IRC logs of #tryton for Thursday, 2012-04-12 #tryton log beginning Thu Apr 12 00:00:02 CEST 2012
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sharoonthomascedk: ping17:03
cedksharoonthomas: pong17:04
sharoonthomascedk: i was looking into FODT yesterday since I had switched to libreoffice by coincidence17:04
sharoonthomascedk: what is the primary purpose of the switch from ODT to FODT ?17:05
cedksharoonthomas: better management in hg17:05
sharoonthomascedk: certainly the single XML file structure of FODT is better than binary, but if better management includes easy to follow diffs, it cannot be a guaranteed17:06
sharoonthomascedk: i saw that even small changes result in high diffs17:06
sharoonthomascedk: and we certainly don't want to be writing FODT by hand ?17:07
cedksharoonthomas: why not17:07
cedksharoonthomas: indeed the idea is for management17:07
cedksharoonthomas: so if you can fix by editing why not17:08
cedksharoonthomas: and also being able to apply patches17:08
sharoonthomascedk: apply patches is a yes17:08
sharoonthomascedk: ok, now it makes sense and can relatorio make PDFs from fodt just like it does with odt ?17:09
cedksharoonthomas: relatorio doesn't make PDF at all17:10
sharoonthomascedk: well what i meant was with pyuno17:10
cedksharoonthomas: the goal is to have fodt as template but it must generate odt17:10
sharoonthomascedk: ok17:11
cedksharoonthomas: indeed it is the same idea than last year17:12
cedksharoonthomas: by the way, I have made some progress on the ActiveRecord pattern17:12
cedksharoonthomas: I think I could show a patch in 2 weeks (just after the release)17:13
sharoonthomascedk: as far as i understand odt is just splitting the main <office:document> sub components into separate files and zipping them together, but there is no library to do that17:13
cedksharoonthomas: yes I did not find any17:14
sharoonthomascedk: great, is there any code already on the Active Record pattern ?17:14
cedksharoonthomas: I have a diff of 4k lines but I'm still playing with it17:16
sharoonthomascedk: is there a lot of API changes ?17:16
cedksharoonthomas: I have the idea to remove ids and just use list of records17:16
cedksharoonthomas: yes almost all because it will become classmethod instead of instance17:17
cedksharoonthomas: but the convertion is not harder than the removal of cursor, user, context17:17
sharoonthomascedk: ok, it should be simple if its just a  matter of decorating methods17:17
sharoonthomascedk: but can you write an example of how you would create a new record ?17:18
cedksharoonthomas: Invoice.create({...})17:18
cedksharoonthomas: and returns a instance of Invoice17:19
cedkbut I'm also thinking about having also: Invoice(**values).save()17:19
sharoonthomascedk: are the changes written to the DB immediately or is there a second method like save to call ?17:19
cedksharoonthomas: the first one is the classic create17:20
cedksharoonthomas: but I don't plan yet to have the second one17:21
cedksharoonthomas: because it is not really useful17:22
cedkother idea is to use an instance instead of values in on_change calls17:23
sharoonthomascedk: just trying to think how that would be handled in the WS17:23
cedksharoonthomas: what is WS?17:24
sharoonthomascedk: at the moment the dispatcher directly returns the return value from a model's rpc method17:24
sharoonthomascedk: WS == Web Services17:24
cedksharoonthomas: ok, I'm thinking about extending _rpc to include some kind of configuration like:17:25
sharoonthomascedk: so probably we might have to do the type magic in the JSON Encoder/Decoder to convert a model instance to the integer id of the record ?17:25
cedkids convertion into instance position17:25
cedkconvertion of return values etc.17:25
cedksharoonthomas: no I don't want to manage it at this level17:25
sharoonthomascedk: ok17:26
sharoonthomascedk: i suggest that we leave the rpc methods and return values as such (except for making them class methods)17:27
sharoonthomascedk: which means that the web service api works as such without any change17:27
cedksharoonthomas: don't agree17:27
cedksharoonthomas: we must not design methods for RPC17:28
cedksharoonthomas: it is the RPC that must adapt to methods17:28
sharoonthomascedk: i think the active record pattern is more important within the server side code and we use design pattern 2 you proposed17:28
sharoonthomascedk: Model instances (record)  would feel more like how the browse records work now17:30
cedksharoonthomas: yes indeed it just the merge of both class17:30
sharoonthomascedk: just trying to think how function field methods and on_change events which work on multiple records work17:31
cedksharoonthomas: they will not, you must save to have function fields17:32
cedksharoonthomas: but as I said for me, it is not an important feature to save a instance17:33
sharoonthomascedk: i agree with you that save itself is counter intuitive to our current way of working because it introduces another "transaction" on the record level before which data is written17:37
