04-12 23:07 <MarKsaitis> hmz
2012-04-12 23:09 <MarKsaitis> ok it works, it was only wrong tunneling
2012-04-12 23:09 <MarKsaitis> I want to enable encryption, how do I go about it? sharoonthomas
2012-04-12 23:12 <sharoonthomas> MarKsaitis: enable json roc ssl and put the certificate /etc/ssl/trytond/server.pem and key in /etc/ssl/trytond/server.key
2012-04-12 23:12 <MarKsaitis> this guide says use .pam extensions
2012-04-12 23:13 <sharoonthomas> MarKsaitis: I am leaving for home now, i'll be online again in an hour. good luck
2012-04-12 23:13 <MarKsaitis> sharoonthomas, thanx, thats good enough, have a nice trip
2012-04-12 23:14 <sharoonthomas> MarKsaitis: this site has the instruction to create self signed ssl
2012-04-12 23:30 <MarKsaitis> does anyone spots anything bad here? after srv restart, tryton still only listens on 8000
2012-04-12 23:32 <MarKsaitis> and no errors in the log
2012-04-12 23:32 <MarKsaitis> pls help
2012-04-12 23:34 <MarKsaitis> all deps satisfied
2012-04-12 23:36 -!- X-tonic(~bha1@ has left #tryton

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