cedksharoonthomas: the idea about using some kind of instance for on_change is to be able to call it with instance on server side17:54
sharoonthomascedk: call it with instance meaning as a method without ids as args correct ?17:55
cedksharoonthomas: with a instance instead of values17:55
sharoonthomascedk: i am not sure how rpc will handle that, consuming and returning an instance ?17:57
cedksharoonthomas: similar on how it is done for wizards17:58
sharoonthomascedk: ok, i will wait for the patch to be out :) excited to test it out17:59
MarKsaitisif I want full server packages, do I install modules-all and tryton-server? ubuntu precise here20:10
TelesightMarKsaitis: Does this installation procedure help you?:
MarKsaitisTelesight, im just about to hit yes on the install. it says that it has some sugested and recommended packages, but I have no clue whether they will get installed by default using apt-get20:15
MarKsaitiswhats proxmox20:16
MarKsaitisand do I need it20:16
MarKsaitisproxmos is like vbox isnt it. I dont need it then20:16
TelesightProxmox VE creates a virtual environment, you can use OpenVZ containers .20:17
TelesightYou do not need it, but it is handy if you have an empty machine somewhere and want to install without risks ...20:19
MarKsaitisTelesight, no, that doc is more or less useless20:26
MarKsaitisI am installing thru on ubuntu using apt-get and premade packages since I want it packaged so I can update it all when updating the system. I need to know what packages to install and how to proceed in order to configure it properly20:27
TelesightMarkSaitis: this procedure does this all for you ... so not so useless as you think ;-)20:29
MarKsaitisso using this procedure I still have the option to update software using apt-get update - the normal system update procedure which updates all soft?20:30
MarKsaitisbut why have extra other different of install procedures for diff soft, when you can use native OS installers and packaging etc?20:31
MarKsaitisTelesight, anyways. The question here is this: what do I do next when I install it using apt-get?20:34
TelesightMarksaites: Say there is  a serious bug in the software (not imaginable in Tryton ofcourse ...), then you have to wait on the new packages before you can solve your problem and this can take a long time  ...20:39
MarKsaitisso what is the point in having all these packages?20:44
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caravelMarKsaitis: debian stable packages are still on 1.6 series, which is ... 3 series behind (1.8, 2.0, current is 2.2)20:53
caravel(hi all)20:53
MarKsaitiscaravel, im on ubuntu 12.04 - it has 2.220:54
caravelMarKsaitis: well, that sounds better - so far :)20:54
MarKsaitisso, I dunno what to do after installing packages20:55
MarKsaitisand I still dont understand why u lot here devs dont use standard OS packaging stuff so everything is standardised... there is never a good point using custom crap for every app.... I mean if u have many apps, why have many install and maintain methods to waste time20:55
caravelMarKsaitis: fyi, however, current Ubuntu LTS is still 10.04 and there, tryton packages are still on... 1.4 series. So you might want to consider again Telesight comment, thinking about the future20:57
MarKsaitiscaravel, im on precise, it will be released in 2 weeks time20:58
MarKsaitistryton 2.220:58
caravelMarKsaitis: yes, but then, maybe it won't be upgraded any further along with new tryton releases, that's the point. Installing from a distro package binds you to the distro release20:59
MarKsaitisI dont get it. People in the distro chann say that it is a good thing, now u say that it is a bad thing, OMG :)21:00
MarKsaitisI am good with 2.2 as soon as I will get bug fixes and security updates for it as distro says21:01
caravelMarKsaitis: No, that's not what I am saying. I tend to agree with you, the ideal would be that *someone* would provide a repository for your distro, kept sync'd with upstream releases21:01
caravelMarKsaitis: besides, a debian package is "one standard OS packaging". But then, so is an ubuntu package. And so is a fedora package. And so is... (put here another distro)21:05
caravelMarKsaitis: the whole subject is not that easy to discuss :)21:06
TelesightMarksaitis: I understand your frustration; a nice system you want to use and then you are "forced" to do a whole installation procedure ...21:10
TelesightUnfortunately there is more than one distro to create packages, so it needs a lot of time to prepare the system for every distro ...21:12
caravelMarKsaitis: then, easy_install method *is* a standard way, too (the Python one) :D21:12
MarKsaitisso, hmz, I dont understand why somebdy makes these packages if they are not recommended to use21:13
TelesightBut development of the system goes on in the meantime and updates must be packaged too...21:13
caravelMarKsaitis: they *are* recommended and it's great these people do them. The question is, have they been always updated as they should have (yet) ?21:14
MarKsaitisok then, pls give me a normal way where I can make sure it's always stable updated, managed and with possibilities to install dependencies and remove all that stuff in case if I want uninstall/reinstall?21:14
caravelMarKsaitis: anyway, the recommended way is (as per tryton wiki), the distro packages. Just be aware, you might have to keep up manually in the future21:15
caravelMarKsaitis: or push/contribute so your distro keeps up to date with tryton series21:16
MarKsaitisok, so does your custom method install dependencies for me?21:17
caravelMarKsaitis: it's all described here (I don't pretend to validate accuracy in there, I'm just a future tryton user myself ^^) Have you read this in full ?21:18
caravelMarKsaitis: (Ubuntu page points to that Debian one)21:18
MarKsaitisanyways, I am so confused I have no idea whats best to do =)))21:21
TelesightMarksaitis: You talk about Ubuntu 12.04 but that is a desktop beta.21:22
MarKsaitisprivatekey = /etc/ssl/private/ssl-cert-snakeoil.key21:23
MarKsaitiscertificate = /etc/ssl/certs/ssl-cert-snakeoil.pem21:23
MarKsaitiswhich part in that guide shows me how to generate these certs?21:23
MarKsaitisTelesight, its a server beta too, im on it, its all out in 2 weeks, and if I keep updating my system in the next 2 weeks, I automatically get upgraded to 12.04 LTS. It's all the same stuff, same versions, I will just get updates for the next 2 weeks21:24
MarKsaitissorry i was out for 1 sec, might have missed smth21:26
TelesightMarksaitis: Yes but a new server version does not garantee that it will work with  a certain system; you have system requirements.21:26
MarKsaitisubuntu 12.04 is now frozen. Ubuntu devs said it's ok to use it now and I need to update often and I will be just fine when it comes out after in 2 weeks21:27
TelesightMarksaitis: You want to have grip on your production or test installation, so that is why there are manual steps and not the easy package installation ...21:30
MarKsaitis sugests installing from package manager Telesight , should I not use it then?21:31
MarKsaitisI want to have simple install and simple update and just use the application, thats all what I care :)21:31
MarKsaitisas a consumer21:31
TelesightMarksaitis: I understand your longing for ease and simplicity, but Tryton is not a Packman game so it needs a little attention to install ...21:33
MarKsaitisso is option 1 any good?21:34
TelesightFor testing that is ok.21:35
MarKsaitisI want for production21:35
MarKsaitiswith SSL21:35
MarKsaitisfuture updates. And a method which installs dependencies and also keeps them updated too21:35
MarKsaitiswhy isnt there a small simple page covering your custom method for production then having these sections: 1. Installation + SSL 2. Default configuration 3. Maintenance and updates afterward21:37
MarKsaitiswhereas now it's so complicated, I would never know which method is good bad outdated or recommended, or production...21:38
MarKsaitisI find tryton having something to do with python sources, mercurial, google, package managers - everywhere. Like a potato mash :)21:39
caravelMarKsaitis: and :)21:41
MarKsaitisalso, Telesight if I install it thru package manager, is there an utility I can run which updates the soft for me?21:41
caravelMarKsaitis: sign in and contribute maybe ?21:41
MarKsaitisI only just have time to install soft and start using it, mabye in the future. I am only starting myself :)21:42
caravelMarKsaitis: yes, the package manager will update ... to whatever version your distro will decide to ship as updates21:42
MarKsaitiscaravel, I mean utility within tryton files, which independently updates it of system pack mgr21:43
caravelMarKsaitis: you seem to misunderstand the role of your distro's package manager. If you install something through it, it is in charge of its updates21:43
MarKsaitisanyways, what is there proper to u showed me database update. I want software update. What is the recommended production way to keep up to date with the latest stable soft versions, bugfixes etc21:44
MarKsaitiscaravel, ok21:44
MarKsaitisso anyways, installing tryton using OS pack mgr is only for testing and cant be used for production?21:45
caravelMarKsaitis: example : I had installed Enigmail (a GPG addon to Thunderbird) from Fedora repository. Then I came to realize I wasn't recieving updates. So, I took the decision to uninstall it, and reinstall it from Thunderbird's addon manager...21:45
MarKsaitisThats then crap, why the hell to use these stupid pack mgrs if they leave our software out of date - no bugs fixed =))) Just doesnt make sense21:46
caravelMarKsaitis: for Enigmail the implications were none (its only dep is Thunderbird). For Tryton, you have quite a few deps, eg. python ones21:46
MarKsaitisso if I install it using OS pack mgr and I see a bug in soft, I am screwed then?21:47
caravelMarKsaitis: no, it isn't crap :) a lot of users are satisfied with not-always-latest versions, and package managers save a lot of time21:47
caravelMarKsaitis: no, again you will have 2 options : 1) reinstall from another method 2) contribute/push your distro to update21:48
MarKsaitiswhat do u mean contribute? mabye I will be using version 2.2.1 which will have bugs but they will be fixed in 2.2.221:49
caravelMarKsaitis: it's all about efforts and contributions, do you get it at the end ? :) This is NOT gratis-sponsored freeware. Someone has to do the work, one way or another. You may be interested in contracting with one of Tryton partners, if all this is a problem for you21:50
caravelMarKsaitis: by contribute, I mean that even reporting a need/request for some package update, to your distro, is a contribution21:50
MarKsaitisit isnt a problem, I am just trying to get my head around it and see what is working what is not and what is best21:51
MarKsaitiscaravel, oh ok =)21:51
TelesightMarksaitis: Packages are perfect to use, but other people than Tryton developers have to create them, so there is always a lag ...21:51
MarKsaitisbut how can I tell to distro that newer package is needed, if a distro is frozen and they cant put new packages =)21:51
caravelMarKsaitis: for this task (testing/trying/starting), package manager is your best option, as Telesight and I pointed. You can even use neso...21:52
MarKsaitisno no I want it proper production21:52
caravelMarKsaitis: Ubuntu LTS 12.04 will have a 5 years life, just like 10.0421:53
TelesightMarksaitis: I (and others) do not want to be dependend on packages that may or may not be updated for a production system. So me and others wrote there own installation procedure based on stable sources ...21:54
MarKsaitisok. What utility/system is used to update production install of tryton then in your recommended case?21:56
TelesightMarksaitis: Tryton has no update button like some applications have, so you need some code to do this manually ...21:57
MarKsaitiswhat code? which utility?21:58
MarKsaitisso it is complicated to update it?21:58
TelesightMarksaitis: I use a script in my procedure to update ...22:02
MarKsaitiswhat is the official way to update for consumers then? I need such an update where I launch something, it finishes and I am ready to continue using the software, this is what is important22:02
MarKsaitisTelesight, but that is an update of database?22:07
MarKsaitisnot the soft, is it?22:07
Telesight-u all    updates all the modules.22:08
TelesightBoth have to be done of course or you get faults ...22:09
MarKsaitisso that also updates bugs in software binaries/system?22:13
TelesightMarksaitis: Yes it should update to the latest stable software ...22:18
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MarKsaitiscaravel, sharoonthomas which component must be enabled to listen for tryton client connections?22:59
MarKsaitisjsonrpc or xmlrpc?22:59
sharoonthomasMarKsaitis: depends on the version22:59
sharoonthomasMarKsaitis: jsonrpc is the default23:00
MarKsaitisI have installed, configured database, restarted stuff. json and xml rpcs are enabled. port 8000 and 8069 . Tryton client cant connect to any23:00
sharoonthomasMarKsaitis: by default the server listens only to localhost
MarKsaitissharoonthomas, how do I troubleshoot whether tryton is connected to the database?23:00
MarKsaitisoh ok23:01
sharoonthomasMarKsaitis: are you connecting to localhost or a remote server ?23:01
MarKsaitisdo i care about xmlrpc? why would I need it23:01
sharoonthomasMarKsaitis: you don't need XML RPC unless you have some application which uses it (triton client since 2.2 does not)23:01
sharoonthomasMarKsaitis: you can use `jsonrpc = *:8000` in the configuration and restart (if you want it to listen on all interfaces)23:02
MarKsaitissharoonthomas, I have forwarded port 8000 thru putty23:03
sharoonthomasSSH port forwarding ?23:04
MarKsaitisyeah, tunneling23:04
MarKsaitisthru ssh23:04
sharoonthomasMarKsaitis: that should do the job and then you should be able to connect now to localhost:8000 from tryton client23:04
MarKsaitisI know I should, but I am not =)23:05
MarKsaitisi didnt even enter password, but client says couldnt connect23:05
MarKsaitisok it works, it was only wrong tunneling23:09
MarKsaitisI want to enable encryption, how do I go about it? sharoonthomas23:09
sharoonthomasMarKsaitis: enable json roc ssl and put the certificate /etc/ssl/trytond/server.pem and key in /etc/ssl/trytond/server.key23:12
MarKsaitis this guide says use .pam extensions23:12
sharoonthomasMarKsaitis: I am leaving for home now, i'll be online again in an hour. good luck23:13
MarKsaitissharoonthomas, thanx, thats good enough, have a nice trip23:13
sharoonthomasMarKsaitis: this site has the instruction to create self signed ssl23:14
MarKsaitis does anyone spots anything bad here? after srv restart, tryton still only listens on 800023:30
MarKsaitisand no errors in the log23:32
MarKsaitispls help23:32
MarKsaitisall deps satisfied23:34
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